Author Topic: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie  (Read 34850 times)

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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #240 on: October 14, 2008, 04:50:17 PM »
I give him plenty of credit.  I think he represents his party well.  Have you read his book yet?

I just don't think he's the best person for the job.

btw   I don't think McCain is either. :)
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Offline dmastous

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #241 on: October 14, 2008, 05:18:06 PM »
I said it before, and I'll say it again. He's Jimmy Carter all over again. He even has the same people on his campaign staff that advised Carter.
This is such a deja vu, I can't even believe it.
Same financial problems, for the same reasons, and we are going to elect the same kind of president.

:dunno:
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 05:35:30 PM by dmastous »

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Offline dmastous

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #242 on: October 14, 2008, 05:35:05 PM »
Part of the problem, though, is the alternative, isn't much better than the alternative was then either.  ..-)
McCain is even less inspiring than Obama.  ..-)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 05:35:44 PM by dmastous »

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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #243 on: October 15, 2008, 06:59:13 AM »
Part of the problem, though, is the alternative, isn't much better than the alternative was then either.  ..-)
McCain is even less inspiring than Obama.  ..-)
Agreed.

A self-proclaimed Maverick is the worst kind.
The real ones let their deeds speak for themselves and are too humble to toot their own horn.

They just 'do'.
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Offline Jamesdster

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #244 on: October 15, 2008, 07:14:12 AM »
Part of the problem, though, is the alternative, isn't much better than the alternative was then either.  ..-)
McCain is even less inspiring than Obama.  ..-)
Agreed.

A self-proclaimed Maverick is the worst kind.
The real ones let their deeds speak for themselves and are too humble to toot their own horn.

They just 'do'.


As I have said before, what is option C?  I don't care for either candidate.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 07:24:03 AM by Jamesdster »
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Offline jeffrx

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #245 on: October 15, 2008, 08:05:50 AM »
I said it before, and I'll say it again. He's Jimmy Carter all over again. He even has the same people on his campaign staff that advised Carter.
This is such a deja vu, I can't even believe it.
Same financial problems, for the same reasons, and we are going to elect the same kind of president.

:dunno:

D-mas, where are we now?  Who got us here?  The national debt is through the roof and the entire world hates us.  It's time to elect someone who is capable of understanding the economy.  We've just experienced 8 years of "maverick" politics, now we deserve to try something different.
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Offline dmastous

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #246 on: October 15, 2008, 10:47:41 AM »
I said it before, and I'll say it again. He's Jimmy Carter all over again. He even has the same people on his campaign staff that advised Carter.
This is such a deja vu, I can't even believe it.
Same financial problems, for the same reasons, and we are going to elect the same kind of president.

:dunno:

D-mas, where are we now?  Who got us here?  The national debt is through the roof and the entire world hates us.  It's time to elect someone who is capable of understanding the economy.  We've just experienced 8 years of "maverick" politics, now we deserve to try something different.

If you want to blame our current financial woes on the current administration, you are sadly short sighted. This economy is the result of bad management by both parties, and is as much congress as it is executive. Right now we have a democratic controlled congress that is allowed to spend as liberally as it wants to because the republican controlled executive wants to keep funding our adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is the equivalent of burning the candle at both ends.
But the root of the banking problem can be traced back to both the Clinton administration and the previous Bush administration. In fact I'd go so far as to say that most of what we are dealing with now is due to decisions made during the Clinton presidency. But that doesn't mean I blame Clinton, as I think the republicans controlled congress for at least a few of the 8 years he was in office. But you can look even further back, into Bush Sr to see some of the causes.
But more than that, it's a blame the bank executives that made bad descisions over the past 20 years. Greedy make money at all costs type descisions. But they have to right? I mean it's their duty (by law) to squeeze every penny they can out of their business, so the stock is always going up. They have a duty to their stockholders to forget the future, and just look at now. Regardless of how ultimately damaging the decisions they make are.
This is not a party problem. It's not a blame the republicans or blame the democrats. It's blame the government. All of the government, for the last 20 years. This is systemic problem that needs to be fixed, but will probably never be fixed.

Is a tree as a rocking horse
An ambition fulfilled
And is the sawdust jealous?
I worry about these things .

