Author Topic: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie  (Read 32008 times)

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Offline Swish

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #180 on: September 25, 2008, 09:13:20 PM »
Here's an article I thought was interesting and has some bull in it but some true things to, in particlular Obama's inexperience. There are some who believe his resume is quite impressive still, I am trying to change that.  :cool:

Washington (The Weekly Standard) Vol. 014, Issue 02 - 9/22/2008 - Historians looking back on these tumultuous times will no doubt argue over the precise date on which the Age of Palin began. Her speech at the Republican National Convention on September 3 certainly catapulted her to national renown. But there is a good case to be made for her introductory appearance in Dayton, Ohio, five days before.
 
It's all there: You have the same poise and panache Palin exhibited at the convention. You have the self-assurance of a champion high-school athlete who went on to bigger and better things (unlike in the gloomy Democratic, Bruce Springsteen version of life, in which it's all downhill after your Glory Days). There's the ability to deliver a barb with a smile. And above all, that day inaugurated arguably the most incoherent and blubbering partisan response to a candidate in the history of American politics--against which the charms of the candidate stood out even more clearly.

Let's get this straight: Your party has just nominated for president a fellow who has been elected exactly once to the United States Senate, in an uncompetitive race, following a garden-variety stint in a state legislature. And your response to the GOP nominee's choice for vice president--someone who has been elected once as governor following a stint as a small town mayor--is to decry the lack of experience? Nobody ever said Barack Obama was unqualified for the No. 2 spot on the ticket.

Had Hillary Clinton won the nomination and selected Obama as her running mate--which, being a savvy politician, she would certainly have done, in order to fire up his 18 million primary supporters--Obama would have been perfectly positioned. Either he would be preparing himself as vice president for his run for the Oval Office eight years hence. Or he would be experienced and tested in a national campaign that he would never be held responsible for losing, with a fundraising base beyond the imagination of Croesus. Instead, it's McCain-Palin with the wind at their backs, and Palin who is being prepared as the outstanding future prospect for her party.

Now, you might think it hypocritical to criticize the inexperience of a vice presidential nominee who has similar experience to your presidential nominee, but that's just a failure of the imagination. Indeed, hypocrisy was the strange charge Democrats decided to make against McCain and Palin: Having run against Obama all summer for his lack of experience and accomplishment, how dare John McCain pick as his running mate someone with (ahem) experience comparable to that of the Democratic candidate for president McCain had been criticizing?

Well, maybe because it is not a sign of the strength of a candidate at the top of a ticket to need the experience of Joe Biden (or Dick Cheney) in order to allay concerns that he's not quite up to some aspects of the job. And, contrariwise, it is a sign of strength at the top when the nominee can look to the future and make a priority of party-building. Does anybody think that if Obama loses, he will have left his party in a stronger position by advancing the prospects of Joe Biden? Fortunately for Democrats, at least they've got Hillary in the wings.

But these weren't the only hypocrisies in the air. Remember reading the discussions of Vice President Al Gore's parenting skills in all the papers the day after his teenage son got busted for dope at high school? No? That would be because Gore called around to all the papers (including the Washington Times, where I was editorial page editor at the time) and asked us not to publish it, kids being kids and being owed some privacy. The newspapers didn't. That was then: Given a preposterous Internet rumor that Sarah Palin was never pregnant with her four-month-old baby but faked it to cover up for her daughter, Bristol was fair game. This was a judgment shared among Democrats and, coincidentally, the media (the same ones who were also all over the John Edwards love-child story, remember?).

And so Democrats started pointing at the stunning "hypocrisy" of McCain putting Palin on the ticket in spite of her pregnant daughter. Shouldn't all the GOP talk about family values and abstinence education have disqualified Palin? Because, after all, Bristol is getting married and keeping the baby, and if that isn't a sure disqualification for someone's mother for the vice presidency, what is?

Plus, Sarah Palin, we've been informed endlessly, is a hypocrite with a capital H. In all the obvious ways, such as being opposed to women's rights while still having a career. Democrats have been at the forefront of cheering women on to break supposed glass ceilings, but only the right kind of women, which you can be pretty sure a Republican woman isn't.

Then there's all the pro-life business: It just took one columnist in Salon to expose the hypocrisy there: Palin had her baby tested for Down syndrome, and then--had the baby! If she were really pro-life, there wouldn't have been any reason to have the test. As Rahul K. Parikh, M.D., explained:

We could ask, given that Palin had no doubts about seeing her pregnancy through, why she bothered to take a genetic test. Why not, as you might expect a woman in her position and with her outspoken beliefs to do, decline any testing or counseling? Of course, it seems very reasonable to want to know about the health of your baby and to have time to prepare (emotionally and otherwise) for a baby that may have a genetic disorder. But that doesn't negate the fact that by having a blood test, Palin was given a choice about what to do. .  .  . Her supporters say that Trig signals that she practices what she preaches. Her decision to make her own choice but not grant it to others is a sign of her hypocrisy.

So let's see if the pro-lifers can get this straight for a change: If you are going to have the baby anyway, you are not entitled to information about its health (even though the desire for such information is "very reasonable"), because some people who are not pro-life use such information as a basis for deciding whether to terminate their pregnancies. Got it?

But the most stunning hypocrisy of all, from the point of view of most Democrats and, coincidentally, the media again, was that McCain had promised a vice presidential nominee qualified for the job and then undertook such a haphazard, last-minute, incompetent vetting process that he found out all the things that Democrats and the media are so exercised about. And he went ahead with Sarah Palin anyway!

