Author Topic: What have we gotten ourselves into?  (Read 5810 times)

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Online Babblelot

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #60 on: February 17, 2010, 07:49:15 AM »
Go get your dinner. Mommy's calling. Bed time is in a half hour. Make sure you brush your teeth.

It's laughable that you think you're the mature one here.  :whistle:

re: maturity; cognitively, you have a long ways to go FFF. I hate arguing with teens and the retarded, so I just tell you to go take a "time-out".
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Online FedFanForever

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2010, 11:54:58 AM »
So in summary, Scott, your daughter is acting up because of the lack of a single payer health care system. 

That and that he should spank his children with Adam Smith's invisible hand.

Continue to mock that which you do not understand.
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Online Babblelot

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2010, 03:07:49 PM »
So in summary, Scott, your daughter is acting up because of the lack of a single payer health care system. 

That and that he should spank his children with Adam Smith's invisible hand.

Continue to mock that which you do not understand.

The inability to perceive humor where humor can be found is the biggest tell of one's impairment. This is fun. I can pick this low hanging fruit all day.
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Online FedFanForever

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #63 on: February 17, 2010, 03:51:11 PM »
The inability to perceive humor where humor can be found is the biggest tell of one's impairment. This is fun. I can pick this low hanging fruit all day.

The fact that you seemingly exist to bash Federer fans is a first sign of immaturity.
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Online Babblelot

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #64 on: February 17, 2010, 05:12:12 PM »
The inability to perceive humor where humor can be found is the biggest tell of one's impairment. This is fun. I can pick this low hanging fruit all day.

The fact that you seemingly exist to bash Federer fans is a first sign of immaturity.

Why can't you just put it down and walk away? Is that you showing everyone your maturity?
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Online FedFanForever

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #65 on: February 17, 2010, 05:31:49 PM »
The inability to perceive humor where humor can be found is the biggest tell of one's impairment. This is fun. I can pick this low hanging fruit all day.

The fact that you seemingly exist to bash Federer fans is a first sign of immaturity.

Why can't you just put it down and walk away? Is that you showing everyone your maturity?

The fact is I replied to the thread about the subject and you had to respond to my reply with your childish nonsense. You could have left it alone.
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Online Babblelot

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #66 on: February 17, 2010, 06:43:44 PM »
The inability to perceive humor where humor can be found is the biggest tell of one's impairment. This is fun. I can pick this low hanging fruit all day.

The fact that you seemingly exist to bash Federer fans is a first sign of immaturity.

Why can't you just put it down and walk away? Is that you showing everyone your maturity?

The fact is I replied to the thread about the subject and you had to respond to my reply with your childish nonsense. You could have left it alone.

So that just makes you another of my scorned little b**ches.
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Online monstertruck

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #67 on: February 28, 2010, 10:10:14 PM »
Only if you're born into the top 10%? That's news to me, as I'm from immigrant parents who came with about $200 in their pockets and eventually worked their way up to upper middle class. Stop lying. America IS the land of opportunity for those hard-working and not b**ching about everything all the time.  :)>>>>

Lol, try living in Europe. One story of working class to middle class doesn't make a country socially mobile. America is lagging behind the rest of the world in healthcare and education, because access to the best of it is limited to the rich. And without healthcare and education, life is going to be pretty tough. I have nothing but respect for people who've worked their way up the ladder in the US, because it is extraordinarily difficult over there to do so. Try living in a country where the quality of education and healthcare you receive as a child is almost irrespective of your parents wealth, then go back to the US and proclaim it the land of oppurtunity.

kick, I just got back from another march for health care--my 5th in 12 months. A lot of "health" insurance companies have a big presence in Chicago, so we are the epicenter of the grassroots movement.

Let me lay down some knowledge on you. Try not to piss yourself laughing.

Harvard Medical School
*uninsured have a 40% higher risk of death than the insured
-Keep in mind, the Three Stooges here (Dmast, swish, and monstertruck) will have you believe that only deadbeats and derelicts go without health care, probably their own fault, too. But often, their only crime is that they lost their job and had a health condition at the time, known as the pre-existing condition, which precludes them from obtaining health care after having lost their job since health care in the US is employer based. (See how the conservatives keep Americans scared s**tless.) These are the conservative knuckleheads who will be quick to agree that the system is broken, and something must be done, but when they are in control of the congress and presidency, their intentions are clear: F' it, we're making to much money!

