Topic: 2009 OFFICIAL FRENCH OPEN THREAD - ATP

[The Comeback Kid]

PLAYERS PAST AND PRESENT WITH THEIR OPINION ON THE GOAT SUBJECT:


"Someday we will say Federer's the best of all time" Pat Cash

"If he continues to play tennis like this, he will definitely break Pete's record. Federer can be the best ever; he has the potential. The only question is whether he has the desire." Richard Krajicek

“By far the greatest in the history of the men’s game” – John McEnroe

“He is the best player in the world…the complete tennis player” – Rod Laver

“On his day, he is the best that has picked up a racket” – Jim Courier

“Roger Federer is one of the best players of all time, there is no doubt about that…he’s an artist out there…he seems to be a throw back to the days of Laver and Rosewall…it’s a treat to see him” Bud Collins

“In my opinion he’s one of the best of the history of the game…he’s going to be the best” – Rafa Nadal

“It’s difficult to say who is the greatest tennis player in history. The people who are usually mentioned are Roger, myself and Rod Laver, and I think it’s probably one of us three” Pete Sampras

"Pete (Sampras) was great, no question…But there was a place to get to with Pete. It could be on your terms…There's no such place with Roger. I think he's the best I've played against." Andre Agassi

"...the best player ever to play the game," Andy Murray

“Federer was the best player I played against and I played Pete Sampras seven times. I played Federer 13 times and his game is so complete, there are no holes in his game that make you feel you can attack.” Tim Henman

“After this, I would say he's going to win more Grand Slams, many more, if he continues to play with the kind of passion he has now. It was an unbelievable performance against Murray and I'm now 100% convinced he will break Pete Sampras's record." Matts Wilander

"For me, watching Roger Federer is like watching an artist, because Roger can do anything on a court... Roger wants to be the player who wins the most Grand Slams, and I believe he will. If he stays motivated - and away from injuries - he's going to be the greatest player who ever lived." Bjorn Borg

“Roger continues to set new standards not just for tennis supremacy, but for all sports. He is not only one of the greatest tennis players of all-time, but one of the greatest athletes in the history of sports,” Etienne de Villiers (ATP)

"He plays offense unbelievably well. He plays defense better than anyone I've ever played. He makes so many 'gets,' and when he gets to it, he doesn't just put it back; he puts it where it's difficult for you to hit the next shot. Volleys well. Serves well. Handles the pressure of being number one in the world. He's handled the pressure of being against a crowd...He obviously puts pressure on himself to succeed, and has handled all that. Got the biggest forehand in the game. Seems to be able to create pace out of nothing. I could keep going." JAMES BLAKE

"He's probably the best I've faced. He's the most complete tennis player in the history of tennis, that's for sure, with all due respect to (Andre) Agassi and (Pete) Sampras and the rest of the gang." Safin in 2009

"The best in the history of the game" Solderling

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The rest is up to us, we can have our own opinion on the matter. Its all pointless anyway, I've always believed in a top 5 or top 10 as picking just one player out of so many excellent players over so many decades is like picking one greatest film or song of all time when there are so many to choose from. 

[Predator]

PLAYERS PAST AND PRESENT WITH THEIR OPINION ON THE GOAT SUBJECT:


"Someday we will say Federer's the best of all time" Pat Cash

"If he continues to play tennis like this, he will definitely break Pete's record. Federer can be the best ever; he has the potential. The only question is whether he has the desire." Richard Krajicek

“By far the greatest in the history of the men’s game” – John McEnroe

“He is the best player in the world…the complete tennis player” – Rod Laver

“On his day, he is the best that has picked up a racket” – Jim Courier

“Roger Federer is one of the best players of all time, there is no doubt about that…he’s an artist out there…he seems to be a throw back to the days of Laver and Rosewall…it’s a treat to see him” Bud Collins

“In my opinion he’s one of the best of the history of the game…he’s going to be the best” – Rafa Nadal

“It’s difficult to say who is the greatest tennis player in history. The people who are usually mentioned are Roger, myself and Rod Laver, and I think it’s probably one of us three” Pete Sampras