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Offline OSU Buckeye

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #247 on: October 15, 2008, 10:52:06 AM »
I said it before, and I'll say it again. He's Jimmy Carter all over again. He even has the same people on his campaign staff that advised Carter.
This is such a deja vu, I can't even believe it.
Same financial problems, for the same reasons, and we are going to elect the same kind of president.

:dunno:

D-mas, where are we now?  Who got us here?  The national debt is through the roof and the entire world hates us.  It's time to elect someone who is capable of understanding the economy.  We've just experienced 8 years of "maverick" politics, now we deserve to try something different.

If you want to blame our current financial woes on the current administration, you are sadly short sighted. This economy is the result of bad management by both parties, and is as much congress as it is executive. Right now we have a democratic controlled congress that is allowed to spend as liberally as it wants to because the republican controlled executive wants to keep funding our adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is the equivalent of burning the candle at both ends.
But the root of the banking problem can be traced back to both the Clinton administration and the previous Bush administration. In fact I'd go so far as to say that most of what we are dealing with now is due to decisions made during the Clinton presidency. But that doesn't mean I blame Clinton, as I think the republicans controlled congress for at least a few of the 8 years he was in office. But you can look even further back, into Bush Sr to see some of the causes.
But more than that, it's a blame the bank executives that made bad descisions over the past 20 years. Greedy make money at all costs type descisions. But they have to right? I mean it's their duty (by law) to squeeze every penny they can out of their business, so the stock is always going up. They have a duty to their stockholders to forget the future, and just look at now. Regardless of how ultimately damaging the decisions they make are.
This is not a party problem. It's not a blame the republicans or blame the democrats. It's blame the government. All of the government, for the last 20 years. This is systemic problem that needs to be fixed, but will probably never be fixed.

Many Americans can take quite a bit of blame for over-spending on houses and business owners not handling their biness right.  But, you are not defending Bush Jr. with your post are you? 

Offline dmastous

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #248 on: October 15, 2008, 11:27:16 AM »

Many Americans can take quite a bit of blame for over-spending on houses and business owners not handling their biness right.  But, you are not defending Bush Jr. with your post are you? 

Though I'm not as much of a critic of Bush as most, I'm not defending him with that post, or any other. He has screwed things up with some of his decisions. He has made a bad thing worse.

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I worry about these things .

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Offline jeffrx

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #249 on: October 15, 2008, 01:16:50 PM »
After Clinton = budget suplus
After Bush = budget deficit

I blame the person on the clock.
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #250 on: October 15, 2008, 02:34:33 PM »
After Clinton = budget suplus
After Bush = budget deficit

I blame the person on the clock.
By that logic, if Obama takes over with a huge deficit it's his fault??? :confused1:
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Offline conchita

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #251 on: October 15, 2008, 02:42:08 PM »
the thing I dislike the most about Clinton was the he did nothing to prevent Talibans/Osama/Al Qadea. He didnt notice the danger at all and was too passive with Afganisthan turning into a crazy state with the talibans and the bombings of US embassies in Africa.
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Offline kickserve

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #252 on: October 15, 2008, 02:51:40 PM »
the thing I dislike the most about Clinton was the he did nothing to prevent Talibans/Osama/Al Qadea. He didnt notice the danger at all and was too passive with Afganisthan turning into a crazy state with the talibans and the bombings of US embassies in Africa.

Can you blame him when you see how unpopular Afghanistan and Iraq have been?

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #253 on: October 15, 2008, 02:53:00 PM »
the thing I dislike the most about Clinton was the he did nothing to prevent Talibans/Osama/Al Qadea. He didnt notice the danger at all and was too passive with Afganisthan turning into a crazy state with the talibans and the bombings of US embassies in Africa.
Then you may find this link of some interest!
http://clintoncrimes.tripod.com/ClintonsBinLadenGateMotherofallScandals/id4.html
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Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #254 on: October 15, 2008, 03:44:21 PM »
I think it's fair to say that this was started under Carter, exacerbated under Bush sr., Clinton and completely FUBAR'd under Bush Jr. My Dad seems to think this may have even began way back with Banking Act of 1933, go figure. Anyway, I think it's completely ludicrous to conclude that a sitting president plays no role in what occurs during his/her(PC for monsta) administration.