And just look at the bitter fruit McCain has reaped for all his "hypocrisies": Palin has helped propel him ahead of Obama in national polls for the first time. Fifty-two percent of respondents in a Pew survey think she is ready to be president now. If people could vote only for vice president, they favor her over Biden 53-44 in a CNN poll. And the unknown governor of two weeks before is now the most popular Republican politician in the country.


Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #181 on: September 25, 2008, 09:13:47 PM »
Swish,

I’m sorry but you really need to tune in, you‘re flailing all over the place. 2 years ago the press and members of the Democratic party were practically hounding Senator Obama to throw his hat into the race for 2008. So you’re totally off base …… again.

Next, Obama has served in the Illinois state legislature for 8 years. If Obama becomes President, he will have spent more time serving as a state legislator than anyone who has occupied the White House since Abraham Lincoln. He has also been a senator for the past 4 years. He is a graduate of Columbia university and Harvard law and served as President of the Harvard Law review(this alone should prove that he is no dummy). Before he became involved in politics, he was a community organizer, a civil rights attorney and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago.


Obama is one of the few Senators to serve on three of the four Senate Committees dealing with foreign policy issues including the Foreign Relations; Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs; and Veterans' Affairs committees and he is the Chair of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Relations which is responsible fore U.S. relations with European countries, the European Union, and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. So cut the crap Swish.

Please do not continue to dredge up Hillary Clinton’s campaign failures. Aside from the Bosnia fiasco the most ridiculous claim she made which caused her to lose any ounce of credibility, was her insistence that her years as first lady prepared her for the role of commander and chief. Hillary did nothing significant as first lady and her White House files prove that. Lying in bed with the President doesn’t prepare you for the Presidency( even if it did she still wouldn‘t be qualified). If I were a woman that would have been most offensive. It’s called sleeping your way to the top, talk about setting back the movement. According to the logic of her followers(you) Laura Bush is prepared to be the President of the United States. After all she is a two-term first lady. Bush 2012!

Also by your logic any bum off the street is fit for the Presidency. You seem to believe that the President doesn’t have to know anything at all, it’s all about their advisors. Well, I hate to break it to you, but while the President doesn’t have to be an economic expert, he/she needs to at least have workable knowledge of the subject to even know what advise to accept as legitimate and McCain has admitted that he doesn‘t. This is why were  in the mess we’re in now, because we have a President that doesn’t know crap.


You also seem to think the length of time served in Washington somehow translates into competence.  Well, if that’s the case write in Senator Robert Byrd’s  name on your Presidential ballot, after all he is the longest serving Senator in US history. 

John McCain is at least 25 years older than Senator Obama and has served in Washington twice as along with nothing much to show for it, other than to show that he‘s been part of the problem. Which is why his running as a war hero rather than based on his Senate record. If he knows how things work and has all these connections as you say, why hasn’t he done anything major? What would make you think he’d be a better President than he has been a Senator?  I  mean the core of his own party grudgingly supports him for a reason.

Just recently McCain has shunned some of our NATO allies, his VP talked about possible war with Russia, he supported bailing out AIG then he didn’t, he says that he feels the fundamentals of our economy are strong, he’s ducking debates and never talks about the issues. Yet according to you, he will get things done. Why? Because he’s been in Washington longer? Those two can get us all killed, but since McCain has been in Washington longer it’s all good. Swish, I think you should learn about the candidates, study their policies and backgrounds( much better) otherwise this conversation is pointless and there is no reason to continue. It’s times like these when I believe that being 18 shouldn’t be the only requirement to vote in this country. People should know where the candidates stand and what their policies mean in the grand scheme of things before they are allowed vote IMO.



It's these kind of clueless statements that make me not want to respond, it's not close to being true. Many touted Clinton for his great economy and put Bush down because the economy turned. It's silly. And wrong.

If your in high school I'll give you a break though.

Quote
Please do not continue to dredge up Hillary Clinton’s campaign failures
I brought up Hillary as an example and only once, but for her experience, I said nothing about her failures. Your making up things again.

You've done this in previous posts and are not ready for a serious discussion. But there are some areas that you do OK in.  :)

Anybody can say what people have done as you have in your posts, it doesn't mean you have any idea who's qualified.

I don't care to post about myself and what I need, only the candidates. Be objective and not concentrate on the poster, it won't derail me if that's what your trying to do.

You never answered or chimed in on people gravitating toward what is famaliar, you ignored my post and continued posting what you want??? Answer the question or try to anyway.


Dude, I'm a graduate student studying none other than Anthropology. And you want to challenge me on a subject such as Human behavior? You're intellectually inept, this was clear from your first post. However, I chose to engage you in order to be nice. I could have been much more harsh, but out of respect I chose not to be. I'm going to let you slide, because it's clear that you are lonely and looking for conflict. And frankly, you don't have the chops.
Ralphie: I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle! <br /><br />Mrs. Parker: No, you\'ll shoot your eye out.

Offline Swish

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #182 on: September 25, 2008, 09:32:15 PM »
Swish,

I’m sorry but you really need to tune in, you‘re flailing all over the place. 2 years ago the press and members of the Democratic party were practically hounding Senator Obama to throw his hat into the race for 2008. So you’re totally off base …… again.

Next, Obama has served in the Illinois state legislature for 8 years. If Obama becomes President, he will have spent more time serving as a state legislator than anyone who has occupied the White House since Abraham Lincoln. He has also been a senator for the past 4 years. He is a graduate of Columbia university and Harvard law and served as President of the Harvard Law review(this alone should prove that he is no dummy). Before he became involved in politics, he was a community organizer, a civil rights attorney and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago.


