Author Topic: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie  (Read 32015 times)

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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #60 on: September 01, 2008, 12:15:54 PM »
Like I said... I'm through.  Vote for whoever you want...just vote.
Actually, I choose not to vote.  Since I can't support either candidate in good conscience, I prefer once again to not select the 'lesser of 2 evils' as I've done in the past 4 elections! :(

[b]OK cowardly lion! :rofl_2: [/b]  Did you even get out in the primaries and vote?  Maybe you could have had a voice for another candidate?  Personally, you can do what you want - but I think that's just a cop-out by not voting.  But I guess maybe it's different for  you because when I was younger, we (African-Americans) could not vote.  I remember my mother and grandmother not having the right to vote and so now that we can, I make sure I vote in every election.  But it's a personal thing.  So go ahead and do what you have to do by not voting... I will always vote.  But I guess that's what is good for this country - freedom of choice. ;-()
I guess I should have expected a personal attack after pointing out your illogical thinking.  ;-()   How politically incorrect of you! :rofl_2:

Please do enjoy your right to vote and support the candidate of your choice as I did in the primaries here. 

I always find it amusing when people advocate tolerance and understanding out of one side of their mouth while insulting anyone who disagrees with them out of the other. :rofl_2:  Surely you weren't serious in calling me a coward?

I especially like the last part where you use both gender and race in defence of your position.  Thank goodness I didn't try that one!!! :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

Enough of politics!  Time for tennis! :))
CONK da ball!!!

Online Dallas

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #61 on: September 01, 2008, 12:18:12 PM »
Like I said... I'm through.  Vote for whoever you want...just vote.
Actually, I choose not to vote.  Since I can't support either candidate in good conscience, I prefer once again to not select the 'lesser of 2 evils' as I've done in the past 4 elections! :(

[b]OK cowardly lion! :rofl_2: [/b]  Did you even get out in the primaries and vote?  Maybe you could have had a voice for another candidate?  Personally, you can do what you want - but I think that's just a cop-out by not voting.  But I guess maybe it's different for  you because when I was younger, we (African-Americans) could not vote.  I remember my mother and grandmother not having the right to vote and so now that we can, I make sure I vote in every election.  But it's a personal thing.  So go ahead and do what you have to do by not voting... I will always vote.  But I guess that's what is good for this country - freedom of choice. ;-()
I guess I should have expected a personal attack after pointing out your illogical thinking.  ;-()   How politically incorrect of you! :rofl_2:

Please do enjoy your right to vote and support the candidate of your choice as I did in the primaries here. 

I always find it amusing when people advocate tolerance and understanding out of one side of their mouth while insulting anyone who disagrees with them out of the other. :rofl_2:  Surely you weren't serious in calling me a coward?

I especially like the last part where you use both gender and race in defence of your position.  Thank goodness I didn't try that one!!! :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

Enough of politics!  Time for tennis! :))

Now that's the best thing you've said in a long time! :thumbs-up:

Offline dmastous

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #62 on: September 01, 2008, 12:21:29 PM »

Now people can talk all they want about Clinton's personal life and his "no sex" comment, but when he was in office, not only was the budget balanced, but we had a SURPLUS!  The economy was going good, the unemployment rate was low....then came 8 years of BUSH and look where we are now.  We definitely can't continue going in the same direction we're going, and since McClain voted 95% WITH BUSH, I don't see anything different with what he will bring to the white house.   Heck, with McClain in office heck, talk about being in 1 war, we may be in 5 or 6!