"Pete (Sampras) was great, no question…But there was a place to get to with Pete. It could be on your terms…There's no such place with Roger. I think he's the best I've played against." Andre Agassi

"...the best player ever to play the game," Andy Murray

“Federer was the best player I played against and I played Pete Sampras seven times. I played Federer 13 times and his game is so complete, there are no holes in his game that make you feel you can attack.” Tim Henman

“After this, I would say he's going to win more Grand Slams, many more, if he continues to play with the kind of passion he has now. It was an unbelievable performance against Murray and I'm now 100% convinced he will break Pete Sampras's record." Matts Wilander

"For me, watching Roger Federer is like watching an artist, because Roger can do anything on a court... Roger wants to be the player who wins the most Grand Slams, and I believe he will. If he stays motivated - and away from injuries - he's going to be the greatest player who ever lived." Bjorn Borg

“Roger continues to set new standards not just for tennis supremacy, but for all sports. He is not only one of the greatest tennis players of all-time, but one of the greatest athletes in the history of sports,” Etienne de Villiers (ATP)

"He plays offense unbelievably well. He plays defense better than anyone I've ever played. He makes so many 'gets,' and when he gets to it, he doesn't just put it back; he puts it where it's difficult for you to hit the next shot. Volleys well. Serves well. Handles the pressure of being number one in the world. He's handled the pressure of being against a crowd...He obviously puts pressure on himself to succeed, and has handled all that. Got the biggest forehand in the game. Seems to be able to create pace out of nothing. I could keep going." JAMES BLAKE

"He's probably the best I've faced. He's the most complete tennis player in the history of tennis, that's for sure, with all due respect to (Andre) Agassi and (Pete) Sampras and the rest of the gang." Safin in 2009

"The best in the history of the game" Solderling

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The rest is up to us, we can have our own opinion on the matter. Its all pointless anyway, I've always believed in a top 5 or top 10 as picking just one player out of so many excellent players over so many decades is like picking one greatest film or song of all time when there are so many to choose from. 

"A player who cannot dominate or defeat everyone everywhere can never be the best ever", Predator in 2009. 

Seriously, what do all those statements prove? They will be digging a hole for themselves if they do not praise Federer particularly at this moment that he has won the French Open after all his defeats to Nadal until last year. The world is such. I witnessed even bigger praises when Sampras surpassed Emerson. The same happened when Borg was dominating the circuit. Even lendl, John McEnroe. It's all common. If Sampras or Laver say some X or Y is the best. Oh well, that is their opinion and no Thank You. I can judge who deserves what.

[Lugburz]

Here you go Comeback Kid,you can add this to your list :

Q. In that vein, you've had the good fortune in your wonderful career to face many fantastic players. Who do you think the greatest of all time is?

TOMMY HAAS: That's a tough question to answer,really. If you go ‑‑ you can go look at it right now, who has the most Slam titles. Pete's still up there. Roger would have to win a few more to pass him. I think if he does, then in my eyes he deserves rightfully to be considered the greatest ever.

Q. And if he wins here?

TOMMY HAAS: Yeah, I know, I have to think about it more. But if he wins here, you know,he's probably the greatest ever.

[Predator]

My genuine feeling after watching what Soderling did to Nadal: If Sampras had Nadal and he faced him 4 times at the French Open,  he would lose to Nadal in a humiliating manner twice or thrice, Yes he would, and the thrid or fourth time, (no offense to Nadal) he would kick the hell out of Rafa. He was an ON and OFF kind of a player. I pity these innocent fans who are bluffed this way believing Nadal is the greatest ever and hence if Federer cannot beat Nadal, no one else can do it. How is such ridiculous conclusion feasible? What did Soderling do then, if not beating Nadal at French open? What they fail to understand is, Federer always failed to execute the game to beat Nadal at the French open despite several chances. Soderling executed destructive offense, even if it was a fluke I don't care, and dismissed Nadal. Sampras was a master at offensive tennis and don't tell me he would face the same fate against Nadal as the defensive player Federer. Even Kuerten would have a great chance of beating Nadal once with his aggressive backhand and height. Need I go on and elucidate on Borg's, Laver's, Lendl's chances of beating Nadal at French?  So, stop that nonsense of greatest ever on Clay stopping Federer on previous occasions and everyone else would face the same fate. On the flip side of all this, You go on to belittle Nadal's head to head against Federer? I mean if Nadal has beaten everyone on Clay and surpassed Federer at his prime, credit to him. You cannot have it both ways. Don't cry and whine saying he is the best ever on Clay and so defeats against him are a given. How does he become best ever? Federer and the rest of them could not prevent him. He maybe or may not be the greatest, time will tell. But bear in mind that there are many great Clay courters than Federer in the history of the game.

