Author Topic: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)  (Read 6716 times)

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Offline euroka1

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2010, 06:33:25 PM »
Can't play tennis in this heat so am back to BGT's thread.
As said way back, I was surprised that I came out of the quiz moderately liberal. But reading some of what has been written since, I'm concerned that there are increasing pressures in the professional and social world to conform to ways that other people say one should conform. As a thinking human being, I've always tried to be considerate and understanding towards other human beings who I come across in both these areas. but it doesn't always seem to work. On the board of my professional organization last month, we had to discuss the formation of what amounted to professional ethics police, diversity police, harassment police, and discrimination police within it. In the major british scientific journal today, I read about the activities of the Office of Research Integrity and the implementation of "Responsible conduct of research" programs. Increasingly I feel I am being told "what to think and how to think it". It all seems like Orwell's 1984 is starting to happen 25 years or so after the date (1984 itself like 2001 was somewhat of a non-event).

I like to think that one can behave and opine responsibly according to one's own standards and to be respected for it. It's good to be able to say that most people on tennis4you seem to follow this liberal attitude.

Offline FedFanForever

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2010, 07:30:08 PM »
How about this: I don't want to continue this debate for 2 reasons: 1) my final exams are coming up this week and I shouldn't spend much time online anyways and 2) I don't like to engage in debates if I can't change anyone's minds, and I'm obviously not changing your mind nor you mine.

Good luck on your finals! :)
For me, discussing these issues is a learning process about the issue, myself, and those I'm engaged with, not so much about trying to change someones mind.


Regarding your last statement, once people stop treating other people differently based on the color of their skin, maybe then we wouldn't have such different experiences.
That makes absolutely no sense, sorry. :Confused:  I thought you wanted diversity? :rofl_2



MT - basically it's like John Roberts said in an opinion last year. "The way to get beyond race is to get beyond race.". Liberals just can't get beyond it.
Then we will fight in the shade.

Offline Belgian Miss

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #62 on: July 25, 2010, 10:30:11 AM »
Regarding your last statement, once people stop treating other people differently based on the color of their skin, maybe then we wouldn't have such different experiences.
That makes absolutely no sense, sorry. :Confused:  I thought you wanted diversity? :rofl_2

Monster, what BGT is trying to say is the following:

* African Americans are three times as likely as white people to be poor;
* 22.7 per cent of African Americans are poor (higher than any other ethnic minority);
* 30 per cent of African American children are poor;
* black women are the most vulnerable to becoming/being poor
(from US Census Bureau, 2002)
* also, proportionally, more black people are arrested for crimes than whites
(from US Federal Bureau of Investigation)

Unless you want to contend that blacks are inherently lazy (in which case the discussion ends here for me) it is pretty clear that there is an issue here - one that is heavily, if not mostly, based on race (or rather how it is dealt with). It seems like you would like to believe that everyone is born equally (which is true) and has equal chances (not true), and prefer to simply put an issue like this aside. I agree that in a ideal world it shouldn't be an issue, but that isn't the case, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this. You personally might not put much relevance into race: that's a good attitude and one I support. But you can't be blind to the fact that most people do and that, as is apparent from the numbers, it's pretty bad. There are a lot of other factors, and I don't want to use race as an umbrella excuse, but I do understand BGT when she says that different races (or 'colours') have different experiences.
 

Offline FedFanForever

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #63 on: July 25, 2010, 11:08:41 AM »
Monster, what BGT is trying to say is the following:

* African Americans are three times as likely as white people to be poor;
* 22.7 per cent of African Americans are poor (higher than any other ethnic minority);
* 30 per cent of African American children are poor;
* black women are the most vulnerable to becoming/being poor
(from US Census Bureau, 2002)
* also, proportionally, more black people are arrested for crimes than whites
(from US Federal Bureau of Investigation)

Unless you want to contend that blacks are inherently lazy (in which case the discussion ends here for me) it is pretty clear that there is an issue here - one that is heavily, if not mostly, based on race (or rather how it is dealt with). It seems like you would like to believe that everyone is born equally (which is true) and has equal chances (not true), and prefer to simply put an issue like this aside. I agree that in a ideal world it shouldn't be an issue, but that isn't the case, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this. You personally might not put much relevance into race: that's a good attitude and one I support. But you can't be blind to the fact that most people do and that, as is apparent from the numbers, it's pretty bad. There are a lot of other factors, and I don't want to use race as an umbrella excuse, but I do understand BGT when she says that different races (or 'colours') have different experiences.
 

You say that it's not an option that blacks are lazy, so you conclude it's racism that keeps them in poor conditions. Yet you can't provide any such proof. I suggest you watch "the Wire".
Then we will fight in the shade.

