Author Topic: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1  (Read 292609 times)

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Offline Emma

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6200 on: February 03, 2009, 01:27:54 PM »
I think Fed feels like he is letting a lot of people down by not living up to the high expectations that come with being a possible GOAT. He is expected to break Pete's record and he feels he is not living up to that expectation, and he knows it's only going to get tougher from here. Which is why he teared up even more when the crowd began to cheer.

I agree with you completely.
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Offline Emma

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6201 on: February 03, 2009, 01:44:39 PM »
QUOTE BY EMMA :

I am trying to recognize the actress in your avatar. She looks familiar. Who is she?

Anyway, I always thought Roger was mentally a bit fragile. I said that as soon as I started posting on this very forum and I got a lot of slack for it. That was last year in September right after USO. Only Kitten supported me. When you age normally you tend to get a bit weaker mentally no doubt. But more importantly, look at the players he beat back in those days. Andre or Henman are really not good examples. Both way past their prime can only threat Fed so much. I don't really believe Fed ever faced any tough opponents during his era other than Nadal but that only happened on clay. I don't think Fed's mental ability was truly tested all those years. It's only recently when he was up against players like Nadal, Nole and Murray all real players with real talent, he started showing the fragile side of his, if you noticed. Federer has absolutely no idea how to deal with them. Chances are he will never be able to deal with it. Both Nadal and Murray have his numbers and Fed is not aging backwards. I feel he is truly aware of the circumstances and it's freaking him out and that outburst at the AO was merely a sign of what he was feeling inside. The only way I see him recovering from this situation if he just let it go. He's not letting it go. He had a hard time coping with the fact that he's no longer the number one. He kept talking about how he was going to take it back. Well, Nadal kind of set the record straight this Sunday night that he's not going anywhere. So obviously, he's being a bit delusional and not thinking realistically. He should just let it go, free himself up and just play the sport he loves so much. He shouldn't worry about breaking the record so much either. It will come when it's time. If not, then it was never meant to be. He desperately needs to make peace with that first. One thing at a time I would say.

What he did though, he spoiled both himself and his fans up to the point that they both are in serious denial. This slam was more like a reality check for both his fans and himself. You guys are putting a lot of unnecessary pressure on everything. I think I would be happy with 13 slams. When I was a fan of Pete, I wanted him to retire when he wasn't doing well in 2000 and 2001, and I made peace with it. But he still went on and won one more slam so that was a bonus for me. I think Fed fans should be this way too and not expect too much. Come what they may. Easy does it, really.


We shall never agree on this I'm afraid. I think we're making too much out of this. If he doesn't have the mental fortitude against Nadal, how come it didn't show in the Wimby final 06? Coming into that match, Roger had lost to Nadal in the final of Dubai ( where Roger was going for his 5th straight title ), the final of Monte Carlo and Rome ( where he had two MPs ) and a heartbreaking finals loss at Roland Garros after winning the first set 6-1. That was his first RG final, and he was hurt big time afterwards at the trophy presentation as his childhood idol Edberg presented the silverware to Nadal. It would have been a dream come true for him to receive that from Stefan. Now, back to the Wimbledon final that year, Rog came into that match at 1-6 against Rafa. 1-6!! Rafa had his number big time..5 straight defeats! And he was serving awesome was Rafa, had held serve 84 straight times through the fortnight, he was on a roll..having gone through Agassi easily in the process. NOW, if Roger had this mental problem against Rafa, he would have gone down to him that day too. and the following year..in 2007, where again he was playing Rafa on the back of successive heartbreaking defeats to him on the Parisian clay. So I'm sorry I cant agree with you totally.

Where we do agree is that Sampras was way more tougher mentally. Which makes Roger even more of a fascinating champion...a player for whom mental strength does not come naturally, for someone like that to overcome his failings and go on a winning spree for four years is an inspiration for players like Gasquet, Berdych, Nalbandian etc. I mean Roger is part Sampras, part Gasquet in the head and still achieves so much...its a more amazing story and thats why Roger is the most popular tennis player the world has ever seen.