And this 8 years of economic happiness was a result of Clinton? Is that your contention?
We had 8 years of economic success because of the dot com boom. We had a one two punch of technological/commercial breakthroughs. First the personal computer which carried the economy in the first part of the '90s (and got us out of what was then a recession), then when that started to flag, the internet took the baton and carried it all the way through to 2000. People where making money hand over fist, and companies were springing up like weeds. The surpluses you are talking about was due to that success and the taxes that were brought in because of that success. Bill Clinton didn't invent the personal computer, and despite Al Gore's slip, he didn't invent the internet.
Now, we get to why the economy is in the tank...
Three things happened to shock the economy. First, the Netscape suit against Microsoft that case hit the Supreme Court in 2000. The Supreme Court ruled that Microsoft was a monopoly and recommended that it be split into two companies (which never happened). That sent shock waves throughout the technology sector and caused people to take a closer look at what was going on everywhere else. What they saw was an orgy of spending and irresponsibility that bordered on insanity. Money was flying all over the place and companies were making NOTHING. They were spending it on $1000 chairs for everyone and wild parties. The result of all that was the dot com bust. Companies folded, or were bought up by bigger fish, as fast as they had sprung up. That's strike one.
Second was 9/11. Of course that was Bush's fault. Clearly he should have seen that coming (and I'm not being sarcastic, he and his predecessors should have seen it. That's their responsibility). Strike two.
Third was the shock of multiple large companies going bankrupt. Enron, Worldcom, and a few other high profile blowups started people taking a closer look at how books were being kept, and what they saw was troubling. Strike three.
But the reason these things were possible were a direct result of decisions made during the Clinton administration (9/11 is more of a long standing historical issue so that wouldn't altogether be included in that comment, though he played his part). Regulations were dropped, and changes were made to allow these companies to do some of the things they were doing to get out of control. This was done by Clinton and by Reagan and Bush senior. They are all at fault. Bush Jr is just left with the mess, similar to Herbert Hoover after the 1929 crash. Hoover proved incapable of handling the situation so it just got worse, and we call that the Great Depression. The bottom line is the ball was dropped by Clinton, and wasn't picked up by Bush.
Since then we've had the rise in oil costs driving gas prices through the roof, and the real estate market's bottom dropping out. Now I would suggest that both of those could have been prevented or perhaps helped by the Bush administration. His adventure in Iraq and irresponsible spending have also been deplorable.
Bush has exacerbated the situation is many ways, so no credit to him at all. But don't blame this situation entirely on him. He is just standing on the shoulders of "greatness".

Is a tree as a rocking horse
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #63 on: September 01, 2008, 12:27:29 PM »
Like I said... I'm through.  Vote for whoever you want...just vote.
Actually, I choose not to vote.  Since I can't support either candidate in good conscience, I prefer once again to not select the 'lesser of 2 evils' as I've done in the past 4 elections! :(

[b]OK cowardly lion! :rofl_2: [/b]  Did you even get out in the primaries and vote?  Maybe you could have had a voice for another candidate?  Personally, you can do what you want - but I think that's just a cop-out by not voting.  But I guess maybe it's different for  you because when I was younger, we (African-Americans) could not vote.  I remember my mother and grandmother not having the right to vote and so now that we can, I make sure I vote in every election.  But it's a personal thing.  So go ahead and do what you have to do by not voting... I will always vote.  But I guess that's what is good for this country - freedom of choice. ;-()
I guess I should have expected a personal attack after pointing out your illogical thinking.  ;-()   How politically incorrect of you! :rofl_2:

Please do enjoy your right to vote and support the candidate of your choice as I did in the primaries here. 

I always find it amusing when people advocate tolerance and understanding out of one side of their mouth while insulting anyone who disagrees with them out of the other. :rofl_2:  Surely you weren't serious in calling me a coward?

I especially like the last part where you use both gender and race in defence of your position.  Thank goodness I didn't try that one!!! :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

Enough of politics!  Time for tennis! :))

Now that's the best thing you've said in a long time! :thumbs-up:
:rofl_2: ||-| :\ :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:
Tho' we have our differences, I sure do like you! :))
CONK da ball!!!

Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2008, 12:31:26 PM »
Using her race and gender in defense of her position? You have to be kidding me. Obviously, she stating why voting is important to her, simply because there was a time in this country in our not too distant past when someone like her couldn't vote at all. Jesus Christ. ..-)
Ralphie: I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle! <br /><br />Mrs. Parker: No, you\'ll shoot your eye out.

Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2008, 12:35:07 PM »
Yes, Obama the socialist who votes yes on wiretapping and supporting Justice Scalia on the Supreme Court’s recent death penalty ruling, yep that's a very socialist thing to do.

Seek out real socialists to understand that socialism isn't just a comparison within an increasingly compressed US political spectrum, it's an actual political movement that has no representatives in the US political system.
Ralphie: I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle! <br /><br />Mrs. Parker: No, you\'ll shoot your eye out.