Obama is one of the few Senators to serve on three of the four Senate Committees dealing with foreign policy issues including the Foreign Relations; Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs; and Veterans' Affairs committees and he is the Chair of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Relations which is responsible fore U.S. relations with European countries, the European Union, and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. So cut the crap Swish.

Please do not continue to dredge up Hillary Clinton’s campaign failures. Aside from the Bosnia fiasco the most ridiculous claim she made which caused her to lose any ounce of credibility, was her insistence that her years as first lady prepared her for the role of commander and chief. Hillary did nothing significant as first lady and her White House files prove that. Lying in bed with the President doesn’t prepare you for the Presidency( even if it did she still wouldn‘t be qualified). If I were a woman that would have been most offensive. It’s called sleeping your way to the top, talk about setting back the movement. According to the logic of her followers(you) Laura Bush is prepared to be the President of the United States. After all she is a two-term first lady. Bush 2012!

Also by your logic any bum off the street is fit for the Presidency. You seem to believe that the President doesn’t have to know anything at all, it’s all about their advisors. Well, I hate to break it to you, but while the President doesn’t have to be an economic expert, he/she needs to at least have workable knowledge of the subject to even know what advise to accept as legitimate and McCain has admitted that he doesn‘t. This is why were  in the mess we’re in now, because we have a President that doesn’t know crap.


You also seem to think the length of time served in Washington somehow translates into competence.  Well, if that’s the case write in Senator Robert Byrd’s  name on your Presidential ballot, after all he is the longest serving Senator in US history. 

John McCain is at least 25 years older than Senator Obama and has served in Washington twice as along with nothing much to show for it, other than to show that he‘s been part of the problem. Which is why his running as a war hero rather than based on his Senate record. If he knows how things work and has all these connections as you say, why hasn’t he done anything major? What would make you think he’d be a better President than he has been a Senator?  I  mean the core of his own party grudgingly supports him for a reason.

Just recently McCain has shunned some of our NATO allies, his VP talked about possible war with Russia, he supported bailing out AIG then he didn’t, he says that he feels the fundamentals of our economy are strong, he’s ducking debates and never talks about the issues. Yet according to you, he will get things done. Why? Because he’s been in Washington longer? Those two can get us all killed, but since McCain has been in Washington longer it’s all good. Swish, I think you should learn about the candidates, study their policies and backgrounds( much better) otherwise this conversation is pointless and there is no reason to continue. It’s times like these when I believe that being 18 shouldn’t be the only requirement to vote in this country. People should know where the candidates stand and what their policies mean in the grand scheme of things before they are allowed vote IMO.



It's these kind of clueless statements that make me not want to respond, it's not close to being true. Many touted Clinton for his great economy and put Bush down because the economy turned. It's silly. And wrong.

If your in high school I'll give you a break though.

Quote
Please do not continue to dredge up Hillary Clinton’s campaign failures
I brought up Hillary as an example and only once, but for her experience, I said nothing about her failures. Your making up things again.

You've done this in previous posts and are not ready for a serious discussion. But there are some areas that you do OK in.  :)

Anybody can say what people have done as you have in your posts, it doesn't mean you have any idea who's qualified.

I don't care to post about myself and what I need, only the candidates. Be objective and not concentrate on the poster, it won't derail me if that's what your trying to do.

You never answered or chimed in on people gravitating toward what is famaliar, you ignored my post and continued posting what you want??? Answer the question or try to anyway.


Dude, I'm a graduate student studying none other than Anthropology. And you want to challenge me on a subject such as Human behavior? You're intellectually inept, this was clear from your first post. However, I chose to engage you in order to be nice. I could have been much more harsh, but out of respect I chose not to be. I'm going to let you slide, because it's clear that you are lonely and looking for conflict. And frankly, you don't have the chops.

You keep trying to impress me but it hasn't happened, I'll tell you why.

You won't engage in objective back and forth debate, just more posts with something else that you think of.

You make assumptions from my posts with no logical basis, I've pointed that out several times. This is not impressive.

I just challenged you on your favorite subject and no reply, good decision for once.

Then the personal stuff when you have no reply, I figured high school when reading your posts, that's the level I see intellectually and emotionally.

If you know a lot then show it, there has been no analysis from you, some facts you brought up like Obama's experience, big deal.
Do something with the facts, what underlines the trends or something like that.

Lets get back to your favorite subject about being famaliar. It is not a challenge, never has been at least for me.

Lets hear what the graduate student has to say.

Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #183 on: September 25, 2008, 09:47:59 PM »
Swish,

I’m sorry but you really need to tune in, you‘re flailing all over the place. 2 years ago the press and members of the Democratic party were practically hounding Senator Obama to throw his hat into the race for 2008. So you’re totally off base …… again.

Next, Obama has served in the Illinois state legislature for 8 years. If Obama becomes President, he will have spent more time serving as a state legislator than anyone who has occupied the White House since Abraham Lincoln. He has also been a senator for the past 4 years. He is a graduate of Columbia university and Harvard law and served as President of the Harvard Law review(this alone should prove that he is no dummy). Before he became involved in politics, he was a community organizer, a civil rights attorney and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago.


Obama is one of the few Senators to serve on three of the four Senate Committees dealing with foreign policy issues including the Foreign Relations; Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs; and Veterans' Affairs committees and he is the Chair of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Relations which is responsible fore U.S. relations with European countries, the European Union, and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. So cut the crap Swish.