Offline euroka1

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2010, 11:56:18 AM »
Well, I'm all for equal opportunity and I believe that has to start in a good school system. It means better qualified and better paid teachers for a start, something which seems politically very hard to achieve.  :confused1:

As one who was born, educated, and came of age in another country, I've always been surprised at the very high voltage that the race issue presently generates. Without any bad intentions, I've received several pretty bad shocks in my time for saying something that seemed innocent. This is unfortunate as I'm inclined to think that this sort of negative miscomprehension feeds back on itself with detrimental results all round.

One of the strengths of the US is that it has been very much a melting pot society for at least 100 years and new minorities are appearing all the time. Given time, they seem to blend in. Look at the Irish, for example.

Online monstertruck

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #65 on: July 25, 2010, 12:58:43 PM »
Regarding your last statement, once people stop treating other people differently based on the color of their skin, maybe then we wouldn't have such different experiences.
That makes absolutely no sense, sorry. :Confused:  I thought you wanted diversity? :rofl_2

Monster, what BGT is trying to say is the following:

* African Americans are three times as likely as white people to be poor;
* 22.7 per cent of African Americans are poor (higher than any other ethnic minority);
* 30 per cent of African American children are poor;
* black women are the most vulnerable to becoming/being poor
(from US Census Bureau, 2002)
* also, proportionally, more black people are arrested for crimes than whites
(from US Federal Bureau of Investigation)

Unless you want to contend that blacks are inherently lazy (in which case the discussion ends here for me) it is pretty clear that there is an issue here - one that is heavily, if not mostly, based on race (or rather how it is dealt with). It seems like you would like to believe that everyone is born equally (which is true) and has equal chances (not true), and prefer to simply put an issue like this aside. I agree that in a ideal world it shouldn't be an issue, but that isn't the case, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this. You personally might not put much relevance into race: that's a good attitude and one I support. But you can't be blind to the fact that most people do and that, as is apparent from the numbers, it's pretty bad. There are a lot of other factors, and I don't want to use race as an umbrella excuse, but I do understand BGT when she says that different races (or 'colours') have different experiences.
 
Assuming your facts are correct I will contend the following:

*  No one is inherently lazy.
*  No one is born equally, only with equal rights.
*  Not everyone is born with the same opportunities.
*  I put zero relevance on a person's race except in celebration of their culture.
*  I've lived and worked among a variety of communities on 5 different continents and was welcomed by all.  I am certainly not blind to the fact that some people treat others differently because of skin color.  However, as long as people continue to look at problems and solutions through the myopic lens of race, this will continue to be the case.
Sort of like if you continue to eat corn on the cob (my favorite veggie!) you'll continue to shat kernels of corn.  The 2 are inseparable.

It all starts with education, both in the home and at school.

CONK da ball!!!

Offline Belgian Miss

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #66 on: July 25, 2010, 01:37:22 PM »
You say that it's not an option that blacks are lazy, so you conclude it's racism that keeps them in poor conditions. Yet you can't provide any such proof. I suggest you watch "the Wire".

I didn't make any 'conclusions' about racism. I suggest you reread my post.

@ monstertruck: I pretty much agree with everything you said. Race is (or shouldn't be) an issue. And education is, indeed, paramount to addressing some of the imbalances that exist between the different cultural groups. I work with ethnic minorities (mostly Arab cultures) and you really need to make them aware of the importance of a diploma. But as you are probably aware, some people simply lack the funds to send their kids to school, their parents (or their kids) don't recognize the importance of schooling, especially for girls, etc (these are just typical examples, there are lots of other reasons of course).

So is it that wrong for the government to step in and correct the failings of the market?


Offline Belgian Miss

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #67 on: July 25, 2010, 01:39:00 PM »
*correct, as in: attempt to correct. The exact measures (and their success) are always open to debate.

Offline FedFanForever

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #68 on: July 25, 2010, 03:15:56 PM »
You say that it's not an option that blacks are lazy, so you conclude it's racism that keeps them in poor conditions. Yet you can't provide any such proof. I suggest you watch "the Wire".


I didn't make any 'conclusions' about racism. I suggest you reread my post.

@ monstertruck: I pretty much agree with everything you said. Race is (or shouldn't be) an issue. And education is, indeed, paramount to addressing some of the imbalances that exist between the different cultural groups. I work with ethnic minorities (mostly Arab cultures) and you really need to make them aware of the importance of a diploma. But as you are probably aware, some people simply lack the funds to send their kids to school, their parents (or their kids) don't recognize the importance of schooling, especially for girls, etc (these are just typical examples, there are lots of other reasons of course).

So is it that wrong for the government to step in and correct the failings of the market?




Except most blacks deride education as something white folks do and they insult other blacks who do pursue real education as "acting white".

http://educationnext.org/actingwhite/
Then we will fight in the shade.