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #66 on: September 01, 2008, 12:40:12 PM »
Using her race and gender in defense of her position? You have to be kidding me. Obviously, she stating why voting is important to her, simply because there was a time in this country in our not too distant past when someone like her couldn't vote at all. Jesus Christ. ..-)
I am not kidding you.

So the reasons why voting is important to her give her the right to call me a coward and a cop-out artist?

That sounds more like Dallas's logic than yours. :Confused:

And speaking of JC, please, let's leave your religion out of this! ;-()
CONK da ball!!!

Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2008, 12:41:04 PM »
First off, I find the title of this thread offensive, but it's a free country and you are entitled to start a thread.
Secondly, I agree with whoever said who ever wins the election will probably go down as a bad president because this country is in such a mess.  In my opinion, we're in a mess because of 8 years of Bush and the republican party. (just my view). 

Now people can talk all they want about Clinton's personal life and his "no sex" comment, but when he was in office, not only was the budget balanced, but we had a SURPLUS!  The economy was going good, the unemployment rate was low....then came 8 years of BUSH and look where we are now.  We definitely can't continue going in the same direction we're going, and since McClain voted 95% WITH BUSH, I don't see anything different with what he will bring to the white house.   Heck, with McClain in office heck, talk about being in 1 war, we may be in 5 or 6!

That's all I'm going to say.  Again, everyone can do their part by voting, but if your mind is already made up on who you're going to vote for - then it's a waste of time 'arguing'.  And as a Obama supporter, the title offends me because "politically correct' it should have both names in that title.

Honestly, that's what annoyed me most because the whole premise is wrong. Assuming that Bush would have to be a congressman in order for McCain to support his positions. There was no lie. Again, I find it interesting how those who claim to dislike both candidates, never hold McCain's feet to the fire on anything at all. McCain has no answers, but most don't know that because they don't seem to care. Yeah, pretty interesting.
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Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2008, 12:42:35 PM »
Using her race and gender in defense of her position? You have to be kidding me. Obviously, she stating why voting is important to her, simply because there was a time in this country in our not too distant past when someone like her couldn't vote at all. Jesus Christ. ..-)
I am not kidding you.

So the reasons why voting is important to her give her the right to call me a coward and a copilot artist?

That sounds more like Dallas's logic than yours. :Confused:

And speaking of JC, please, let's leave your religion out of this! ;-()

Well, Monster you're a cool dude but I think you misunderstood her big time and it kind of shocked me is all.

I think the coward thing was just a little ribbing, a joke :confused1:

"And speaking of JC, please, let's leave your religion out of this"

 :ROFL_2: :ROFL_2: :ROFL_2:

I think I can be described as anything but religious :ROFL_2:
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 12:43:58 PM by Pacer »
Ralphie: I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle! <br /><br />Mrs. Parker: No, you\'ll shoot your eye out.

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2008, 12:48:09 PM »
Using her race and gender in defense of her position? You have to be kidding me. Obviously, she stating why voting is important to her, simply because there was a time in this country in our not too distant past when someone like her couldn't vote at all. Jesus Christ. ..-)
I am not kidding you.

So the reasons why voting is important to her give her the right to call me a coward and a cop-out artist?

That sounds more like Dallas's logic than yours. :Confused:

And speaking of JC, please, let's leave your religion out of this! ;-()

Well, Monster you're a cool dude but I think you misunderstood her big time and it kind of shocked me is all.

I think the coward thing was just a little ribbing, a joke :confused1:
Perhaps I did, and if that's so, I'm embarassed for over-reacting.  Definitely one of my weaknesses! :paper bag:
I think she and I are cool with it.  I respect both you and Dallas and would rather put aside any differences if we cannot discuss them without jeopradizing our current relationships.

Thanks for piping up!  Your input is always welcome!
CONK da ball!!!

Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #70 on: September 01, 2008, 12:51:48 PM »
Using her race and gender in defense of her position? You have to be kidding me. Obviously, she stating why voting is important to her, simply because there was a time in this country in our not too distant past when someone like her couldn't vote at all. Jesus Christ. ..-)
I am not kidding you.

So the reasons why voting is important to her give her the right to call me a coward and a cop-out artist?

That sounds more like Dallas's logic than yours. :Confused:

And speaking of JC, please, let's leave your religion out of this! ;-()

Well, Monster you're a cool dude but I think you misunderstood her big time and it kind of shocked me is all.

