Poll

Should a player show emotion, play games, do whatever it takes to win?

It's part of the game, I enjoy it.
6 (24%)
It's part of the game, I wish it weren't.
2 (8%)
A winner should utilize all he has and win.
3 (12%)
A winner should win with his tennis, not games.
11 (44%)
I could care less.
3 (12%)

Total Members Voted: 25

Author Topic: Emotions, Games and Winning  (Read 8108 times)

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Offline kickserve

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2008, 10:59:29 AM »
I don't mind a bit of needle but there are limits: aiming a ball at a player to jam them up is fine, aiming it at their face is unacceptable. Taing too long between points is OK if it's out of habit (nadal) but taking extra long on the big points (Djokovic doing 30+ bounces on big points) is out of order. Oh, and stuff like Gonzo at the Olympics is doing what it takes to win but that's way over the limit.
Habitual rules infractions are ok if done out of 'habit'? :confused1:
Which rules are ok to break?
Are only the top seeds allowed to do this?

No, I'm differentiating between the intent. Nadal takes time between points because he needs to to prepare himself for the point. Djokovic takes longer on big points only, which I think is intentional to put opponents off. They are both breaking the rules, but Nadal does it for more acceptable reasons.
By that 'logic' it's acceptable to break any rule as long as there is no intent?

I think he's trying to say, "I can't stand Djokovic."

Not at all. I'm not a fan of his but I can 'stand' him. I just get the feeling watching Nadal that he isn't trying to take too long, he just takes a long time naturally, whereas I think Djokovic artificially puts it on for big points: there's no need to bounce the ball 30 times.

Online Babblelot

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2008, 03:10:24 PM »
I don't mind a bit of needle but there are limits: aiming a ball at a player to jam them up is fine, aiming it at their face is unacceptable. Taing too long between points is OK if it's out of habit (nadal) but taking extra long on the big points (Djokovic doing 30+ bounces on big points) is out of order. Oh, and stuff like Gonzo at the Olympics is doing what it takes to win but that's way over the limit.
Habitual rules infractions are ok if done out of 'habit'? :confused1:
Which rules are ok to break?
Are only the top seeds allowed to do this?

No, I'm differentiating between the intent. Nadal takes time between points because he needs to to prepare himself for the point. Djokovic takes longer on big points only, which I think is intentional to put opponents off. They are both breaking the rules, but Nadal does it for more acceptable reasons.
By that 'logic' it's acceptable to break any rule as long as there is no intent?

I think he's trying to say, "I can't stand Djokovic."

Not at all. I'm not a fan of his but I can 'stand' him. I just get the feeling watching Nadal that he isn't trying to take too long, he just takes a long time naturally, whereas I think Djokovic artificially puts it on for big points: there's no need to bounce the ball 30 times.

I ain't buyin'. Nadal controls the tempo of every point. Hard to get into a rythmn when it's constantly broken up. Many players complain--he drove Agassi nuts. And he certainly takes longer on some points than others.

Jesus, 30 times  ..-)  Guy hits 30 once, and y'all lose your freakin' minds. Anyway, he's much better with the ball bouncing than he used to be.
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Offline huntingyou

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2008, 03:52:57 PM »
Novak is working on it......Nadal will never change, he is an animal of habits and many players and fans dislike it and righfully so!

Nadal control the tempo of his service games...which is the way it should be!

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2008, 04:01:08 PM »
Novak is working on it......Nadal will never change, he is an animal of habits and many players and fans dislike it and righfully so!

Nadal control the tempo of his service games...which is the way it should be!
You meant within the rules of course! ;-()
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Offline dmastous

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2008, 04:12:57 PM »
Novak is working on it......Nadal will never change, he is an animal of habits and many players and fans dislike it and righfully so!

Nadal control the tempo of his service games...which is the way it should be!
You meant within the rules of course! ;-()

Nadal controls the tempo of everything from coming out of the locker room to going back in after the match. He is the ultimate immovable object on a tennis court.

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Offline huntingyou

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2008, 04:30:17 PM »
Novak is working on it......Nadal will never change, he is an animal of habits and many players and fans dislike it and righfully so!

Nadal control the tempo of his service games...which is the way it should be!
You meant within the rules of course! ;-()

Of course; on first serve...Nadal breaks the rules almost all the time despite the score being 5-0 40-0 in his favor so there is no doubt he is trap in his habits. On second serve..he average around 17 seconds which is normal for all players.

I believe you can take points away from him....and he will still take over 24 seconds in his first serve on average........I don't think he pick his butt for style but because he can't do anything about it.

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2008, 04:48:49 PM »
Novak is working on it......Nadal will never change, he is an animal of habits and many players and fans dislike it and righfully so!

Nadal control the tempo of his service games...which is the way it should be!
You meant within the rules of course! ;-()

Of course; on first serve...Nadal breaks the rules almost all the time despite the score being 5-0 40-0 in his favor so there is no doubt he is trap in his habits. On second serve..he average around 17 seconds which is normal for all players.

I believe you can take points away from him....and he will still take over 24 seconds in his first serve on average........I don't think he pick his butt for style but because he can't do anything about it.
It's the Spanish way of juicing the ball.  It's a combination of a spitball and a slider.  It's called The BullShot (named after it's originator of course).
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2008, 04:49:50 PM »
That's also how he gets a little extra 'stank' on his shots!
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Offline huntingyou

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2008, 04:56:56 PM »
That's also how he gets a little extra 'stank' on his shots!