TO be honest I'm a bit exhausted at reading too much into Sunday's match. Again, if he becomes a mental midget against Nadal, how did he overcome the disappointment of losing that 3rd set the way he did, and then win the 4th? He could have easily crumbled in the 4th. No, I just think in the 5th with the finish line so close, he choked and Rafa became even stronger. It was one match. If you recall Sampras v Rafter at Wimbledon 2000, Sampras was making it tighter than it should have been..he was feeling the pressure too of that record breaking slam. But luckily for him he wasnt facing Rafa. I believe you put Rafa in any era and he will make the champions of that era struggle.

I'm more interested in how Roger responds to this latest setback, and also how he will fare against Nadal in the future. Its ok what you say about being in denial and giving Pete's 2000-20002 run as an example. Well, Roger is not at that stage now, he's not 30. I know I may be wrong about this, but I believe Roger will come out stronger as a result of this latest setback. He's got a lot of time. He's still got the game. In a way, its good that he lost, now he will be the clear underdog against Rafa in the future on  any surface. It might make him play with more aggression. We shall see.

I just think we're reading too much into one match. I think Wimbledon 08 hurt him way more than this, but he came back to win the USO. I wouldn't write off Roger yet. I agree he's facing the stiffest challenge he's ever faced now, but it will make him stronger. It has to. Time will tell. I still have faith in the guy. I'm sure if you ask Pete right now he'd say the same thing about his mate Roger...that he will come back with a vengeance.

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[/quote]

For now, I can only say that you think of Rafa as someone who's this beast who just doesn't go away. I don't think that to be true. He's beatable. Rafa's game is not clean. His serve is also something to think about. Canít' volley much either. Rafa also hasn't met much of a competition from anyone other than Roger and you know where that stands these days. It's true that these two are far superior than the rest of the field but the opposite is true as well. But that will all change. In fact, Rafa will be in trouble in the near future and the threat will be coming from the younger players. Both Nole and Murray will be constant threat to Nadal especially Murray. I am not going to say much but just watch how things unfold.

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Offline Tennis4you

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6202 on: February 03, 2009, 01:50:18 PM »
I think it was handled perfectly fine.  He held back what he could, I think he did a great job.  Heaven forbid we know how a tennis player feels.  I have no less respect for him after this, shoot, I might have more.

It struck me this morning that the pattern followed an exact experience I had last fall.  My dog was very sick and we were about to go on vaca, so I called a friend in Cincy to see if he could watch my dog for me.  I knew ahead of time what the topic of conversation was going to be - what happened if he got worse, etc.  I had everything straight in my head and felt fine, then called him and started to talk about it....but I couldn't say a word.  I completely lost it.  Why?  Because in some way, speaking it made it real in a way that it hadn't been before.  And then there's no time to deal with it - you're trying to talk.  Fortunately, I didn't have 15000 people listening to me, and I don't think my friend held it against me (maybe he thinks I'm "soft" now?).  I really don't think it's uncommon - it happens at funerals quite a bit as well.  Now, maybe Fed should be admonished for having it be such a big deal to him, but it's clear that it was a big deal.  But my main point is:  there's a reason why he broke down when he tried to speak, and why he couldn't "save it for the towel or the locker room".  Of course, not everyone is like this - it's clear that a couple of posters on this forum consider crying so foreign that they're having trouble relating.  I guess I'm not in that category.

I'll also point out one other famous crying incident that occurred a few years ago - Sampras breaking down in his AO semi against Courier (is that right?), after Gully had just been diagnosed with cancer.  That was in the middle of the match.  Pretty traumatic, I wasn't even a Sampras fan at the time and I got choked up - no shame in that in my book.  And another thing:  I don't think anyone would use this incident to question Sampras' mental tenacity.  Different circumstances, but really, there was alot of history riding on this AO final.  Many of Fed's goals, which seemed very reachable just a couple years ago, look seriously in doubt now.

Wait a minute!  Are you trying to say you have recently gotten soft and that is why I won the last set we played?  Always trying to find excuses!  :)~
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Online Babblelot

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6203 on: February 03, 2009, 02:04:47 PM »
I'll also point out one other famous crying incident that occurred a few years ago - Sampras breaking down in his AO semi against Courier (is that right?), after Gully had just been diagnosed with cancer.  That was in the middle of the match.  Pretty traumatic, I wasn't even a Sampras fan at the time and I got choked up - no shame in that in my book.  And another thing:  I don't think anyone would use this incident to question Sampras' mental tenacity.  Different circumstances, but really, there was alot of history riding on this AO final.  Many of Fed's goals, which seemed very reachable just a couple years ago, look seriously in doubt now.