Please do not continue to dredge up Hillary Clinton’s campaign failures. Aside from the Bosnia fiasco the most ridiculous claim she made which caused her to lose any ounce of credibility, was her insistence that her years as first lady prepared her for the role of commander and chief. Hillary did nothing significant as first lady and her White House files prove that. Lying in bed with the President doesn’t prepare you for the Presidency( even if it did she still wouldn‘t be qualified). If I were a woman that would have been most offensive. It’s called sleeping your way to the top, talk about setting back the movement. According to the logic of her followers(you) Laura Bush is prepared to be the President of the United States. After all she is a two-term first lady. Bush 2012!

Also by your logic any bum off the street is fit for the Presidency. You seem to believe that the President doesn’t have to know anything at all, it’s all about their advisors. Well, I hate to break it to you, but while the President doesn’t have to be an economic expert, he/she needs to at least have workable knowledge of the subject to even know what advise to accept as legitimate and McCain has admitted that he doesn‘t. This is why were  in the mess we’re in now, because we have a President that doesn’t know crap.


You also seem to think the length of time served in Washington somehow translates into competence.  Well, if that’s the case write in Senator Robert Byrd’s  name on your Presidential ballot, after all he is the longest serving Senator in US history. 

John McCain is at least 25 years older than Senator Obama and has served in Washington twice as along with nothing much to show for it, other than to show that he‘s been part of the problem. Which is why his running as a war hero rather than based on his Senate record. If he knows how things work and has all these connections as you say, why hasn’t he done anything major? What would make you think he’d be a better President than he has been a Senator?  I  mean the core of his own party grudgingly supports him for a reason.

Just recently McCain has shunned some of our NATO allies, his VP talked about possible war with Russia, he supported bailing out AIG then he didn’t, he says that he feels the fundamentals of our economy are strong, he’s ducking debates and never talks about the issues. Yet according to you, he will get things done. Why? Because he’s been in Washington longer? Those two can get us all killed, but since McCain has been in Washington longer it’s all good. Swish, I think you should learn about the candidates, study their policies and backgrounds( much better) otherwise this conversation is pointless and there is no reason to continue. It’s times like these when I believe that being 18 shouldn’t be the only requirement to vote in this country. People should know where the candidates stand and what their policies mean in the grand scheme of things before they are allowed vote IMO.



It's these kind of clueless statements that make me not want to respond, it's not close to being true. Many touted Clinton for his great economy and put Bush down because the economy turned. It's silly. And wrong.

If your in high school I'll give you a break though.

Quote
Please do not continue to dredge up Hillary Clinton’s campaign failures
I brought up Hillary as an example and only once, but for her experience, I said nothing about her failures. Your making up things again.

You've done this in previous posts and are not ready for a serious discussion. But there are some areas that you do OK in.  :)

Anybody can say what people have done as you have in your posts, it doesn't mean you have any idea who's qualified.

I don't care to post about myself and what I need, only the candidates. Be objective and not concentrate on the poster, it won't derail me if that's what your trying to do.

You never answered or chimed in on people gravitating toward what is famaliar, you ignored my post and continued posting what you want??? Answer the question or try to anyway.


Dude, I'm a graduate student studying none other than Anthropology. And you want to challenge me on a subject such as Human behavior? You're intellectually inept, this was clear from your first post. However, I chose to engage you in order to be nice. I could have been much more harsh, but out of respect I chose not to be. I'm going to let you slide, because it's clear that you are lonely and looking for conflict. And frankly, you don't have the chops.

You keep trying to impress me but it hasn't happened, I'll tell you why.

You won't engage in objective back and forth debate, just more posts with something else that you think of.

You make assumptions from my posts with no logical basis, I've pointed that out several times. This is not impressive.

I just challenged you on your favorite subject and no reply, good decision for once.

Then the personal stuff when you have no reply, I figured high school when reading your posts, that's the level I see intellectually and emotionally.

If you know a lot then show it, there has been no analysis from you, some facts you brought up like Obama's experience, big deal.
Do something with the facts, what underlines the trends or something like that.

Lets get back to your favorite subject about being famaliar. It is not a challenge, never has been at least for me.

Lets hear what the graduate student has to say.

Swish can I ask you what analysis have you provided? Are you under the impression that posting an OP Ed article is somehow your original analysis? Swish, you made assumptions about Obama's experience and platform and I've proven you wrong with facts each time. So now that you've been proven wrong, you want to use diversion tactics. Now it's about me not providing any political analysis or not responding to some point you think you made. I'm suppossed to believe that you just saw that post today, I'm supposed to buy into this transparent attempt to divert the subject. You're claiming that you've somehow challenged me, but you've posed no question. If you had actually asked a question, I would have happily answered. "Subject about being familiar." What is it that you want me to say that I did not say in the post that you responded to? What you continue to term as the "subject about being familiar", anthropologist term as the Human affinity for likeness and/or tribalism. It's the basics, Anthro 101. It's not some new contribution to the discipline. I don't understand what point you think you're making.

To summarize my post that YOU RESPONDED TO. Tribalism is definitely a human condition, it's a survival mechanism which has stayed with us throughout our evolutionary history. However, given our unique ability to reason, we are not limited to our baser instincts, we can question our choices and deflect our urges. I can make the choice to not go with the "familiar" because of this intrinsically human trait called reason. Clearly, you don't understand this concept, otherwise you wouldn't insist that I was somehow avoiding the question. My answer was in the very post you suppossedly took issue with. You claim that I've gotten personal, when your post is full of personal insults. You claim I offered no analysis, when you haven't. You claim my post are based on assumption, when your post are primarily based around assumption. You claim that I'm not being objective(which I never claimed to be with regards to this topic, I'm clearly a Obama supporter) yet your posts lack any form of objectivity. It's called hypocrisy. There is this thing called the Bush economic plan(like the new one he offered up just yesterday) and a Republican economic ideology that has failed the country, yet I'm the one being called clueless for alluding to that fact. Hillarious really. It's amazing that I even have to break this down, but when I said please do not continue to dredge Hillary Clinton's failures. Transaltion: this is not an ideal example, primarily because she touted her experience as first lady as presidential experience and lost a lot of credibility as a result and therefore failed. It was a failed talking point that didn't work, so it would probably not be a good idea to use this example again. I was not claiming that you've continually brought this up, or purposely brought up Hillary's failures. My god. After comparing your posts to mine, I'm amazed that you can say with a straight face that I am somehow not ready for a serious discussion and that I am somehow clueless. Wow.