I think the coward thing was just a little ribbing, a joke :confused1:
Perhaps I did, and if that's so, I'm embarassed for over-reacting.  Definitely one of my weaknesses! :paper bag:
I think she and I are cool with it.  I respect both you and Dallas and would rather put aside any differences if we cannot discuss them without jeopradizing our current relationships.

Thanks for piping up!  Your input is always welcome!

Mine too!  :rofl_2:
Ralphie: I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle! <br /><br />Mrs. Parker: No, you\'ll shoot your eye out.

Online Dallas

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2008, 12:54:22 PM »
The coward thing was a little joke (I guess that didn't go over well)...but that's cool... We'r'e all cool... so let's move on.... Politics is just a bad subect to debate on. ;-()

Offline The-Raw-Edge

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2008, 01:00:26 PM »
I am SOOOO glad that I slept through all that.  I guess going to work last night was a good thing.  I agree that politics can get pretty heated.  Its probably a good thing to stay away from.

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2008, 01:00:48 PM »
Using her race and gender in defense of her position? You have to be kidding me. Obviously, she stating why voting is important to her, simply because there was a time in this country in our not too distant past when someone like her couldn't vote at all. Jesus Christ. ..-)
I am not kidding you.

So the reasons why voting is important to her give her the right to call me a coward and a copilot artist?

That sounds more like Dallas's logic than yours. :Confused:

And speaking of JC, please, let's leave your religion out of this! ;-()

Well, Monster you're a cool dude but I think you misunderstood her big time and it kind of shocked me is all.

I think the coward thing was just a little ribbing, a joke :confused1:

"And speaking of JC, please, let's leave your religion out of this"

 :ROFL_2: :ROFL_2: :ROFL_2:

I think I can be described as anything but religious :ROFL_2:
I know, that was my poor attempt at humor. :(
CONK da ball!!!

Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2008, 01:09:47 PM »
Using her race and gender in defense of her position? You have to be kidding me. Obviously, she stating why voting is important to her, simply because there was a time in this country in our not too distant past when someone like her couldn't vote at all. Jesus Christ. ..-)
I am not kidding you.

So the reasons why voting is important to her give her the right to call me a coward and a copilot artist?

That sounds more like Dallas's logic than yours. :Confused:

And speaking of JC, please, let's leave your religion out of this! ;-()

Well, Monster you're a cool dude but I think you misunderstood her big time and it kind of shocked me is all.

I think the coward thing was just a little ribbing, a joke :confused1:

"And speaking of JC, please, let's leave your religion out of this"

 :ROFL_2: :ROFL_2: :ROFL_2:

I think I can be described as anything but religious :ROFL_2:
I know, that was my poor attempt at humor. :(

No no, I got it! It was a joke I know. ;-() :))


I wish politics wasn't so touchy we can learn a lot by discussing some things. But I know I can be  really passionate about certain things( maybe it's become I'm still young and not yet jaded :rofl_2:), so maybe it is better not to discuss, I don't want to make any enemies. :rofl_2:

Ralphie: I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle! <br /><br />Mrs. Parker: No, you\'ll shoot your eye out.

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #75 on: September 01, 2008, 01:22:22 PM »
Using her race and gender in defense of her position? You have to be kidding me. Obviously, she stating why voting is important to her, simply because there was a time in this country in our not too distant past when someone like her couldn't vote at all. Jesus Christ. ..-)
I am not kidding you.

So the reasons why voting is important to her give her the right to call me a coward and a copilot artist?

That sounds more like Dallas's logic than yours. :Confused:

And speaking of JC, please, let's leave your religion out of this! ;-()

Well, Monster you're a cool dude but I think you misunderstood her big time and it kind of shocked me is all.

I think the coward thing was just a little ribbing, a joke :confused1:

"And speaking of JC, please, let's leave your religion out of this"

 :ROFL_2: :ROFL_2: :ROFL_2:

I think I can be described as anything but religious :ROFL_2:
I know, that was my poor attempt at humor. :(

No no, I got it! It was a joke I know. ;-() :))


I wish politics wasn't so touchy we can learn a lot by discussing some things. But I know I can be  really passionate about certain things( maybe it's become I'm still young and not yet jaded :rofl_2:), so maybe it is better not to discuss, I don't want to make any enemies. :rofl_2:


Politics plays such an important part in our lives that it's small wonder that the discussion often becomes quite heated.  It's nice to know that you are passionate about some subjects, there are many people who just don't care.  It seems to me there is a growing apathy towards politics in the U. S. which I think is very disturbing.  I guess that's why I took offense when it seemed that Dallas was saying I was a part of that problem!!!