[Predator]

The only way for Federer to be a worthy GOAT candidate of any degree would be to:

-Win atleast 2 Calender Slams
-Wins slams over a 12 year span/13 year stretch so win atleast 1 slam in 2015
-Gain a winning head to head with his main rival Nadal in slams, so gain atleast 5 more wins vs Rafa in slams than Nadal can on him
-Beats Nadal in a French Open final atleast once
-End the year ranked #1 atleast 3 more times
-Gains a winning head to head with Murray, not even strictly the slams is good enough in this case but overall

If he achieves this it would put him in the conversation with Laver, Sampras, Rosewall, Gonzales, and Borg.  Right now he is in the second tier with people like Tilden, Budge, Kramer, and Perry; just above the 3rd tier of Lendl, Connors, McEnroe, Cochet, LaCoste.

That's hilarious...

You are hilarious if you are the Administrator here? Federer fans are crazier than I actually thought. Kittens25 has put forth a genuine task for Federer if he wants to become the indisputable GOAT and I totally agree with him even if he seems slightly outrageous. You guys are funny. What for is Federer the GOAT now? For defeating the mentally strongest players in the history in the form of Haas, Acasuso, Monfils, Delpotro, Soderling to win the coveted French Open? For defeating the legends in the game like Roddick, Hewitt in multiple slam finals and semifinals? For defeating multiple slam wonders and certain all time greats like Gonzalez, Baghdatis and Soderling in slam finals? For dominating the main opponent Nadal 13-7 in head to head and crushing him in 3 French finals and one Semi? For beating his main rival Nadal on all surfaces in slams? For dominating the up and coming Andy Murray 7-2?  For majestically restricting Nadal from expanding his territory to other surfaces? For making Nadal cry like a 5 year old kid in front of the Australian crowd?

For what?

So let's see if I understand you here. Administrators are not allowed to have an opinion? Or at least not an opinion that's contrary to yours? He is hilarious because he's the admin here, and has that opinion?
I'm not going to make the case for Federer being the greatest because I don't think he is, nor do I think he ever will be. Nor will Nadal, nor is Laver. There is simply no way to compare Federer with Laver or Budge, or any other past champion, and we have no idea who will rise up in 10 or 20 years. The game has changed too much since then, and will continue to evolve. To say that one player is the greatest of all time is ludicrous on it's face. But to call out T4Y because he's the admin and he expresses his opinion is also ludicrous.

It just sounded funny he was backing Federer all the time like a normal poster. Okay I take that comment back. I like Your point as well. That is much better than arriving at disastrous conclusions like Federer is greater than Lendl, Borg, Laver on Clay because Federer could not beat Nadal the greatest ever(now how this?) and if he cannot, no one else could. 

[Yiyo]

My genuine feeling after watching what Soderling did to Nadal: If Sampras had Nadal and he faced him 4 times at the French Open,  he would lose to Nadal in a humiliating manner twice or thrice, Yes he would, and the thrid or fourth time, (no offense to Nadal) he would kick the hell out of Rafa. He was an ON and OFF kind of a player. I pity these innocent fans who are bluffed this way believing Nadal is the greatest ever and hence if Federer cannot beat Nadal, no one else can do it. How is such ridiculous conclusion feasible? What did Soderling do then, if not beating Nadal at French open? What they fail to understand is, Federer always failed to execute the game to beat Nadal at the French open despite several chances. Soderling executed destructive offense, even if it was a fluke I don't care, and dismissed Nadal. Sampras was a master at offensive tennis and don't tell me he would face the same fate against Nadal as the defensive player Federer. Even Kuerten would have a great chance of beating Nadal once with his aggressive backhand and height. Need I go on and elucidate on Borg's, Laver's, Lendl's chances of beating Nadal at French?  So, stop that nonsense of greatest ever on Clay stopping Federer on previous occasions and everyone else would face the same fate. On the flip side of all this, You go on to belittle Nadal's head to head against Federer? I mean if Nadal has beaten everyone on Clay and surpassed Federer at his prime, credit to him. You cannot have it both ways. Don't cry and whine saying he is the best ever on Clay and so defeats against him are a given. How does he become best ever? Federer and the rest of them could not prevent him. He maybe or may not be the greatest, time will tell. But bear in mind that there are many great Clay courters than Federer in the history of the game.