I have  stated many times in this thread, that my posts were not directed to you personally( despite how they may have appeared) you seemed to accept that fact, now conveniently today you're somehow outraged. The more extreme comments in my posts were more or less my version of a rhetorical device. If you took anything I said before this recent exchange as a personal attack or insult I apologize. It's established that we are not fans of one another, so with that, it's probably best to cease any further discussion between the two of us before things get out of hand. In other words, I will no longer respond to anything you say and vice versa. I'm not going to play your game. I've been posting here for a long time, because I generally like the people here, I don't come here for this, it's not that serious, I have more important things to concern myself with. Babs warned us, I should have listened. But if your intentions are to create these post in an effort to start some kind of conflict with individual posters here, you probably won't last long.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 02:09:31 AM by Pacer »
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Offline Swish

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #184 on: September 26, 2008, 04:22:48 AM »
This post is one of the problems I have with our debate.

Quote
Dude, I'm a graduate student studying none other than Anthropology. And you want to challenge me on a subject such as Human behavior? You're intellectually inept, this was clear from your first post. However, I chose to engage you in order to be nice. I could have been much more harsh, but out of respect I chose not to be. I'm going to let you slide, because it's clear that you are lonely and looking for conflict. And frankly, you don't have the chops.

This is off the subject and doesn't resolve anything. Just plain rude.

The other point was haw impressed you are with Obama's experience, you're one of the first I've heard say that. As I've said before, his experience was a normal state senate for 8 years and 4 years in the senate, nothing special here at all.

I understand about being famaliar and chosing because of this, but the decision to make this choice was thought through long before. It's not instinct, it's a thought process with a conclusion. Did you just look this up?


Quote
I have  stated many times in this thread, that my posts were not directed to you personally( despite how they may have appeared) you seemed to accept that fact, now conveniently today you're somehow outraged

This won't work, see your above quote. Need I say more??


Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #185 on: September 26, 2008, 09:52:44 AM »
This post is one of the problems I have with our debate.

Quote
Dude, I'm a graduate student studying none other than Anthropology. And you want to challenge me on a subject such as Human behavior? You're intellectually inept, this was clear from your first post. However, I chose to engage you in order to be nice. I could have been much more harsh, but out of respect I chose not to be. I'm going to let you slide, because it's clear that you are lonely and looking for conflict. And frankly, you don't have the chops.

This is off the subject and doesn't resolve anything. Just plain rude.

The other point was haw impressed you are with Obama's experience, you're one of the first I've heard say that. As I've said before, his experience was a normal state senate for 8 years and 4 years in the senate, nothing special here at all.

I understand about being famaliar and chosing because of this, but the decision to make this choice was thought through long before. It's not instinct, it's a thought process with a conclusion. Did you just look this up?
Quote

I have stated many times in this thread, that my posts were not directed to you personally( despite how they may have appeared) you seemed to accept that fact, now conveniently today you're somehow outraged

This won't work, see your above quote. Need I say more??



Just to be clear we were never having a debate. You offered nothing to the conversation outside of "Obama is clown, I emailed the guy and got a generic response, Obama is a puppet." You never offered a coherent thought. You made accusations, assumptions, I provided facts to dispute them, this is not a debate. You actually have to know something about the subject in order to debate it. What I've bolded is an example of your lack of coherency. To you what you've just stated makes sense, just as your statement that Obama is a liar because Bush wasn't in the senate, so how could McCain vote along with him 90% of the time, makes sense to you and only you. You write in a vague, guarded style in an effort to cover up the obvious fact that you don't have the breadth of knowledge to expound on a particular subject. I see through this. "it's a thought process with a conclusion." You just said a whole lot of nothing.

The propensity toward tribalism is a major socio/cultural anthropological tenet, and yes it is an instinctual mechanism, there is evidence for this in the region of the brain called the medial prefrontal cortex (MPFC). But like other instinctual inclinations, it is counteracted by our ability to reason. But I supposse you know more than the leading anthropologist in the field. It's not called tribalism, it's called the "familiar" because Swish says so. To imply that I "just looked something up"  puts on display your severe inability to comprehend anything that you read, given that I basically summarized the post that you conveniently took issue with. You're out of your league Swish, just move along. You're truly waisting your time.

And before I made any comment about your clear lack of intellect. This was a response I got from you:

"Just saw this one, school is in session"

"think before you post!!!"

" It's these kind of clueless statements that make me not want to respond"

"If your in high school I'll give you a break though."


 Which is guess what? "Just plain rude." And once again, hypocritical. Especially considering the level of intellectual ability you've displayed in this thread (or lack thereof). You're the last person that should make statements like these. This is the reason I responded to you in the way that I did.