Sure, they have to deal with the left over baggage of the prior administrations, but when they make poor decisions that only exacerbate the problem, yes they are responsible for it. I'm not saying anyone is making that argument here but I've heard it before.

Congress deserves a huge share of blame as well(a lot more than they are receiving, which I think is do to the fact that most don‘t understand the role of our congress) and so do we. But this whole thing is the result of our two party paradigm with two opposing ideologies that don’t really mesh. It’s a tug of war, all or nothing, you’re either on this side or that one. When it comes down to it, that’s probably our biggest problem of all. However, based on demographic projections, democrats will have a major advantage in the near future, whether that's good or bad we'll see I guess. Anyway, I’m done.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 03:45:06 PM by Pacer »
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Offline dmastous

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #255 on: October 15, 2008, 04:16:38 PM »
After Clinton = budget suplus
After Bush = budget deficit

I blame the person on the clock.

By that logic Herbert Hoover was responsible for the great depression. As a matter of fact, he was blamed by short sighted people in his day, but was his predecessor's policies, or lack of policies that created that situation. Hoover just inherited it and couldn't deal with it (as if anybody could).
Clinton had the blessing of incredible growth due to the twin boons of the computer industry followed by the internet boom. He benefitted from that prospertity. The fact is he didn't keep close enough watch, and many of the issues we face now are partially a result of financial collapses of giant companies such as Enron and Worldcom are things that were unearthed during this administration, but had been going on during Clinton's. So who do you blame? The messenger, or the originator?
If somebody comes to tell you your car is stolen do you immediately arrest him, or look for the person who stole the car?
The problem now, is that the government's reaction to the problem is to throw money at it, and sometimes that's not the answer. Prop it up and don't let it fall. Sometimes letting it fall is the best thing. The mistake we are making is propping up a bad system. We are just making the problem worse. That's is indeed Bush's, and the current Congress' (including McCain and Obama) fault.

Is a tree as a rocking horse
An ambition fulfilled
And is the sawdust jealous?
I worry about these things .

Kevin Godley & Lol Crème (I Pity Inanimate Objects)

Offline jeffrx

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #256 on: October 16, 2008, 01:46:57 PM »
After Clinton = budget suplus
After Bush = budget deficit

I blame the person on the clock.
By that logic, if Obama takes over with a huge deficit it's his fault??? :confused1:

No, because he inherited it.  Bush manufactured it. 

Anyway, I think I'm pretty comfortable with Obama's chances right now, so I may be able to tone it down, as this thing is basically over after McCain lost another debate last night.    :rofl_2:
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 01:48:18 PM by jeffrx »
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Offline Swish

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #257 on: October 16, 2008, 05:53:09 PM »
the thing I dislike the most about Clinton was the he did nothing to prevent Talibans/Osama/Al Qadea. He didnt notice the danger at all and was too passive with Afganisthan turning into a crazy state with the talibans and the bombings of US embassies in Africa.
Then you may find this link of some interest!
http://clintoncrimes.tripod.com/ClintonsBinLadenGateMotherofallScandals/id4.html


One of the main reasons I voted for Bush twice is that he was the last person terrorists wanted to see in the white house. From what I've seen the GOP is the more "country safe" ticket right now. People seem to forget the terrorists when nothing happens for awhile, not everybody but many. It's still not over!!!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 05:58:18 PM by swish »

Offline Swish

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #258 on: October 16, 2008, 07:29:55 PM »
This is one of my letters to Obama about the FDA having increased powers over dietary supplements.

Message sent to the following recipients:
Representative Emanuel
Senator Durbin
Senator Obama


April 28, 2007

[recipient address was inserted here]


Dear [recipient name was inserted here],

All Americans know that the FDA is in need of an overhaul. However, I
adamantly oppose S.1082, the Food and Drug Administration Revitalization
Act of 2007,  which is scheduled for a vote in the Senate Monday
afternoon, April 30, as well as any House companion bill.