It seems you are already wise beyond your years Grasshopper!  I hope you retain the passion for your ideals and live to represent them. :))

When you mentioned enemies it made me think of this quote:

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.
Sun-tzu
Chinese general & military strategist (~400 BC)
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #76 on: September 01, 2008, 03:16:52 PM »

Now people can talk all they want about Clinton's personal life and his "no sex" comment, but when he was in office, not only was the budget balanced, but we had a SURPLUS!  The economy was going good, the unemployment rate was low....then came 8 years of BUSH and look where we are now.  We definitely can't continue going in the same direction we're going, and since McClain voted 95% WITH BUSH, I don't see anything different with what he will bring to the white house.   Heck, with McClain in office heck, talk about being in 1 war, we may be in 5 or 6!


And this 8 years of economic happiness was a result of Clinton? Is that your contention?
We had 8 years of economic success because of the dot com boom. We had a one two punch of technological/commercial breakthroughs. First the personal computer which carried the economy in the first part of the '90s (and got us out of what was then a recession), then when that started to flag, the internet took the baton and carried it all the way through to 2000. People where making money hand over fist, and companies were springing up like weeds. The surpluses you are talking about was due to that success and the taxes that were brought in because of that success. Bill Clinton didn't invent the personal computer, and despite Al Gore's slip, he didn't invent the internet.
Now, we get to why the economy is in the tank...
Three things happened to shock the economy. First, the Netscape suit against Microsoft that case hit the Supreme Court in 2000. The Supreme Court ruled that Microsoft was a monopoly and recommended that it be split into two companies (which never happened). That sent shock waves throughout the technology sector and caused people to take a closer look at what was going on everywhere else. What they saw was an orgy of spending and irresponsibility that bordered on insanity. Money was flying all over the place and companies were making NOTHING. They were spending it on $1000 chairs for everyone and wild parties. The result of all that was the dot com bust. Companies folded, or were bought up by bigger fish, as fast as they had sprung up. That's strike one.
Second was 9/11. Of course that was Bush's fault. Clearly he should have seen that coming (and I'm not being sarcastic, he and his predecessors should have seen it. That's their responsibility). Strike two.
Third was the shock of multiple large companies going bankrupt. Enron, Worldcom, and a few other high profile blowups started people taking a closer look at how books were being kept, and what they saw was troubling. Strike three.
But the reason these things were possible were a direct result of decisions made during the Clinton administration (9/11 is more of a long standing historical issue so that wouldn't altogether be included in that comment, though he played his part). Regulations were dropped, and changes were made to allow these companies to do some of the things they were doing to get out of control. This was done by Clinton and by Reagan and Bush senior. They are all at fault. Bush Jr is just left with the mess, similar to Herbert Hoover after the 1929 crash. Hoover proved incapable of handling the situation so it just got worse, and we call that the Great Depression. The bottom line is the ball was dropped by Clinton, and wasn't picked up by Bush.
Since then we've had the rise in oil costs driving gas prices through the roof, and the real estate market's bottom dropping out. Now I would suggest that both of those could have been prevented or perhaps helped by the Bush administration. His adventure in Iraq and irresponsible spending have also been deplorable.
Bush has exacerbated the situation is many ways, so no credit to him at all. But don't blame this situation entirely on him. He is just standing on the shoulders of "greatness".
It's amazing how many viewpoints there are of the same era.  Personally, I think the president usually has minimal direct impact on the economy.
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Offline dmastous

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #77 on: September 01, 2008, 04:01:40 PM »

Now people can talk all they want about Clinton's personal life and his "no sex" comment, but when he was in office, not only was the budget balanced, but we had a SURPLUS!  The economy was going good, the unemployment rate was low....then came 8 years of BUSH and look where we are now.  We definitely can't continue going in the same direction we're going, and since McClain voted 95% WITH BUSH, I don't see anything different with what he will bring to the white house.   Heck, with McClain in office heck, talk about being in 1 war, we may be in 5 or 6!