Business Week
*Aetna's net income for 2008 was $1.38 billion and for 2009 $1.27 billion
-And that's after clearing all their expenses, including the $2.8 million a year they piss away lobbying congress, i.e., paying off congressmen and senators. This is just 1 company, and they're not even the most egregious. I only have their blotter because the march took place in front of their downtown offices. Can you imagine? Making money off selling health care!

*Aetna's CEO made $24.3 million in 2009 and has $194.5 million in options (United Health Group's CEO made $1.6 billion in options in 6 years!); the top 4 executives made $40.5 million

*In 2009, Aetna and the other top 5 insurance companies made $12.2 billion, a 56% increase over 2008

*Aetna announced they will eliminate 350,000 members from national accounts and 300,000 from smaller group accounts
-That means, while raking in billions, 650,000 more Americans will be without health care in 2010.


Anyway, it's great to see someone else take an interest in the US Health Care saga, even if you live in the UK. :H
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Offline kingskid

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2010, 05:22:45 AM »
May I interrupt?  :whistle:

Getting back to the original topic of our children and the direction we chose in disciplining them.  I wanted to just lay it out there that I did research different discipline methods and utilized them, to no avail.  I grew up being slapped in the face and spanked with a belt but usually only when my mom had had enough of yelling at us and then felt she had no choice but to lash out.  So I feared doing that more than anything...hurting my child/ren out of rage.  So I tried every non-aggressive tactic I read or heard about including: time-outs, redirecting, positive reinforcements, charts, bear hugs/helping them do the correct behavior, etc.  What it came down to was the fact that our children were ruling and we were not being consistent, both of which were making life miserable in our home.  We knew there need to be consistency of discipline and avoidance of shaming and outbursts (on mommy's part due to being fed up with disobedience and disrespect.)

So out of sheer disappointment with the secular books and even a Christian mom website I followed and fully aware that if we didn't get control of the atmosphere of our home I, for one, was going to lose it and really hurt my kids, I turned to a trusted friend/pastor who had successfully raised three boys.  Not to mention the fact that our son was one of those children who would run or dart away absentmindedly and NEEDED discipline in that area for fear of getting hurt. He sent me an extensive e-mail that included a list of Scriptures (not just the ol' spare the rod spoil the child crutch) that supported disciplining a child with a swat to the toosh.  He set it up by saying that spanking is reserved only for "blatant disrespect and/or disobedience," so it's not just casually used to get what you want out of the child.  And, of course, when kids are small and have ruled a home for awhile there is a lot of seemingly small but very significant battles of will and disobedience.  He also noted that spanking is never done in the heat of the moment, but after a period of calm (send the child to his room while you cool down and take a moment to reflect on what just happened) and then you calmly go to the child, explain what s/he did was disobedient/disrespectful and why, then discipline and reconnect with the child with hugs, soothing and prayer.  Scott and I were the first to laugh and give all the reasons why our kids would never voluntarily go up to their rooms and wait for punishment, let alone submit to a spanking.   But I'll be darned if they didn't AND it didn't take very long at all with being consistent in using time-outs and redirection for smaller offenses and swatting the toosh for major offenses before we saw great results.  We also still have two charts hanging in our kitchen that plainly list out what is good behavior and what is bad behavior (written words AND pics for Zman) so they know what is expected.  We adore our kids and spend LOTS of time with them each day...and now that we have the authority in the house and the kids know and respect that...our house is SO much happier.

It breaks our hearts every time we have to swat their tooshes, and honestly it is SO infrequent now that they respect our words.  But at the same time, you have to parent children out what you know is good for them and not out of what feels good for you.  I was 100% parenting out of my fear of becoming my mother (who was 180 degrees different than I am, was single and overworked/overstressed) and that's not a healthy motivation.  Children have different temperaments as well, so not every child needs to be spanked.  AND there is something to be said for experience.  It's not that single people or married w/o children couples cannot have opinions on what is right or wrong when dealing with children, but I know from my own experience that opinions can change once your knee deep in child-rearing.