I agree with you about Sampras, he would find a way to beat a player that has beaten him 4 times in the same event, but no one said that Nadal is the greatest ever...maybe the greatest ever on clay, but with Borg around I wouldnt say that too. Let's wait until Nadal retires and then we will judge. Söderling played fantastic tennis, credit to him, but Nadal is clearly off form, compare him to the 2008 in form Nadal that won 5 tournaments in a row

[Predator]

To me, Federer's French Open victory raises a lot more questions about his career achievements than the answers it provides. Truth is, Federer's entire career has been based on such wins. He might have the quantity when it comes to winning Slams, but quality wise, his achievements are not all that great in my very honest opinion. Federer's 14 does not make him the GOAT. If he is the GOAT, then considering his arch rival Nadal, he is 23 and just on the fact that all of his Slam victories came at the expense of great(GOAT?) Federer, something you cannot say about Federer's slams. Now doesn't that automatically make Nadal even better than Federer for dominating Federer and other players? That is the very reason why the whole concept of GOAT keeps revolving around 'Domination' in my very honest view. My GOAT is Rod Laver. Behind him Sampras and then Borg. Sampras' position may be questioned but everyone had a flaw on one surface or the other. Then it all boils down to domination, in my view. Quality over Quantity. Federer and Nadal are still in the hunt for the GOAT place but one can only decide once they are done with their Careers. But now, both Federer and Nadal are not even close to being called GOAT. Let the game continue. Thank You.     

[Predator]

My genuine feeling after watching what Soderling did to Nadal: If Sampras had Nadal and he faced him 4 times at the French Open,  he would lose to Nadal in a humiliating manner twice or thrice, Yes he would, and the thrid or fourth time, (no offense to Nadal) he would kick the hell out of Rafa. He was an ON and OFF kind of a player. I pity these innocent fans who are bluffed this way believing Nadal is the greatest ever and hence if Federer cannot beat Nadal, no one else can do it. How is such ridiculous conclusion feasible? What did Soderling do then, if not beating Nadal at French open? What they fail to understand is, Federer always failed to execute the game to beat Nadal at the French open despite several chances. Soderling executed destructive offense, even if it was a fluke I don't care, and dismissed Nadal. Sampras was a master at offensive tennis and don't tell me he would face the same fate against Nadal as the defensive player Federer. Even Kuerten would have a great chance of beating Nadal once with his aggressive backhand and height. Need I go on and elucidate on Borg's, Laver's, Lendl's chances of beating Nadal at French?  So, stop that nonsense of greatest ever on Clay stopping Federer on previous occasions and everyone else would face the same fate. On the flip side of all this, You go on to belittle Nadal's head to head against Federer? I mean if Nadal has beaten everyone on Clay and surpassed Federer at his prime, credit to him. You cannot have it both ways. Don't cry and whine saying he is the best ever on Clay and so defeats against him are a given. How does he become best ever? Federer and the rest of them could not prevent him. He maybe or may not be the greatest, time will tell. But bear in mind that there are many great Clay courters than Federer in the history of the game.