I am outraged that this legislation creates a business relationship
between the FDA and private industry for the purpose of designing and
marketing drugs (pages 105-125 of the bill). We do not need an "FDA, Inc."
The lack of transparency between FDA management and the pharmaceutical
industry is one of my greatest concerns-how could the Senate possibly
consider legislation that places the FDA in charge of licensing
arrangements with private industry?

As one of the 150 million consumers of dietary supplements, I also find it
appalling that S.1082 gives the FDA new powers to attack dietary
supplements (pages 106-107).  We do not need more legislation that will
allow the FDA, at its whim, to suppress access to safe, natural health
options and dietary supplements.

This entire package of pharmaceutical industry-friendly FDA reform does
nothing to protect myself or my family from another Vioxx catastrophe.

1) I oppose the pharmaceutical industry funding the FDA for new drug
approvals, which S.1082 not only allows but increases. This is a conflict
of interest. 2) I demand that an independent office within the FDA be set
up to monitor the safety of drugs already on the market. The Institute of
Medicine has already told us that the FDA's current management is
dysfunctional; I want real reform at the FDA. 3) I want full disclosure of
all clinical trials, not the watered-down pharmaceutical industry-friendly
version in S.1082 that allows drug companies to hide their problems. 4) I
want all conflicts of interest removed from FDA advisory panels. There is
no need to have industry-sponsored "experts" voting on drugs which they
receive money to promote.  S.1082 supports the status quo; it is time for
meaningful change.

S.1082 tries to do too much at once and does nothing properly. Under the
pretense of drug safety, the real agenda of the legislation is to turn the
FDA into a drug company and increase FDA regulatory power that can be used
to attack dietary supplements. This 262- page bill was passed out of
committee without a hearing, and there is no report on it so members of
Congress do not even know what it contains. Please vote no on S1082 and on
the House companion bill.

Sincerely,


Me
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And the response From Obama.


Thank you for contacting me regarding the impact of the FDA Revitalization Act (S.1082) on dietary supplements. I appreciate hearing from you.

Research continues to demonstrate the necessity of a nutrient-rich diet for good health. At the same time, we are finding that society as a whole is consuming more processed, less nutritious foods. Often, individuals rely on supplements to ensure the proper intake of necessary nutrients.

Through the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) of 1994, Congress established supplement definitions, created a supplement commission, and established an Office of Dietary Supplements at the National Institute of Health (NIH). This was a positive step in both recognizing the benefits of supplements, as well as the need for proper regulation.

I share your distaste for unnecessary federal regulation. While I understand your concern with protecting access to dietary supplements, S.1082 should not unduly hinder such access and, indeed, is intended to provide consumer protection. It seems to me that we are doing a disservice to the public at large by not examining all possible risks and adverse health consequences associated with the use of dietary supplements. I do not see this as an attack on access to dietary supplements, and I hope that the information with which I have provided you will alleviate your concern.

On May 10th, S.1082 passed in the Senate and is now being considered by my colleagues in the House of Representatives. Although this is considered a "must pass" bill because the user fees that pharmaceutical companies pay the FDA for the drug review process are due to expire on September 20, 2007, I expect passage will face several obstacles. I will continue to work with my colleagues to take timely action on legislation, and you may be certain your priorities and concerns are on my mind.

. Again, MyName, thank you for writing. Please stay in touch in the days to come.

Sincerely,

Barack Obama
United States Senator



His response was wrong and ridiculous, like I've said in the past, Obama is too self serving and tries to sugar coat his statements.


Offline dmastous

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #259 on: October 16, 2008, 07:56:08 PM »
This is one of my letters to Obama about the FDA having increased powers over dietary supplements.

Message sent to the following recipients:
Representative Emanuel
Senator Durbin
Senator Obama

<snip>

Sincerely,


Me
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And the response From Obama.

<snip>

Sincerely,

Barack Obama
United States Senator



His response was wrong and ridiculous, like I've said in the past, Obama is too self serving and tries to sugar coat his statements.



You think Barack Obama wrote that???  :rofl_2:

Is a tree as a rocking horse
An ambition fulfilled
And is the sawdust jealous?
I worry about these things .

Kevin Godley & Lol Crème (I Pity Inanimate Objects)