There are two sides to the story, but you are right, people don't question Pete's mental tenacity. Remember how that went? The crowd was unaware of the situation. Courier said, "We can do this tomorrow," and the crowd roared with laughter. Pete flipped it off and destroyed Courier.

The other side isn't relevant to a discussion of Pete's "mental tenacity."
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 02:17:41 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline The Comeback Kid

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6204 on: February 03, 2009, 02:16:31 PM »
Yea I expect Murray and Djokovic to challenge Nadal in the future too, how much though is anyone's guess. I think Murray has got more potential to do so. We shall see. One thing's certain ; It won't be easy for any player, including Nadal. There's loads of amazing players out there, and you never know who's going to have a stunning week or two.

Offline FreeBird

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6205 on: February 03, 2009, 02:35:09 PM »

Wait a minute!  Are you trying to say you have recently gotten soft and that is why I won the last set we played?  Always trying to find excuses!  :)~

My new year's resolution was to begin to search for some excuses for you.  Because you're going to need a litany of them this year, homeslice!!!!

 :whistle:
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Offline Emma

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6206 on: February 03, 2009, 02:38:36 PM »
I'll also point out one other famous crying incident that occurred a few years ago - Sampras breaking down in his AO semi against Courier (is that right?), after Gully had just been diagnosed with cancer.  That was in the middle of the match.  Pretty traumatic, I wasn't even a Sampras fan at the time and I got choked up - no shame in that in my book.  And another thing:  I don't think anyone would use this incident to question Sampras' mental tenacity.  Different circumstances, but really, there was alot of history riding on this AO final.  Many of Fed's goals, which seemed very reachable just a couple years ago, look seriously in doubt now.

There are two sides to the story, but you are right, people don't question Pete's mental tenacity. Remember how that went? The crowd was unaware of the situation. Courier said, "We can do this tomorrow," and the crowd roared with laughter. Pete flipped it off and destroyed Courier.

The other side isn't relevant to a discussion of Pete's "mental tenacity."

Freebird is stealing my moment. I already talked about it right after the crying incident. Pete actually found out Tim's illness the night before, so it all came as a real shock to him. I remember crying more than him. Actually, I am a cry baby myself so I cut slack when other people cry. If you say to my ex that I am rough and tough then he would literally roll on the floor laughing uncontrollably. He has the ability to make me jealous even with a remote control. And then of course the crying starts...I am seriously pathetic in a relationhip or when it comes to tennis.
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Offline jeffrx

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6207 on: February 03, 2009, 02:39:29 PM »
I'll also point out one other famous crying incident that occurred a few years ago - Sampras breaking down in his AO semi against Courier (is that right?), after Gully had just been diagnosed with cancer.  That was in the middle of the match.  Pretty traumatic, I wasn't even a Sampras fan at the time and I got choked up - no shame in that in my book.  And another thing:  I don't think anyone would use this incident to question Sampras' mental tenacity.  Different circumstances, but really, there was alot of history riding on this AO final.  Many of Fed's goals, which seemed very reachable just a couple years ago, look seriously in doubt now.

There are two sides to the story, but you are right, people don't question Pete's mental tenacity. Remember how that went? The crowd was unaware of the situation. Courier said, "We can do this tomorrow," and the crowd roared with laughter. Pete flipped it off and destroyed Courier.

The other side isn't relevant to a discussion of Pete's "mental tenacity."

Big difference between a Hall of Fame acceptance, in which case your career is over and all of the emotions hit as you look back on a lifetime of work, and losing a single match to a great rival.  In my opinion, they are 2 different things completely.  Scott has more respect for federer after this, which is fine.  I like Scott and am thankful for this site.  But, to counterbalance him, I will say I have less respect for Federer now.  His display of uncontrollable tears was very lame in my opinion.  Not only is he being made fun of by the entire sports world right now, but he also stole Nadal's moment in the sun and made it a very awkward experience.