I agree with you about Sampras, he would find a way to beat a player that has beaten him 4 times in the same event, but no one said that Nadal is the greatest ever...maybe the greatest ever on clay, but with Borg around I wouldnt say that too. Let's wait until Nadal retires and then we will judge. Söderling played fantastic tennis, credit to him, but Nadal is clearly off form, compare him to the 2008 in form Nadal that won 5 tournaments in a row

Concurred. We will only know when Nadal is done with it. Even if he is the greatest ever, what gets me talking is, they believe that there is no one between Nadal and Federer on Clay, just to elevate Federer's only French Open. How can one ignore legends on Clay like Laver, Lendl, Borg, Kuerten and say they would face the same fate of Federer? Am not I right?

[Somil]

Here is the real, undisputed GOAT.

[Monky]

Here is the real, undisputed GOAT.

looks too big to be a goat. I also don't think he is white enough, nor do I think his horns are pointy enough. I'm sorry but there are countless mistakes to this creature being called the 'undisputed' goat.

[TennisVeritas]

To me, Federer's French Open victory raises a lot more questions about his career achievements than the answers it provides. Truth is, Federer's entire career has been based on such wins. He might have the quantity when it comes to winning Slams, but quality wise, his achievements are not all that great in my very honest opinion. Federer's 14 does not make him the GOAT. If he is the GOAT, then considering his arch rival Nadal, he is 23 and just on the fact that all of his Slam victories came at the expense of great(GOAT?) Federer, something you cannot say about Federer's slams. Now doesn't that automatically make Nadal even better than Federer for dominating Federer and other players? That is the very reason why the whole concept of GOAT keeps revolving around 'Domination' in my very honest view. My GOAT is Rod Laver. Behind him Sampras and then Borg. Sampras' position may be questioned but everyone had a flaw on one surface or the other. Then it all boils down to domination, in my view. Quality over Quantity. Federer and Nadal are still in the hunt for the GOAT place but one can only decide once they are done with their Careers. But now, both Federer and Nadal are not even close to being called GOAT. Let the game continue. Thank You.      

I really do not see your logic..Borg and Pete in front of FED..Why?

At 27 FED was able to reach the same umber of Slams final than Lendl (i.e. the record)..He was able to establish some unbelievable records, IMO Two of them are great: The high bar he puts in terms of consecutive number of weeks as number one is just amazing so it is his domination on slams..20 consecutive semi on slams.. ..On that side: Call me when you will find another with such a degree of consistency...

Said all that I do not believe that there is a GOAT ..There are great champions that can be considered as being more or less at the same level of greatnessIMO: Pete, FED and Borg are the main names in (a pure) open era..Laver is clearly there as well..

But still he was not a fully open era material..Anyway..

As such I will be even more modest and propose the following (always looking at the open era bit IMO):

1960's - Laver (Rosewall an honourable mention)
1970's - Borg (Connors an honourable mention)
1980's - Lendl (McEnroe an honourable mention)
1990's - Sampras
2000's - Federer (Nadal an honourable mention)

All these amazing (all time) great players..Might with a time machine someone would be able to tell us who was the best..till then..Nothing more than opinions..stats and numbers..

[wissywig]

Here is the real, undisputed GOAT.

looks too big to be a goat. I also don't think he is white enough, nor do I think his horns are pointy enough. I'm sorry but there are countless mistakes to this creature being called the 'undisputed' goat.

 

Perfect.  You win the internet. 

[awk]

The only way for Federer to be a worthy GOAT candidate of any degree would be to:

-Win atleast 2 Calender Slams
-Wins slams over a 12 year span/13 year stretch so win atleast 1 slam in 2015
-Gain a winning head to head with his main rival Nadal in slams, so gain atleast 5 more wins vs Rafa in slams than Nadal can on him
-Beats Nadal in a French Open final atleast once
-End the year ranked #1 atleast 3 more times
-Gains a winning head to head with Murray, not even strictly the slams is good enough in this case but overall

If he achieves this it would put him in the conversation with Laver, Sampras, Rosewall, Gonzales, and Borg.  Right now he is in the second tier with people like Tilden, Budge, Kramer, and Perry; just above the 3rd tier of Lendl, Connors, McEnroe, Cochet, LaCoste.

You keep telling yourself that  Honestly, that's the funniest thing I've seen today
[/quote


I would like to ADD a couple more to the list for Fed to claim the GOAT status !