And this 8 years of economic happiness was a result of Clinton? Is that your contention?
We had 8 years of economic success because of the dot com boom. We had a one two punch of technological/commercial breakthroughs. First the personal computer which carried the economy in the first part of the '90s (and got us out of what was then a recession), then when that started to flag, the internet took the baton and carried it all the way through to 2000. People where making money hand over fist, and companies were springing up like weeds. The surpluses you are talking about was due to that success and the taxes that were brought in because of that success. Bill Clinton didn't invent the personal computer, and despite Al Gore's slip, he didn't invent the internet.
Now, we get to why the economy is in the tank...
Three things happened to shock the economy. First, the Netscape suit against Microsoft that case hit the Supreme Court in 2000. The Supreme Court ruled that Microsoft was a monopoly and recommended that it be split into two companies (which never happened). That sent shock waves throughout the technology sector and caused people to take a closer look at what was going on everywhere else. What they saw was an orgy of spending and irresponsibility that bordered on insanity. Money was flying all over the place and companies were making NOTHING. They were spending it on $1000 chairs for everyone and wild parties. The result of all that was the dot com bust. Companies folded, or were bought up by bigger fish, as fast as they had sprung up. That's strike one.
Second was 9/11. Of course that was Bush's fault. Clearly he should have seen that coming (and I'm not being sarcastic, he and his predecessors should have seen it. That's their responsibility). Strike two.
Third was the shock of multiple large companies going bankrupt. Enron, Worldcom, and a few other high profile blowups started people taking a closer look at how books were being kept, and what they saw was troubling. Strike three.
But the reason these things were possible were a direct result of decisions made during the Clinton administration (9/11 is more of a long standing historical issue so that wouldn't altogether be included in that comment, though he played his part). Regulations were dropped, and changes were made to allow these companies to do some of the things they were doing to get out of control. This was done by Clinton and by Reagan and Bush senior. They are all at fault. Bush Jr is just left with the mess, similar to Herbert Hoover after the 1929 crash. Hoover proved incapable of handling the situation so it just got worse, and we call that the Great Depression. The bottom line is the ball was dropped by Clinton, and wasn't picked up by Bush.
Since then we've had the rise in oil costs driving gas prices through the roof, and the real estate market's bottom dropping out. Now I would suggest that both of those could have been prevented or perhaps helped by the Bush administration. His adventure in Iraq and irresponsible spending have also been deplorable.
Bush has exacerbated the situation is many ways, so no credit to him at all. But don't blame this situation entirely on him. He is just standing on the shoulders of "greatness".
It's amazing how many viewpoints there are of the same era.  Personally, I think the president usually has minimal direct impact on the economy.

You have a different viewpoint? What is it?

Is a tree as a rocking horse
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Offline Pacer

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #78 on: September 01, 2008, 04:05:54 PM »
Using her race and gender in defense of her position? You have to be kidding me. Obviously, she stating why voting is important to her, simply because there was a time in this country in our not too distant past when someone like her couldn't vote at all. Jesus Christ. ..-)
I am not kidding you.

So the reasons why voting is important to her give her the right to call me a coward and a copilot artist?

That sounds more like Dallas's logic than yours. :Confused:

And speaking of JC, please, let's leave your religion out of this! ;-()

Well, Monster you're a cool dude but I think you misunderstood her big time and it kind of shocked me is all.

I think the coward thing was just a little ribbing, a joke :confused1:

"And speaking of JC, please, let's leave your religion out of this"

 :ROFL_2: :ROFL_2: :ROFL_2:

I think I can be described as anything but religious :ROFL_2:
I know, that was my poor attempt at humor. :(

No no, I got it! It was a joke I know. ;-() :))


I wish politics wasn't so touchy we can learn a lot by discussing some things. But I know I can be  really passionate about certain things( maybe it's become I'm still young and not yet jaded :rofl_2:), so maybe it is better not to discuss, I don't want to make any enemies. :rofl_2:


Politics plays such an important part in our lives that it's small wonder that the discussion often becomes quite heated.  It's nice to know that you are passionate about some subjects, there are many people who just don't care.  It seems to me there is a growing apathy towards politics in the U. S. which I think is very disturbing.  I guess that's why I took offense when it seemed that Dallas was saying I was a part of that problem!!!