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Offline Emma

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6208 on: February 03, 2009, 02:44:16 PM »
Yea I expect Murray and Djokovic to challenge Nadal in the future too, how much though is anyone's guess. I think Murray has got more potential to do so. We shall see. One thing's certain ; It won't be easy for any player, including Nadal. There's loads of amazing players out there, and you never know who's going to have a stunning week or two.

I just want to be happy with what you've got. I know what I had to say so far didn't make you very happy, but know it is my opinion after all, based on what I saw so far. What you believe should be more important to you. Every king has his enemies and so will Nadal. Maybe then you can take some comfort in that. You think of Nadal as a beast who's just not letting Federer breaking Pete's record. To be honest, I feel the same about Federer. He's a prick to me who's trying to break Pete's record and so soon. I haven't even dealt with the fact that he's no longer playing. Or else why do you see me talking about him all the time?
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Offline FreeBird

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6209 on: February 03, 2009, 02:57:41 PM »

Freebird is stealing my moment. I already talked about it right after the crying incident. Pete actually found out Tim's illness the night before, so it all came as a real shock to him. I remember crying more than him. Actually, I am a cry baby myself so I cut slack when other people cry. If you say to my ex that I am rough and tough then he would literally roll on the floor laughing uncontrollably. He has the ability to make me jealous even with a remote control. And then of course the crying starts...I am seriously pathetic in a relationhip or when it comes to tennis.

Didn't do that intentionally Emma, my apologies.  I stayed away from the site during the final because I watched the match delayed and didn't want to spoil it for myself.  Then I was too lazy to go back and catch up on 30 pages of posts :)
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Offline OSU Buckeye

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6210 on: February 03, 2009, 03:55:23 PM »
I'll also point out one other famous crying incident that occurred a few years ago - Sampras breaking down in his AO semi against Courier (is that right?), after Gully had just been diagnosed with cancer.  That was in the middle of the match.  Pretty traumatic, I wasn't even a Sampras fan at the time and I got choked up - no shame in that in my book.  And another thing:  I don't think anyone would use this incident to question Sampras' mental tenacity.  Different circumstances, but really, there was alot of history riding on this AO final.  Many of Fed's goals, which seemed very reachable just a couple years ago, look seriously in doubt now.

There are two sides to the story, but you are right, people don't question Pete's mental tenacity. Remember how that went? The crowd was unaware of the situation. Courier said, "We can do this tomorrow," and the crowd roared with laughter. Pete flipped it off and destroyed Courier.

The other side isn't relevant to a discussion of Pete's "mental tenacity."

Big difference between a Hall of Fame acceptance, in which case your career is over and all of the emotions hit as you look back on a lifetime of work, and losing a single match to a great rival.  In my opinion, they are 2 different things completely.  Scott has more respect for federer after this, which is fine.  I like Scott and am thankful for this site.  But, to counterbalance him, I will say I have less respect for Federer now.  His display of uncontrollable tears was very lame in my opinion.  Not only is he being made fun of by the entire sports world right now, but he also stole Nadal's moment in the sun and made it a very awkward experience.

Pass the popcorn, please.

You are being more stubborn on this than anyone else.  I can't believe you would (if you do) think that Fed did any of it intentionally.  He did not choose to do that.  It was bad timing and he himself knows that and regrets how it went down.  But, the real question is why is it so bothersome to you that Fed cried?  Do you have a problem with men showing that kind of emotion in general? 

Plus, you are being defensive..........of tennis, worrying that other people think tennis is a wimpy sport because of things like Fed's crying.  You know tennis rules so why can't you say screw what anyone else thinks.  If they want to think tennis is a wimpy sport and not give it a chance then it is their loss and weakness.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 03:57:31 PM by OSU Buckeye »

Offline euroka1

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6211 on: February 03, 2009, 04:14:35 PM »
To add variety to all this, remember the time when Pete threw up into a flowerpot in the middle of a match   :sick: ..-) ?
I think that was the AO back in the 1990s.
Sorry, Dallas  :( . These things are never forgotten. We recall them decades later.