Just my two cents worth there!  ;-()


Offline TheEternalCowboy

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2010, 08:05:52 AM »
May I interrupt?  :whistle:

Getting back to the original topic of our children and the direction we chose in disciplining them.  I wanted to just lay it out there that I did research different discipline methods and utilized them, to no avail.  I grew up being slapped in the face and spanked with a belt but usually only when my mom had had enough of yelling at us and then felt she had no choice but to lash out.  So I feared doing that more than anything...hurting my child/ren out of rage.  So I tried every non-aggressive tactic I read or heard about including: time-outs, redirecting, positive reinforcements, charts, bear hugs/helping them do the correct behavior, etc.  What it came down to was the fact that our children were ruling and we were not being consistent, both of which were making life miserable in our home.  We knew there need to be consistency of discipline and avoidance of shaming and outbursts (on mommy's part due to being fed up with disobedience and disrespect.)

So out of sheer disappointment with the secular books and even a Christian mom website I followed and fully aware that if we didn't get control of the atmosphere of our home I, for one, was going to lose it and really hurt my kids, I turned to a trusted friend/pastor who had successfully raised three boys.  Not to mention the fact that our son was one of those children who would run or dart away absentmindedly and NEEDED discipline in that area for fear of getting hurt. He sent me an extensive e-mail that included a list of Scriptures (not just the ol' spare the rod spoil the child crutch) that supported disciplining a child with a swat to the toosh.  He set it up by saying that spanking is reserved only for "blatant disrespect and/or disobedience," so it's not just casually used to get what you want out of the child.  And, of course, when kids are small and have ruled a home for awhile there is a lot of seemingly small but very significant battles of will and disobedience.  He also noted that spanking is never done in the heat of the moment, but after a period of calm (send the child to his room while you cool down and take a moment to reflect on what just happened) and then you calmly go to the child, explain what s/he did was disobedient/disrespectful and why, then discipline and reconnect with the child with hugs, soothing and prayer.  Scott and I were the first to laugh and give all the reasons why our kids would never voluntarily go up to their rooms and wait for punishment, let alone submit to a spanking.   But I'll be darned if they didn't AND it didn't take very long at all with being consistent in using time-outs and redirection for smaller offenses and swatting the toosh for major offenses before we saw great results.  We also still have two charts hanging in our kitchen that plainly list out what is good behavior and what is bad behavior (written words AND pics for Zman) so they know what is expected.  We adore our kids and spend LOTS of time with them each day...and now that we have the authority in the house and the kids know and respect that...our house is SO much happier.

It breaks our hearts every time we have to swat their tooshes, and honestly it is SO infrequent now that they respect our words.  But at the same time, you have to parent children out what you know is good for them and not out of what feels good for you.  I was 100% parenting out of my fear of becoming my mother (who was 180 degrees different than I am, was single and overworked/overstressed) and that's not a healthy motivation.  Children have different temperaments as well, so not every child needs to be spanked.  AND there is something to be said for experience.  It's not that single people or married w/o children couples cannot have opinions on what is right or wrong when dealing with children, but I know from my own experience that opinions can change once your knee deep in child-rearing.

Just my two cents worth there!  ;-()



Whoa, I just realized you're Mrs. Tennis4You.

Welcome to the board?  I had wondered at times if you this board, looks like the answer is yes.

Online FedFanForever

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2010, 10:35:03 AM »
Oh my what have we gotten into with this amateur President?
Then we will fight in the shade.

Offline britbox

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2010, 04:30:16 PM »

I think depressed wages is a byproduct of globalization and it won't get any better. It's coming full circle.


It is, and that's not incongruent with anything I've said. It's all the same. The profit motive will always chase the lowest wage, whether here or abroad. And the people be damned.  

There is a double edge it - because the people losing their jobs in the west may be damned but the recipients are obviously benefiting.  Market forces buddy.  It's a very gradual redistribution of power and wealth.  The western world will only decline economically - the game is up.

Market forces? As in free-markets? It has nothing to do with what the markets can do for themselves. To get to the state we're in, the "market forces" we're structurally determined. There's your free-market theory.

Which leads to the conservative dream of redistributing wealth from America's middle class to the poor of the ROW with the ultimate goal of establishing America as second world country, in which there is a wealthy ruling class and a poor working class. In other words, a plutocracy, not much different than Mexico. Maybe you're new to the program, but it has nothing to do with "market forces" and everything to do with concentrating wealth and power. Get it now?