You implied that Obama has only been in politics since 2004. I proved you wrong, now you want to claim, "it was a normal state senate"( it was actually the state legislature) "It was nothing special" and you attempt change the subject. You've done nothing but make a mockery of yourself. As I've stated, we don't like each other and should no longer communicate. And frankly, the only reason I ever responded to you was because I was bored, I never got anything from our exchanges. I'm onto you, others are onto you. If you continue to play these games, you will probably end up getting yourself banned. Any further responses from you, I will take as an attempt to start conflict on the board and will be reported to the moderators.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 04:07:57 PM by Pacer »
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #186 on: September 26, 2008, 10:04:03 AM »
Phew, it's hot in here. ..-)

I'm just gonna keep my big mouth shut on this one. :innocent:
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Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #187 on: September 26, 2008, 10:07:39 AM »
Phew, it's hot in here. ..-)

I'm just gonna keep my big mouth shut on this one. :innocent:

Oh come on Monster, I like your big mouth. ;-() :rofl_2:
Ralphie: I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle! <br /><br />Mrs. Parker: No, you\'ll shoot your eye out.

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #188 on: September 26, 2008, 10:15:27 AM »
Phew, it's hot in here. ..-)

I'm just gonna keep my big mouth shut on this one. :innocent:

Oh come on Monster, I like your big mouth. ;-() :rofl_2:
Yeah, I know, but I don't like getting riled up with people I like unless it's face to face.
It's too hard to miscommunicate in this forum.
I've had a few passionate 'discussions' with fellow posters here (you included) that just seem to degenerate into unpleasantries after awhile.  That's just not the reason I participate here, so I'll keep myself in check until something really sets me off! :rofl_2:

You guys go on ahead and have fun, I'll be watching.  Every once in awhile some good info comes to light such as the vid the Babs posted of the Ohio congressperson (I can't believe I just used that GD PC word)! :mad1: :rofl_2:
CONK da ball!!!

Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #189 on: September 26, 2008, 10:20:36 AM »
Phew, it's hot in here. ..-)

I'm just gonna keep my big mouth shut on this one. :innocent:

Oh come on Monster, I like your big mouth. ;-() :rofl_2:
Yeah, I know, but I don't like getting riled up with people I like unless it's face to face.
It's too hard to miscommunicate in this forum.
I've had a few passionate 'discussions' with fellow posters here (you included) that just seem to degenerate into unpleasantries after awhile.  That's just not the reason I participate here, so I'll keep myself in check until something really sets me off! :rofl_2:

You guys go on ahead and have fun, I'll be watching.  Every once in awhile some good info comes to light such as the vid the Babs posted of the Ohio congressperson (I can't believe I just used that GD PC word)! :mad1: :rofl_2:

No, you're right. Subjects like these can get ugly. I don't come here for that either and if that's what this place has become, then I just won't come here period. It's not worth my time. I have more serious matters to contend with.

"Congressperson"

That's some major progress there monsta! :)) :rofl_2:
Ralphie: I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle! <br /><br />Mrs. Parker: No, you\'ll shoot your eye out.

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #190 on: September 26, 2008, 10:22:34 AM »
Phew, it's hot in here. ..-)

I'm just gonna keep my big mouth shut on this one. :innocent:

Oh come on Monster, I like your big mouth. ;-() :rofl_2:
Yeah, I know, but I don't like getting riled up with people I like unless it's face to face.
It's too hard to miscommunicate in this forum.
I've had a few passionate 'discussions' with fellow posters here (you included) that just seem to degenerate into unpleasantries after awhile.  That's just not the reason I participate here, so I'll keep myself in check until something really sets me off! :rofl_2:

You guys go on ahead and have fun, I'll be watching.  Every once in awhile some good info comes to light such as the vid the Babs posted of the Ohio congressperson (I can't believe I just used that GD PC word)! :mad1: :rofl_2:

No, you're right. Subjects like these can get ugly. I don't come here for that either and if that's what this place has become, then I just won't come here period. It's not worth my time. I have more serious matters to contend with.

"Congressperson"

That's some major progress there monsta! :)) :rofl_2:
It just didn't make sense to call her a congress-man. :\
CONK da ball!!!

Offline jeffrx

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #191 on: September 26, 2008, 01:14:51 PM »
Did you guys see Palin's interview with Katie Couric?  You have to see it to see just how clueless she truly is!  She thinks that being "next to Russia" and "a border state to Canada" is solid foreign policy experience.  :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:
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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #192 on: September 26, 2008, 05:31:26 PM »
This post is one of the problems I have with our debate.

Quote
Dude, I'm a graduate student studying none other than Anthropology. And you want to challenge me on a subject such as Human behavior? You're intellectually inept, this was clear from your first post. However, I chose to engage you in order to be nice. I could have been much more harsh, but out of respect I chose not to be. I'm going to let you slide, because it's clear that you are lonely and looking for conflict. And frankly, you don't have the chops.

This is off the subject and doesn't resolve anything. Just plain rude.

The other point was haw impressed you are with Obama's experience, you're one of the first I've heard say that. As I've said before, his experience was a normal state senate for 8 years and 4 years in the senate, nothing special here at all.

I understand about being famaliar and chosing because of this, but the decision to make this choice was thought through long before. It's not instinct, it's a thought process with a conclusion. Did you just look this up?
Quote

I have stated many times in this thread, that my posts were not directed to you personally( despite how they may have appeared) you seemed to accept that fact, now conveniently today you're somehow outraged

This won't work, see your above quote. Need I say more??