It seems you are already wise beyond your years Grasshopper!  I hope you retain the passion for your ideals and live to represent them. :))

When you mentioned enemies it made me think of this quote:

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.
Sun-tzu
Chinese general & military strategist (~400 BC)


I've noticed this too, and most of them tend to be in my age group(18-30). Which is sad, since we should be most concerned. I think most are just tired of false promises so they don't even bother voting anymore.  :(

I wonder if it's different in other countries, I've always wanted to live in Australia. :))

I love Chinese philosophy by the way. ;-()
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 04:06:33 PM by Pacer »
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Obama Offers a Beautifully Packaged Lie
« Reply #79 on: September 01, 2008, 04:06:00 PM »

Now people can talk all they want about Clinton's personal life and his "no sex" comment, but when he was in office, not only was the budget balanced, but we had a SURPLUS!  The economy was going good, the unemployment rate was low....then came 8 years of BUSH and look where we are now.  We definitely can't continue going in the same direction we're going, and since McClain voted 95% WITH BUSH, I don't see anything different with what he will bring to the white house.   Heck, with McClain in office heck, talk about being in 1 war, we may be in 5 or 6!


And this 8 years of economic happiness was a result of Clinton? Is that your contention?
We had 8 years of economic success because of the dot com boom. We had a one two punch of technological/commercial breakthroughs. First the personal computer which carried the economy in the first part of the '90s (and got us out of what was then a recession), then when that started to flag, the internet took the baton and carried it all the way through to 2000. People where making money hand over fist, and companies were springing up like weeds. The surpluses you are talking about was due to that success and the taxes that were brought in because of that success. Bill Clinton didn't invent the personal computer, and despite Al Gore's slip, he didn't invent the internet.
Now, we get to why the economy is in the tank...
Three things happened to shock the economy. First, the Netscape suit against Microsoft that case hit the Supreme Court in 2000. The Supreme Court ruled that Microsoft was a monopoly and recommended that it be split into two companies (which never happened). That sent shock waves throughout the technology sector and caused people to take a closer look at what was going on everywhere else. What they saw was an orgy of spending and irresponsibility that bordered on insanity. Money was flying all over the place and companies were making NOTHING. They were spending it on $1000 chairs for everyone and wild parties. The result of all that was the dot com bust. Companies folded, or were bought up by bigger fish, as fast as they had sprung up. That's strike one.
Second was 9/11. Of course that was Bush's fault. Clearly he should have seen that coming (and I'm not being sarcastic, he and his predecessors should have seen it. That's their responsibility). Strike two.
Third was the shock of multiple large companies going bankrupt. Enron, Worldcom, and a few other high profile blowups started people taking a closer look at how books were being kept, and what they saw was troubling. Strike three.
But the reason these things were possible were a direct result of decisions made during the Clinton administration (9/11 is more of a long standing historical issue so that wouldn't altogether be included in that comment, though he played his part). Regulations were dropped, and changes were made to allow these companies to do some of the things they were doing to get out of control. This was done by Clinton and by Reagan and Bush senior. They are all at fault. Bush Jr is just left with the mess, similar to Herbert Hoover after the 1929 crash. Hoover proved incapable of handling the situation so it just got worse, and we call that the Great Depression. The bottom line is the ball was dropped by Clinton, and wasn't picked up by Bush.
Since then we've had the rise in oil costs driving gas prices through the roof, and the real estate market's bottom dropping out. Now I would suggest that both of those could have been prevented or perhaps helped by the Bush administration. His adventure in Iraq and irresponsible spending have also been deplorable.
Bush has exacerbated the situation is many ways, so no credit to him at all. But don't blame this situation entirely on him. He is just standing on the shoulders of "greatness".
It's amazing how many viewpoints there are of the same era.  Personally, I think the president usually has minimal direct impact on the economy.

You have a different viewpoint? What is it?
I happen to agree with your assessment!

However, I did a little poking around and it appears that the history books will portray the economy during the Clinton era a bit differently. :(  Start at the Wiki and go from there. 

To think that one man controls the economy of the U.S. is beyond my comprehension.
CONK da ball!!!