The big problem here is that the conservatives have effectively convinced Americans to vote against their best interests for decades. When the knuckleheads here finally wake up and smell the coffee, I'll be right in the thick of it.  ;-()

No, it has everything to do with market forces.

OK, US Car Company employs 100,000 employees in USA.  French Car Company employs 100,000 employees in France.  French Car Company moves production to China, saves millions of pounds in overheads, cuts prices and boasts bigger profits with no workforce "issues".

French Car Company increases sales throughout the WORLD, boasts bigger profits at the expense of US Car Company.  US Car Company is now losing money with bloated, mollycoddled workforce on a 37 hour week with pension plans etc... whilst sales are plummeting through the floor....

What does US Car Company do....


All about market forces...  The far east IS the production centre of the world.  You're the CEO of the US Car Company - what do you do? Sink or swim?

What you are seeing Babblelot is a slow shift in power and there is absoutely nothing that can be done about it unless you resort to protectionist, isolationist policies like 50s USA.... and with your countries debt levels I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Online FedFanForever

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2010, 05:29:27 PM »
I dispute the notion that there is any real shift in power to China/India. How many aircraft carrier battle groups do they have deployed?
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Offline britbox

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2010, 05:43:41 PM »
I dispute the notion that there is any real shift in power to China/India. How many aircraft carrier battle groups do they have deployed?

It's not a game of RISK....

I said gradual shift in power and what difference will a few aircraft carriers make when the hordes at home get restless?

Economic power outweighs military power many times over btw.

Online Babblelot

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #74 on: March 03, 2010, 11:32:03 PM »

I think depressed wages is a byproduct of globalization and it won't get any better. It's coming full circle.


It is, and that's not incongruent with anything I've said. It's all the same. The profit motive will always chase the lowest wage, whether here or abroad. And the people be damned.  

There is a double edge it - because the people losing their jobs in the west may be damned but the recipients are obviously benefiting.  Market forces buddy.  It's a very gradual redistribution of power and wealth.  The western world will only decline economically - the game is up.

Market forces? As in free-markets? It has nothing to do with what the markets can do for themselves. To get to the state we're in, the "market forces" we're structurally determined. There's your free-market theory.

Which leads to the conservative dream of redistributing wealth from America's middle class to the poor of the ROW with the ultimate goal of establishing America as second world country, in which there is a wealthy ruling class and a poor working class. In other words, a plutocracy, not much different than Mexico. Maybe you're new to the program, but it has nothing to do with "market forces" and everything to do with concentrating wealth and power. Get it now?

The big problem here is that the conservatives have effectively convinced Americans to vote against their best interests for decades. When the knuckleheads here finally wake up and smell the coffee, I'll be right in the thick of it.  ;-()

No, it has everything to do with market forces.

OK, US Car Company employs 100,000 employees in USA.  French Car Company employs 100,000 employees in France.  French Car Company moves production to China, saves millions of pounds in overheads, cuts prices and boasts bigger profits with no workforce "issues".

French Car Company increases sales throughout the WORLD, boasts bigger profits at the expense of US Car Company.  US Car Company is now losing money with bloated, mollycoddled workforce on a 37 hour week with pension plans etc... whilst sales are plummeting through the floor....

What does US Car Company do....


All about market forces...  The far east IS the production centre of the world.  You're the CEO of the US Car Company - what do you do? Sink or swim?

What you are seeing Babblelot is a slow shift in power and there is absoutely nothing that can be done about it unless you resort to protectionist, isolationist policies like 50s USA.... and with your countries debt levels I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Yes, thatís the outcome when governments (not markets) make trade policy. With respect to protectionism, letís start with 2010 and work from there. While the world economy is depressed and unemployment is high, China is experiencing huge trade surpluses because the Chinese government (not markets) have pegged their currency against the dollar. As a result, all bets are off: some protectionism is necessary. And if that doesnít persuade them to discontinue this predatory policy, then more still. None of this, you will note, resembles "market forces."
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 11:33:24 PM by Babblelot »
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Online FedFanForever

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2010, 01:25:21 AM »
I dispute the notion that there is any real shift in power to China/India. How many aircraft carrier battle groups do they have deployed?

It's not a game of RISK....

I said gradual shift in power and what difference will a few aircraft carriers make when the hordes at home get restless?

Economic power outweighs military power many times over btw.

