Topic: Emotions, Games and Winning

[pawan89]

So, I was intrigued by this paragraph from tennis.com on Davydenko in his match vs. Djokovic

Fortunately for Djokovic, he was playing the ever placid and routine-oriented Davydenko, who refrained from getting fired up even after this reprieve. This gave Djokovic the emotional space to calm down and go back to business without having to think about what his opponent was doing. Lesson to anyone who plays tennis: Even if you’re behind, show some fire when you see that your opponent’s nerves are getting to him; it will confirm in his mind that blowing the match is a possibility, which will increase his anxiety even more. Davydenko predictably kept his head down and failed to change the dynamics of this match. Djokovic settled back in, broke serve, and held routinely for the title.

I know we have discussed quite a few times about certain players and how we like or how we don't like it if they do fist pumps or stay calm etc, but I don't know if we ever had a poll. So this is obviously very open to interpretation. A fist pump from someone like Davydenko might not be taken in the same spirit as a fist pump from Nadal or Djokovic or Hewitt. So personal biases aside (kinda hard, obviously we pick our players based on what we like to see)..

Do you think a player is 'allowed' to play tricks and mindgames and even push the limits of manners to win the game. Or should a player be focused only on his tennis and win from there.

By tricks, mindgames and such I mean a variety of things - some things fall under acceptable by some people, some dont. Over-active emotional bursts even if it isn't enitrely deserved at the moment,  not always necessary line call challenges or complaints .. increasing/decreasing pace of the game based on your situation.. and even outside the point/game things like smashing the ball into the courts... things like that.

so for example that situation in the quote above. If Davydenko has stepped outside his character and tried to show emotion or fire, he probably would have played some mindgames on Djokovic and maybe fire himself more and win the set. Instead he let Djokovic who is gifted in more than just tennis to come back into the match. Davydenko was trying to win with his tennis alone and that's what he does, that's him.

Ideally of course there should be a balance (I think at least) so a player knows how to capitalize on crowd support, momentum turns and such and learn to not only up his game but also bring down the opponent's game but again he should do it properly. Taking injury timeouts for example is just ugly if you are doing that to mess up your opponent. 

[Alex]

I like Nole when he shows how he feels. I was also very happy to see Roger showing his emotions at the USO this year. I think it's cool. They are humans after all. Davydenko is different. I don't think these players are playing any mind games. I might be naive tho 

[jeffrx]

I like emothion, that is fine.  Fist pumping, smiling, smashing...whatever. 

What I DO NOT LIKE is unneeded breaks, delay tactics, complaining, yelling at line judges or opponent, and all of that crap.

There is a fine line that should not be crossed. 

[OSU Buckeye]

Simple Dr. P.   Players should not do anything (gamesmanship) intentionally to purposely mess up the opposing players mentality but I feel that all players should play with a passion and intensity, if that is the way they like to be.  Personally, I like to play with intensity and passion but that is the way I am.  Tennis is all about good sportsmanship so gamesmanship just doesn't belong.     That is my 2 cents.  

[euroka1]

Compelled to put in my vote!
OSU and Jeff together sum up my feelings.

[fleabitten]

It seems that the results are going to be strange because 1 & 3 are kinda the same thing and 2 & 4 are kinda the same.  If I coulda picked two answers, I would have had to go with 1 & 3, but I just went with 3.  Who can argue with that comment - a winner has to do all he can to win.  Obviously cheating is not an option, but do everything you can within the rules.  When in doubt, check the rulebook - it's that easy.

flea

[wilsonboy]

I love tennis...
Nothing as trivial as emotions is gonna turn me off.
I just don't particularly like when they start the mind games.

[Babblelot]

You guys set up too many choices for such a small sample. There's enough overlap in your options that you can narrow it down to 3 choices and have more interesting results.

[pawan89]

You guys set up too many choices for such a small sample. There's enough overlap in your options that you can narrow it down to 3 choices and have more interesting results.

Yeah.. i made a mistake with that one for sure.

[monstertruck]

Compelled to put in my vote!
OSU and Jeff together sum up my feelings.

Ditto.

 

[Babblelot]

First, I enjoy some hate on the tour. IMO, the mutual admiration society takes the competitive legs out from under players. IMO, tennis is more interesting with villans and matches are more entertaining when there's genuine dislike between the players... and they show it! a la 2005 DC Hewitt-Coria and 2005 USO Coria-Massu. Good stuff 

Secondly, and more generally, I enjoy watching self-depricating emotional outburst. Safin, Gaudio, Haas, Malisse... you'll find all of these guys in among my favorite players.

 

[conchita]

couldnt care less! 

[Caleb3293]

couldnt care less! 

Agreed.  Personally this stuff doesn't get to me.