Offline Tennis4you

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6212 on: February 03, 2009, 04:15:45 PM »

Wait a minute!  Are you trying to say you have recently gotten soft and that is why I won the last set we played?  Always trying to find excuses!  :)~

My new year's resolution was to begin to search for some excuses for you.  Because you're going to need a litany of them this year, homeslice!!!!

 :whistle:

Excuses for not beating you 6-0 maybe...  I can live with 6-1 if I have to.
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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6213 on: February 03, 2009, 04:18:02 PM »
To add variety to all this, remember the time when Pete threw up into a flowerpot in the middle of a match   :sick: ..-) ?
I think that was the AO back in the 1990s.
Sorry, Dallas  :( . These things are never forgotten. We recall them decades later.

Are you referring to what we've been discussing for a page now?  :rofl_2:
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Offline Tennis4you

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6214 on: February 03, 2009, 04:19:26 PM »
To add variety to all this, remember the time when Pete threw up into a flowerpot in the middle of a match   :sick: ..-) ?
I think that was the AO back in the 1990s.
Sorry, Dallas  :( . These things are never forgotten. We recall them decades later.

Was that against Corretja at the USO only to win the tournament a few rounds later?  Saving at least one match point in the process?  What a match!!!
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Offline FreeBird

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6215 on: February 03, 2009, 04:22:51 PM »
To add variety to all this, remember the time when Pete threw up into a flowerpot in the middle of a match   :sick: ..-) ?
I think that was the AO back in the 1990s.
Sorry, Dallas  :( . These things are never forgotten. We recall them decades later.

I hope they're never forgotten!  They're the only moments where I can recall feeling any sort of positive emotion for Sampras, until he was past his prime :)  The guy was truly a remarkable fighter.
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Offline FreeBird

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6216 on: February 03, 2009, 04:29:40 PM »

You are being more stubborn on this than anyone else.  I can't believe you would (if you do) think that Fed did any of it intentionally.  He did not choose to do that.  It was bad timing and he himself knows that and regrets how it went down.  But, the real question is why is it so bothersome to you that Fed cried?  Do you have a problem with men showing that kind of emotion in general? 

Plus, you are being defensive..........of tennis, worrying that other people think tennis is a wimpy sport because of things like Fed's crying.  You know tennis rules so why can't you say screw what anyone else thinks.  If they want to think tennis is a wimpy sport and not give it a chance then it is their loss and weakness.

FWIW, I didn't think Jeffrx implied that Fed's outburst was intentional - just that it was very inappropriate and I guess also indicative of some substantive part of his personality in general.

I agree with the part about being defensive of tennis - screw what others think about it.  Heck, a main reason I like tennis is that it's wimpy - it's as non-contact as you can get!  If you're gonna get an injury in tennis, 99 times out of 100 you're going to do it to yourself - and that's awesome in my book.
Good luck on the court is nice to have, but it's usually extraneous when playing against Baker.

Offline euroka1

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6217 on: February 03, 2009, 04:33:42 PM »
To add variety to all this, remember the time when Pete threw up into a flowerpot in the middle of a match   :sick: ..-) ?
I think that was the AO back in the 1990s.
Sorry, Dallas  :( . These things are never forgotten. We recall them decades later.

Was that against Corretja at the USO only to win the tournament a few rounds later?  Saving at least one match point in the process?  What a match!!!

Yes, Scott, background memory has been at work and says now that it was the USO and that he won anyway! It was, at the time, as they say, awkward.

Offline Dallas

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6218 on: February 03, 2009, 04:51:43 PM »
Hey guys!  How's the weather?  How is everyone doing? :rofl_2:

I told you guys I was through with that incident.  I've put it behind me.  If other's can't - it's there loss.   ;-()

Reading all those comments - heck, I'm with Babbs.  Move over and make room for me so we can share the popcorn! :rofl_2:




Offline kittens25

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Re: ATP - 2009 Australian Open: Jan. 19 - Feb. 1
« Reply #6219 on: February 03, 2009, 05:40:35 PM »
You know tennis rules so why can't you say screw what anyone else thinks.

It would be nice to take that mindset but unfortunately it is well documented tennis isnt pulling in the ratings and interest, atleast in the U.S, that is once did.   Like it or not the sport has to work to attract as many the casual type fan as possible to improve that.