Just to be clear we were never having a debate. You offered nothing to the conversation outside of "Obama is clown, I emailed the guy and got a generic response, Obama is a puppet." You never offered a coherent thought. You made accusations, assumptions, I provided facts to dispute them, this is not a debate. You actually have to know something about the subject in order to debate it. What I've bolded is an example of your lack of coherency. To you what you've just stated makes sense, just as your statement that Obama is a liar because Bush wasn't in the senate, so how could McCain vote along with him 90% of the time, makes sense to you and only you. You write in a vague, guarded style in an effort to cover up the obvious fact that you don't have the breadth of knowledge to expound on a particular subject. I see through this. "it's a thought process with a conclusion." You just said a whole lot of nothing.

The propensity toward tribalism is a major socio/cultural anthropological tenet, and yes it is an instinctual mechanism, there is evidence for this in the region of the brain called the medial prefrontal cortex (MPFC). But like other instinctual inclinations, it is counteracted by our ability to reason. But I supposse you know more than the leading anthropologist in the field. It's not called tribalism, it's called the "familiar" because Swish says so. To imply that I "just looked something up"  puts on display your severe inability to comprehend anything that you read, given that I basically summarized the post that you conveniently took issue with. You're out of your league Swish, just move along. You're truly waisting your time.
And before I made any comment about your clear lack of intellect. This was a response I got from you:

"Just saw this one, school is in session"

"think before you post!!!"

" It's these kind of clueless statements that make me not want to respond"

"If your in high school I'll give you a break though."


 Which is guess what? "Just plain rude." And once again, hypocritical. Especially considering the level of intellectual ability you've displayed in this thread (or lack thereof). You're the last person that should make statements like these. This is the reason I responded to you in the way that I did.

You implied that Obama has only been in politics since 2004. I proved you wrong, now you want to claim, "it was a normal state senate"( it was actually the state legislature) "It was nothing special" and you attempt change the subject. You've done nothing but make a mockery of yourself. As I've stated, we don't like each other and should no longer communicate. And frankly, the only reason I ever responded to you was because I was bored, I never got anything from our exchanges. I'm onto you, others are onto you. If you continue to play these games, you will probably end up getting yourself banned. Any further responses from you, I will take as an attempt to start conflict on the board and will be reported to the moderators.


That's what I'm talking about, the way I used famaliar has nothing to do with tribalism, you took it out of context. Tribalism doesn't apply here. The definition has no meaning in my statement. That was the problem.

This isn't conflict, it's debate between 2 stubborn people.

Anyone can go back and see where the personal attacks began. And who was being less than congenial at the beginning.


Yes I brought up Obama's experience, I can't find anyone that is impressed about it as you are. This includes political analysts. That's why I kept hitting on this subject but only got his record and no particulars where I could agree or disagree. I already knew there could be no response that would help your argument. So yeah, I could see why you got frustrated.

Anyways I still haven't decided who to vote for.

Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #193 on: September 26, 2008, 06:04:07 PM »
Did you guys see Palin's interview with Katie Couric?  You have to see it to see just how clueless she truly is!  She thinks that being "next to Russia" and "a border state to Canada" is solid foreign policy experience.  :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:


Oh god... I should probably be slapped silly for saying this but..... I'm starting to pity her, well just a little, kind of, sort of, maybe.  :rofl_2: I mean after that horrendous interview and this article that I just read(below) she is making a complete fool of herself, or maybe it's the McCain campaign making a fool of her to be honest. But I'm glad she's in the race, it gives Obama a better chance to win.
Based on Sarah Palin's "unique" qualifications, I'm qualified to VP to! She has a bachelors, I have bachelors, she can see Russia, I'm right next Mexico! And to put the cherry on top, I've actually been there! I never got the phone call, I feel dissed. :(

Even the conservatives are waking up! Please don't make her step down! ://

Palin should step down, conservative commentator says
Posted: 04:27 PM ET


CNN) – Prominent conservative columnist Kathleen Parker, an early supporter of Republican VP candidate Sarah Palin, said Friday recent interviews have shown the Alaska governor is "out of her league" and should leave the GOP presidential ticket for the good of the party.

The criticism in Parker's Friday column is the latest in a recent string of negative assessments toward the McCain-Palin candidacy from prominent conservatives.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/26/palin-should-step-down-conservative-commentator-says/
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 06:30:36 PM by Pacer »
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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #194 on: September 26, 2008, 06:47:49 PM »
Did you guys see Palin's interview with Katie Couric?  You have to see it to see just how clueless she truly is!  She thinks that being "next to Russia" and "a border state to Canada" is solid foreign policy experience.  :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

Oh god... I should probably be slapped silly for saying this but..... I'm starting to pity her, well just a little, kind of, sort of, maybe.  :rofl_2: I mean after that horrendous interview and this article that I just read(below) she is making a complete fool of herself, or maybe it's the McCain campaign making a fool of her to be honest. But I'm glad she's in the race, it gives Obama a better chance to win.
Based on Sarah Palin's "unique" qualifications, I'm qualified to VP to! She has a bachelors, I have bachelors, she can see Russia, I'm right next Mexico! And to put the cherry on top, I've actually been there! I never got the phone call, I feel dissed. :(

Even the conservatives are waking up! Please don't make her step down! ://



You can pity her all you want, but is she ready to be the next Vice President of the United States - 2nd in line to a 77 year old guy who, if elected - we know that job ages people... so.... :wicked: ::::))))  Is SHE the one you want to take over the country?  Just saying.... :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #195 on: September 26, 2008, 10:07:35 PM »
Did you guys see Palin's interview with Katie Couric?  You have to see it to see just how clueless she truly is!  She thinks that being "next to Russia" and "a border state to Canada" is solid foreign policy experience.  :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

