« Last post by TheLogo on Today at 04:07:55 PM »
Thanks for the great reply. Much appreciated. Now let's debate :D :D
On the competition aspect. While I agree that there is no way to determine if a chang was better then a roddick, your notion of not being able to determine the strength of an era is completely off.
Sure, it is not an exact science, but we can tell a 'weaker' from 'stronger' era, especially from a players perspective and that is all I am referencing.
For example: We can EASILY determine that Roger and Novak are superior to those players named above. And just as easily conclude Fed is greater then everyone outside his era not named Borg, Laver, or Pistol Pete (and those guys are with only the smallest of doubts).
Now take that & apply the fact that Roger was the most consistent player the tour has ever seen bar none and remember:
1) Rafa has had to face this man his ENTIRE career!!
2) Rafa had to face this man through his (Fed's) peak!
The "no holes" references that I was not arguing 'strongest era' ever. Yet pointing out he does not 'suffer' from a weak era argument. He has "no holes" in the era debate.
If you want to argue about era's though, I will argue that his era was the strongest. Unlike your '74 list which quickly has holes (laver way past his prime, bjorg baby stepping into his and neither was in 23 consecutive Grand Slam Semi's like a certain someone was anyways) Rafa has never had one 'easy' year let alone an 'era'
Let's not forget Djokovic, who may end up passing Borg on the Slam list, also peaked THROUGH Rafa's career.
So case closed, Rafa is bulletproof there.
Next issue: H2H does matter. 50 years later everyone remembers that Bill Russell wiped the floor with Chamberlain. And this type of dominance will hold in tennis.
The h2h you reference is weak in comparison. You are talking about Orantes vs Vilas?? First off, neither of those players are the level of a Federer or Nadal on any stage. And they didn't meat that many times.
Novak, Rog and Rafa (due to their excellence) have faced each other NUMEROUS times. And on the biggest of stages -> GRAND SLAMS! Rafa has face Roger 11 times in Grand Slams alone. You are talking about guys who face each other 11 times in their career.
Plus, the moments, want to reference that more. you think people aren't going to remember what is called the "Greatest Tennis Match Ever" of Rafa vs Fed at Wimby 2008. Or, as was pointed out earlier, the Fed - Rafa final at the 2009 Aussie Open Final??
You think they won't remember who was the victor of both those matches and that the guy who won those also wiped the floor with the other guy on Clay?
I think you are not giving enough credit. They will indeed remember that. Even nowadays I hear about the Lendl - McEnroe Final in every argument about those two and it always comes down to Lendl's superior H2H in GS's.