1. Cure Cancer (to be specific all kinds)
2. Bring World Peace
3. Get Dick Cheney to admit he is not human (okay, okay - this one might be TOO hard)

[wissywig]

The only way for Federer to be a worthy GOAT candidate of any degree would be to:

-Win atleast 2 Calender Slams
-Wins slams over a 12 year span/13 year stretch so win atleast 1 slam in 2015
-Gain a winning head to head with his main rival Nadal in slams, so gain atleast 5 more wins vs Rafa in slams than Nadal can on him
-Beats Nadal in a French Open final atleast once
-End the year ranked #1 atleast 3 more times
-Gains a winning head to head with Murray, not even strictly the slams is good enough in this case but overall

If he achieves this it would put him in the conversation with Laver, Sampras, Rosewall, Gonzales, and Borg.  Right now he is in the second tier with people like Tilden, Budge, Kramer, and Perry; just above the 3rd tier of Lendl, Connors, McEnroe, Cochet, LaCoste.

You keep telling yourself that  Honestly, that's the funniest thing I've seen today

I would like to ADD a couple more to the list for Fed to claim the GOAT status !

1. Cure Cancer (to be specific all kinds)
2. Bring World Peace
3. Get Dick Cheney to admit he is not human (okay, okay - this one might be TOO hard)[/b][/i]

You forgot one:
4. Teach GW Bush the English language.

Man, talk about impossible expectations.

[Monky]

Here is the real, undisputed GOAT.

looks too big to be a goat. I also don't think he is white enough, nor do I think his horns are pointy enough. I'm sorry but there are countless mistakes to this creature being called the 'undisputed' goat.

 

Perfect.  You win the internet.  

holy goodness, that's a HUGE prize. I'll share with everyone though

[Monky]

wow this thread has gone crazy, at least there's no sarcasm in here

[The Comeback Kid]

If one looks only at the records / achievements of players, Federer is up there with the best but definitely not the single best. Each candidate has a gap in the resume, with Federer it's the Nadal factor. ( Sampras the RG factor, Borg the USO factor, and so on for the others..)

I think a lot of these people are inclined to call Federer the GOAT because of reasons other than just records. He has a playing style that is a joy to watch, he moves as well as anyone in history, his fitness is as great as anyone in history, he has all the shots in the textbook , he is hugely popular all over the world ( most popular champion in history? ) , has won Edberg sportsmanship award for 6 straight years, and has shown a consistency at the 4 slams that has never been seen before.

When one adds all these other reasons on top of his on-court achievements, it makes a very strong case for him. I dont care one way or the other though. I just know I enjoy watching him play. He makes it look effortless.

[Dallas]

Why does it matter?  The GOAT is subjective and everyone have their opinions.  No one's opinion is higher than the other!  So what if kittens say Roger is not his 'goat?  Big deal!  What if John Mac say Roger is GOAT?  Big deal?  It's whoever YOU think is the Greatest of all time!  So instead of trying to 'change' other's opinion - just state who YOU think is the GOAT and why...and move on! Gee!

[wissywig]

Regarding this:

I think a lot of these people are inclined to call Federer the GOAT because of reasons other than just records.... he is hugely popular all over the world ( most popular champion in history? )....

Interesting point.  Federer probably is the most popular champion in history, but perhaps only because he is a product of his time.  The internet plays a HUGE part in creating and maintaining celebrity status.  When I was a kid growing up watching the likes of Navratilova and Evert and JMac and Connors, I couldn't log onto a site such as T4U, or watch highlights of their matches, or learn everything there is to know about the players.  It's much easier to achieve notoriety than it has been for previous tennis stars.  Federer is no doubt popular, but there's no telling how much more so a guy like Laver would have been with the technology we have now.

[wissywig]

Why does it matter?  The GOAT is subjective and everyone have their opinions.  No one's opinion is higher than the other!  So what if kittens say Roger is not his 'goat?  Big deal!  What if John Mac say Roger is GOAT?  Big deal?  It's whoever YOU think is the Greatest of all time!  So instead of trying to 'change' other's opinion - just state who YOU think is the GOAT and why...and move on! Gee!

Oh c'mon, now, where is the fun in that?