Oh god... I should probably be slapped silly for saying this but..... I'm starting to pity her, well just a little, kind of, sort of, maybe.  :rofl_2: I mean after that horrendous interview and this article that I just read(below) she is making a complete fool of herself, or maybe it's the McCain campaign making a fool of her to be honest. But I'm glad she's in the race, it gives Obama a better chance to win.
Based on Sarah Palin's "unique" qualifications, I'm qualified to VP to! She has a bachelors, I have bachelors, she can see Russia, I'm right next Mexico! And to put the cherry on top, I've actually been there! I never got the phone call, I feel dissed. :(

Even the conservatives are waking up! Please don't make her step down! ://



You can pity her all you want, but is she ready to be the next Vice President of the United States - 2nd in line to a 77 year old guy who, if elected - we know that job ages people... so.... :wicked: ::::))))  Is SHE the one you want to take over the country?  Just saying.... :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

I know, you're right. I'm kind of embarrassed I wrote that actually :blush: Given that she has a good chance to reach the White House and actually become our President one day, instead of pitying her, I should be scared to death of her :scared: And plus, she chose to throw her hat in the ring so I guess she has to deal with the humiliation that has come along with it. :rofl_2:
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Offline Swish

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #196 on: September 27, 2008, 10:22:05 PM »

"I got a bracelet too"  :mad1:

Saw the debate and really saw how deficient Obama was in the experience area.
Even some Obama backers I know were disappointed in the weak debate performance. I tried to tell them before but all the media really confuses these average voters.  :(

I was really fired up at Obama's "I got a bracelet too" comment, actually it became a joke today among people. McCain was showing some respect with his bracelet claim then Obama comes in and makes it a competitive issue with his counter statement, just low class and without thought to use something important like that to rebuff McCain.
And then there was the interruptions when McCain was speaking, constantly. Obama showed no self control at these times, a trait I don't care for.
As time goes on I hope more people will pick up on these traits and as they do Obama should drop down.

In the international arena McCain's experience showed greatly with the proper etiquette to use in diplomatic relations, Obama was caught flatfooted and made to look foolish with some naive notions that he had, just not good and he should know these areas without thinking but didn't. He sounded somewhat confused about how to undergo talks with renegade/hostile regimes, a basic skill and McCain told him the procedure that was needed. Embarrassing to say the least.  ||-| :Blush:

Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #197 on: September 27, 2008, 10:30:58 PM »
Did you guys see Palin's interview with Katie Couric?  You have to see it to see just how clueless she truly is!  She thinks that being "next to Russia" and "a border state to Canada" is solid foreign policy experience.  :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:


And I think this was the most akward, uncomfortable, clueless answers she gave during the interview. My mouth dropped when I heard this response. Plus, I love what Cafferty had to say in this clip. Brutally honest. :rofl_2:

There are actually two videos posted. One with Cafferty reading viewer responses. And the other with Cafferty "keeping it real." :rofl_2: I'll just post that one here. I'm more of a NPR, PBS guy but I might have to start checking out CNN!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc[/youtube]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/26/jack-cafferty-if-sarah-pa_n_129724.html
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 12:12:58 AM by Pacer »
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Offline jeffrx

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #198 on: September 28, 2008, 08:50:02 PM »

"I got a bracelet too"  :mad1:

Saw the debate and really saw how deficient Obama was in the experience area.
Even some Obama backers I know were disappointed in the weak debate performance. I tried to tell them before but all the media really confuses these average voters.  :(

I was really fired up at Obama's "I got a bracelet too" comment, actually it became a joke today among people. McCain was showing some respect with his bracelet claim then Obama comes in and makes it a competitive issue with his counter statement, just low class and without thought to use something important like that to rebuff McCain.
And then there was the interruptions when McCain was speaking, constantly. Obama showed no self control at these times, a trait I don't care for.
As time goes on I hope more people will pick up on these traits and as they do Obama should drop down.

In the international arena McCain's experience showed greatly with the proper etiquette to use in diplomatic relations, Obama was caught flatfooted and made to look foolish with some naive notions that he had, just not good and he should know these areas without thinking but didn't. He sounded somewhat confused about how to undergo talks with renegade/hostile regimes, a basic skill and McCain told him the procedure that was needed. Embarrassing to say the least.  ||-| :Blush:

Obama's bracelet was cooler than McCains bracelet.  I'm glad he called Mccain out on that cheap political tactic of pulling at the heart strings.  McCain is hopofully toast. 

Like Chris Rock says - Vote for the guy with 1 house, he's more like us.  Don't vote for the guy with 13 houses! 
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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #199 on: September 28, 2008, 09:12:09 PM »
Did you guys see Palin's interview with Katie Couric?  You have to see it to see just how clueless she truly is!  She thinks that being "next to Russia" and "a border state to Canada" is solid foreign policy experience.  :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:


And I think this was the most akward, uncomfortable, clueless answers she gave during the interview. My mouth dropped when I heard this response. Plus, I love what Cafferty had to say in this clip. Brutally honest. :rofl_2:

There are actually two videos posted. One with Cafferty reading viewer responses. And the other with Cafferty "keeping it real." :rofl_2: I'll just post that one here. I'm more of a NPR, PBS guy but I might have to start checking out CNN!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc[/youtube]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/26/jack-cafferty-if-sarah-pa_n_129724.html


 :// :// :// :// I don't care if you ARE for McClain... his running mate should scare the hail out of you!  Like he said, we're a  77 year old man ONE beat away from this lady being the President.  McCain, in my opinion, did NOT do himself any justice by picking her as a running mate.  Pathetic...and a little sad! :mad1:
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 09:12:45 PM by Dallas »