[BGT]

First, I enjoy some hate on the tour. IMO, the mutual admiration society takes the competitive legs out from under players. IMO, tennis is more interesting with villans and matches are more entertaining when there's genuine dislike between the players... and they show it! a la 2005 DC Hewitt-Coria and 2005 USO Coria-Massu. Good stuff 

Secondly, and more generally, I enjoy watching self-depricating emotional outburst. Safin, Gaudio, Haas, Malisse... you'll find all of these guys in among my favorite players.

 

Ooh, I remember those. Especially the Coria-Massu one. And I've seen some of Coria-Hewitt on youtube. So funny

[kickserve]

I don't mind a bit of needle but there are limits: aiming a ball at a player to jam them up is fine, aiming it at their face is unacceptable. Taing too long between points is OK if it's out of habit (nadal) but taking extra long on the big points (Djokovic doing 30+ bounces on big points) is out of order. Oh, and stuff like Gonzo at the Olympics is doing what it takes to win but that's way over the limit.

[monstertruck]

I don't mind a bit of needle but there are limits: aiming a ball at a player to jam them up is fine, aiming it at their face is unacceptable. Taing too long between points is OK if it's out of habit (nadal) but taking extra long on the big points (Djokovic doing 30+ bounces on big points) is out of order. Oh, and stuff like Gonzo at the Olympics is doing what it takes to win but that's way over the limit.

Habitual rules infractions are ok if done out of 'habit'?
Which rules are ok to break?
Are only the top seeds allowed to do this?

[kickserve]

I don't mind a bit of needle but there are limits: aiming a ball at a player to jam them up is fine, aiming it at their face is unacceptable. Taing too long between points is OK if it's out of habit (nadal) but taking extra long on the big points (Djokovic doing 30+ bounces on big points) is out of order. Oh, and stuff like Gonzo at the Olympics is doing what it takes to win but that's way over the limit.

Habitual rules infractions are ok if done out of 'habit'?
Which rules are ok to break?
Are only the top seeds allowed to do this?

No, I'm differentiating between the intent. Nadal takes time between points because he needs to to prepare himself for the point. Djokovic takes longer on big points only, which I think is intentional to put opponents off. They are both breaking the rules, but Nadal does it for more acceptable reasons.

[monstertruck]

I don't mind a bit of needle but there are limits: aiming a ball at a player to jam them up is fine, aiming it at their face is unacceptable. Taing too long between points is OK if it's out of habit (nadal) but taking extra long on the big points (Djokovic doing 30+ bounces on big points) is out of order. Oh, and stuff like Gonzo at the Olympics is doing what it takes to win but that's way over the limit.

Habitual rules infractions are ok if done out of 'habit'?
Which rules are ok to break?
Are only the top seeds allowed to do this?

No, I'm differentiating between the intent. Nadal takes time between points because he needs to to prepare himself for the point. Djokovic takes longer on big points only, which I think is intentional to put opponents off. They are both breaking the rules, but Nadal does it for more acceptable reasons.

By that 'logic' it's acceptable to break any rule as long as there is no intent?

[falcon]

I don't mind a bit of needle but there are limits: aiming a ball at a player to jam them up is fine, aiming it at their face is unacceptable. Taing too long between points is OK if it's out of habit (nadal) but taking extra long on the big points (Djokovic doing 30+ bounces on big points) is out of order. Oh, and stuff like Gonzo at the Olympics is doing what it takes to win but that's way over the limit.

Habitual rules infractions are ok if done out of 'habit'?
Which rules are ok to break?
Are only the top seeds allowed to do this?

No, I'm differentiating between the intent. Nadal takes time between points because he needs to to prepare himself for the point. Djokovic takes longer on big points only, which I think is intentional to put opponents off. They are both breaking the rules, but Nadal does it for more acceptable reasons.

How do you know it that he does it intentionally? may be he gets a little stressed out on big points and that's perhaps his way of destressing 

[Babblelot]

I don't mind a bit of needle but there are limits: aiming a ball at a player to jam them up is fine, aiming it at their face is unacceptable. Taing too long between points is OK if it's out of habit (nadal) but taking extra long on the big points (Djokovic doing 30+ bounces on big points) is out of order. Oh, and stuff like Gonzo at the Olympics is doing what it takes to win but that's way over the limit.

Habitual rules infractions are ok if done out of 'habit'?
Which rules are ok to break?
Are only the top seeds allowed to do this?

No, I'm differentiating between the intent. Nadal takes time between points because he needs to to prepare himself for the point. Djokovic takes longer on big points only, which I think is intentional to put opponents off. They are both breaking the rules, but Nadal does it for more acceptable reasons.

By that 'logic' it's acceptable to break any rule as long as there is no intent?

I think he's trying to say, "I can't stand Djokovic."