China is the one that has to worry about the restless hordes, not America. Sure China is where all our manufacturing is located, but that's for profitability. If China wants to start a world war - American can relocate manufacturing + it can feed its people many times over. Can China make the same claim?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 01:27:18 AM by FedFanForever »
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Offline britbox

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2010, 04:00:35 AM »
I dispute the notion that there is any real shift in power to China/India. How many aircraft carrier battle groups do they have deployed?

It's not a game of RISK....

I said gradual shift in power and what difference will a few aircraft carriers make when the hordes at home get restless?

Economic power outweighs military power many times over btw.

China is the one that has to worry about the restless hordes, not America. Sure China is where all our manufacturing is located, but that's for profitability. If China wants to start a world war - American can relocate manufacturing + it can feed its people many times over. Can China make the same claim?

No offence but that sounds like playground talk... why on earth would China "want to start a world war"?

We're talking about jobs, economics and prosperity... 

Offline britbox

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2010, 04:12:08 AM »

I think depressed wages is a byproduct of globalization and it won't get any better. It's coming full circle.


It is, and that's not incongruent with anything I've said. It's all the same. The profit motive will always chase the lowest wage, whether here or abroad. And the people be damned.  

There is a double edge it - because the people losing their jobs in the west may be damned but the recipients are obviously benefiting.  Market forces buddy.  It's a very gradual redistribution of power and wealth.  The western world will only decline economically - the game is up.

Market forces? As in free-markets? It has nothing to do with what the markets can do for themselves. To get to the state we're in, the "market forces" we're structurally determined. There's your free-market theory.

Which leads to the conservative dream of redistributing wealth from America's middle class to the poor of the ROW with the ultimate goal of establishing America as second world country, in which there is a wealthy ruling class and a poor working class. In other words, a plutocracy, not much different than Mexico. Maybe you're new to the program, but it has nothing to do with "market forces" and everything to do with concentrating wealth and power. Get it now?

The big problem here is that the conservatives have effectively convinced Americans to vote against their best interests for decades. When the knuckleheads here finally wake up and smell the coffee, I'll be right in the thick of it.  ;-()

No, it has everything to do with market forces.

OK, US Car Company employs 100,000 employees in USA.  French Car Company employs 100,000 employees in France.  French Car Company moves production to China, saves millions of pounds in overheads, cuts prices and boasts bigger profits with no workforce "issues".

French Car Company increases sales throughout the WORLD, boasts bigger profits at the expense of US Car Company.  US Car Company is now losing money with bloated, mollycoddled workforce on a 37 hour week with pension plans etc... whilst sales are plummeting through the floor....

What does US Car Company do....


All about market forces...  The far east IS the production centre of the world.  You're the CEO of the US Car Company - what do you do? Sink or swim?

What you are seeing Babblelot is a slow shift in power and there is absoutely nothing that can be done about it unless you resort to protectionist, isolationist policies like 50s USA.... and with your countries debt levels I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Yes, thatís the outcome when governments (not markets) make trade policy. With respect to protectionism, letís start with 2010 and work from there. While the world economy is depressed and unemployment is high, China is experiencing huge trade surpluses because the Chinese government (not markets) have pegged their currency against the dollar. As a result, all bets are off: some protectionism is necessary. And if that doesnít persuade them to discontinue this predatory policy, then more still. None of this, you will note, resembles "market forces."

It is global market forces that are dictating... Sure, government policies past and present have allowed this to happen.  Globalization made the USA an economic super power and globalization will likely see it decline. If you think otherwise, where are the increased prosperity, jobs etc... going to come from?

The last rites will be read when then US Dollar ceases to become the global monetary standard... and at some stage that will likely happen.  Actually, that's been mentioned as one of the possible reasons the US held such a tough line with Iraq - Hussein was going to start trading his oil in Euros.  If others followed that lead, then it could have set a very dangerous precedent.

Online Babblelot

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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2010, 08:50:45 AM »

I think depressed wages is a byproduct of globalization and it won't get any better. It's coming full circle.


It is, and that's not incongruent with anything I've said. It's all the same. The profit motive will always chase the lowest wage, whether here or abroad. And the people be damned.  

There is a double edge it - because the people losing their jobs in the west may be damned but the recipients are obviously benefiting.  Market forces buddy.  It's a very gradual redistribution of power and wealth.  The western world will only decline economically - the game is up.