 :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:


Online Babblelot

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2008, 08:18:24 PM »
I don't begrudge either Nadal or Djokovic. I'm just sayin' it's totally retarded to defend one and chastise the other. There's more to that story...
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2008, 11:07:33 AM »
I don't begrudge either Nadal or Djokovic. I'm just sayin' it's totally retarded to defend one and chastise the other. There's more to that story...
What other rules would you like to do away with while you're at it? :mad1: :)~ ;-()
CONK da ball!!!

Online Babblelot

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2008, 11:21:32 AM »
I don't begrudge either Nadal or Djokovic. I'm just sayin' it's totally retarded to defend one and chastise the other. There's more to that story...
What other rules would you like to do away with while you're at it? :mad1: :)~ ;-()

The ones no one enforces.
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2008, 11:54:30 AM »
I don't begrudge either Nadal or Djokovic. I'm just sayin' it's totally retarded to defend one and chastise the other. There's more to that story...
What other rules would you like to do away with while you're at it? :mad1: :)~ ;-()

The ones no one enforces.
Don't you mean enforces consistently?
I saw both Rafa and Nole warned several times this past year and both players corrected their behavoir immediately.  wtf.
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Online Babblelot

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2008, 12:01:29 PM »
I don't begrudge either Nadal or Djokovic. I'm just sayin' it's totally retarded to defend one and chastise the other. There's more to that story...
What other rules would you like to do away with while you're at it? :mad1: :)~ ;-()

The ones no one enforces.
Don't you mean enforces consistently?
I saw both Rafa and Nole warned several times this past year and both players corrected their behavoir immediately.  wtf.

Your question asked, "other" rules. So my answer to that question severed to make a point as well. You ran back to Rafa and Nole; ask yourself "WTF?"
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Online Babblelot

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2008, 12:05:16 PM »
Did you really see Nole warned several times? NO. Rafa is warned quite often, but I've never seen him lose a point. A warning with no peanalty does not constitute enforcement of a rule.


Why do I find myself constantly explain everything to you people....?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 12:06:37 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2008, 12:10:25 PM »
I don't begrudge either Nadal or Djokovic. I'm just sayin' it's totally retarded to defend one and chastise the other. There's more to that story...
What other rules would you like to do away with while you're at it? :mad1: :)~ ;-()

The ones no one enforces.
Don't you mean enforces consistently?
I saw both Rafa and Nole warned several times this past year and both players corrected their behavoir immediately.  wtf.

Your question asked, "other" rules. So my answer to that question severed to make a point as well. You ran back to Rafa and Nole; ask yourself "WTF?"
Silly boy!
You should know by now I'm too fat to run.
Don't go acting all tough now that you broke up a fight between some grade-schoolers! :rofl_2:

Your saying 'no one enforces' is incorrect.
Your 'point' was nullified by the fact that the stall rule is enforced, though inconsistently.
How do you expect to progress to the next step of the 'discussion' if you can't even deal with the first? :)~
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Offline dmastous

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2008, 02:52:04 PM »
I don't begrudge either Nadal or Djokovic. I'm just sayin' it's totally retarded to defend one and chastise the other. There's more to that story...
What other rules would you like to do away with while you're at it? :mad1: :)~ ;-()

The ones no one enforces.
Don't you mean enforces consistently?
I saw both Rafa and Nole warned several times this past year and both players corrected their behavoir immediately.  wtf.

Saw them warned, didn't see them change a thing. They still kept on with their habits.

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Offline dmastous

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2008, 02:54:13 PM »
Did you really see Nole warned several times? NO. Rafa is warned quite often, but I've never seen him lose a point. A warning with no peanalty does not constitute enforcement of a rule.


Why do I find myself constantly explain everything to you people....?

Nadal is warned more because he is more consistant with the way he goes about his game. He makes his oppenent wait all the time, while Djokovic just makes them wait on the crucial points where he is serving.

Is a tree as a rocking horse
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I worry about these things .

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Offline dmastous

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2008, 02:58:41 PM »
Oh, and as for no one enforcing the rules, it's probably because nobody has the cojones to actually default a top player for such a trivial thing as breaking the rules. They will warn them, but they never seem to take the next step and award a point to the opponent for continued stalling.
So, even though they are taking that first step (with a warning here and there), they haven't shown they have the strength to take it to it's ultimate conclusion, defaulting a top player for taking too much time between points.


Is a tree as a rocking horse
An ambition fulfilled
And is the sawdust jealous?
I worry about these things .

Kevin Godley & Lol Crème (I Pity Inanimate Objects)

Online Babblelot

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Re: Emotions, Games and Winning
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2008, 04:10:49 PM »
Oh, and as for no one enforcing the rules, it's probably because nobody has the cojones to actually default a top player for such a trivial thing as breaking the rules. They will warn them, but they never seem to take the next step and award a point to the opponent for continued stalling.
So, even though they are taking that first step (with a warning here and there), they haven't shown they have the strength to take it to it's ultimate conclusion, defaulting a top player for taking too much time between points.



Exactly, and by my definition, that's not enforcing the rule at all.
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