Market forces? As in free-markets? It has nothing to do with what the markets can do for themselves. To get to the state we're in, the "market forces" we're structurally determined. There's your free-market theory.

Which leads to the conservative dream of redistributing wealth from America's middle class to the poor of the ROW with the ultimate goal of establishing America as second world country, in which there is a wealthy ruling class and a poor working class. In other words, a plutocracy, not much different than Mexico. Maybe you're new to the program, but it has nothing to do with "market forces" and everything to do with concentrating wealth and power. Get it now?

The big problem here is that the conservatives have effectively convinced Americans to vote against their best interests for decades. When the knuckleheads here finally wake up and smell the coffee, I'll be right in the thick of it.  ;-()

No, it has everything to do with market forces.

OK, US Car Company employs 100,000 employees in USA.  French Car Company employs 100,000 employees in France.  French Car Company moves production to China, saves millions of pounds in overheads, cuts prices and boasts bigger profits with no workforce "issues".

French Car Company increases sales throughout the WORLD, boasts bigger profits at the expense of US Car Company.  US Car Company is now losing money with bloated, mollycoddled workforce on a 37 hour week with pension plans etc... whilst sales are plummeting through the floor....

What does US Car Company do....


All about market forces...  The far east IS the production centre of the world.  You're the CEO of the US Car Company - what do you do? Sink or swim?

What you are seeing Babblelot is a slow shift in power and there is absoutely nothing that can be done about it unless you resort to protectionist, isolationist policies like 50s USA.... and with your countries debt levels I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Yes, thatís the outcome when governments (not markets) make trade policy. With respect to protectionism, letís start with 2010 and work from there. While the world economy is depressed and unemployment is high, China is experiencing huge trade surpluses because the Chinese government (not markets) have pegged their currency against the dollar. As a result, all bets are off: some protectionism is necessary. And if that doesnít persuade them to discontinue this predatory policy, then more still. None of this, you will note, resembles "market forces."

It is global market forces that are dictating... Sure, government policies past and present have allowed this to happen.  Globalization made the USA an economic super power and globalization will likely see it decline. If you think otherwise, where are the increased prosperity, jobs etc... going to come from?

The last rites will be read when then US Dollar ceases to become the global monetary standard... and at some stage that will likely happen.  Actually, that's been mentioned as one of the possible reasons the US held such a tough line with Iraq - Hussein was going to start trading his oil in Euros.  If others followed that lead, then it could have set a very dangerous precedent.

I started down this path not because I'm worried about our status as the preeminent super power or the dollar, but because the conservative policies of the past 30 years have created a multi-national corporatocracy that has brought with it the rapid demise of our middle class.

To restore our middle class, some policy changes are required, and these changes will create American jobs. Keep in mind, up to this point, we've been playing globalization with one arm tied behind our back. Here are a few changes that will help level the playing field--tilting in our favor--and go far to rebuilding our middle class:
1. Single payer health care. We don't have it and the ROW does. This is primary reason we lose our competitive advantage. Factories go elsewhere because the skyrocketing cost of employer based health care is a deterrent to doing business in the Sates. (That's the dirty little secret of conservativism. And dumb-America fights against SPHC only to cut off its nose to spite its face.)
2. Resort to some protectionism in certain industries to keep some good paying jobs here and also to force China to allow it's currency to fluctuate
3. Rewrite trade agreements to allow American exports into Asian markets
4. Fund brand new industries that will lessen our dependency on foreign oil
5. Create a high-speed railway network. We have zero high-speed trains in the US.

Returning to the preeminent economic super power is not anything I've argued for. I'm interested in rebuilding our middle class. But anything that will upset the status quo will upset the conservatives who will, in turn, tell their ignorant legions to be outraged. Like I said above, conservatives have conned dumb-America to vote against their best interests for decades.

upshot: politics drives economics
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 10:27:52 AM by Babblelot »
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Re: What have we gotten ourselves into?
« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2010, 11:18:31 AM »
No offence but that sounds like playground talk... why on earth would China "want to start a world war"?

We're talking about jobs, economics and prosperity... 

I'm just saying in the worst case scenario, China comes up snake eyes. They are the ones with 1.3 billion mouths to feed on less arable land then the USA.
Then we will fight in the shade.