Offline BGT

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #69 on: July 25, 2010, 03:20:32 PM »
Regarding your last statement, once people stop treating other people differently based on the color of their skin, maybe then we wouldn't have such different experiences.
That makes absolutely no sense, sorry. :Confused:  I thought you wanted diversity? :rofl_2

Monster, what BGT is trying to say is the following:

* African Americans are three times as likely as white people to be poor;
* 22.7 per cent of African Americans are poor (higher than any other ethnic minority);
* 30 per cent of African American children are poor;
* black women are the most vulnerable to becoming/being poor
(from US Census Bureau, 2002)
* also, proportionally, more black people are arrested for crimes than whites
(from US Federal Bureau of Investigation)

Unless you want to contend that blacks are inherently lazy (in which case the discussion ends here for me) it is pretty clear that there is an issue here - one that is heavily, if not mostly, based on race (or rather how it is dealt with). It seems like you would like to believe that everyone is born equally (which is true) and has equal chances (not true), and prefer to simply put an issue like this aside. I agree that in a ideal world it shouldn't be an issue, but that isn't the case, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this. You personally might not put much relevance into race: that's a good attitude and one I support. But you can't be blind to the fact that most people do and that, as is apparent from the numbers, it's pretty bad. There are a lot of other factors, and I don't want to use race as an umbrella excuse, but I do understand BGT when she says that different races (or 'colours') have different experiences.
 
Assuming your facts are correct I will contend the following:

*  No one is inherently lazy.
*  No one is born equally, only with equal rights.
*  Not everyone is born with the same opportunities.
*  I put zero relevance on a person's race except in celebration of their culture.
*  I've lived and worked among a variety of communities on 5 different continents and was welcomed by all.  I am certainly not blind to the fact that some people treat others differently because of skin color.  However, as long as people continue to look at problems and solutions through the myopic lens of race, this will continue to be the case.
Sort of like if you continue to eat corn on the cob (my favorite veggie!) you'll continue to shat kernels of corn.  The 2 are inseparable.

It all starts with education, both in the home and at school.



Too bad you can't say the same for the police, judicial system or just regular people in general. :rofl_2:



Offline BGT

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2010, 03:23:25 PM »
You say that it's not an option that blacks are lazy, so you conclude it's racism that keeps them in poor conditions. Yet you can't provide any such proof. I suggest you watch "the Wire".


I didn't make any 'conclusions' about racism. I suggest you reread my post.

@ monstertruck: I pretty much agree with everything you said. Race is (or shouldn't be) an issue. And education is, indeed, paramount to addressing some of the imbalances that exist between the different cultural groups. I work with ethnic minorities (mostly Arab cultures) and you really need to make them aware of the importance of a diploma. But as you are probably aware, some people simply lack the funds to send their kids to school, their parents (or their kids) don't recognize the importance of schooling, especially for girls, etc (these are just typical examples, there are lots of other reasons of course).

So is it that wrong for the government to step in and correct the failings of the market?




Except most blacks deride education as something white folks do and they insult other blacks who do pursue real education as "acting white".

http://educationnext.org/actingwhite/


 ..-)

Please learn to differentiate between blacks in general and blacks who've lived in poverty their entire lives, who've never known anyone to get an education and don't know that it's actually possible to achieve such.



Online monstertruck

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #71 on: July 25, 2010, 09:50:31 PM »
Regarding your last statement, once people stop treating other people differently based on the color of their skin, maybe then we wouldn't have such different experiences.
That makes absolutely no sense, sorry. :Confused:  I thought you wanted diversity? :rofl_2


Monster, what BGT is trying to say is the following:

* African Americans are three times as likely as white people to be poor;
* 22.7 per cent of African Americans are poor (higher than any other ethnic minority);
* 30 per cent of African American children are poor;
* black women are the most vulnerable to becoming/being poor
(from US Census Bureau, 2002)
* also, proportionally, more black people are arrested for crimes than whites
(from US Federal Bureau of Investigation)

Unless you want to contend that blacks are inherently lazy (in which case the discussion ends here for me) it is pretty clear that there is an issue here - one that is heavily, if not mostly, based on race (or rather how it is dealt with). It seems like you would like to believe that everyone is born equally (which is true) and has equal chances (not true), and prefer to simply put an issue like this aside. I agree that in a ideal world it shouldn't be an issue, but that isn't the case, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this. You personally might not put much relevance into race: that's a good attitude and one I support. But you can't be blind to the fact that most people do and that, as is apparent from the numbers, it's pretty bad. There are a lot of other factors, and I don't want to use race as an umbrella excuse, but I do understand BGT when she says that different races (or 'colours') have different experiences.
 
Assuming your facts are correct I will contend the following:

*  No one is inherently lazy.
*  No one is born equally, only with equal rights.
*  Not everyone is born with the same opportunities.
*  I put zero relevance on a person's race except in celebration of their culture.
*  I've lived and worked among a variety of communities on 5 different continents and was welcomed by all.  I am certainly not blind to the fact that some people treat others differently because of skin color.  However, as long as people continue to look at problems and solutions through the myopic lens of race, this will continue to be the case.
Sort of like if you continue to eat corn on the cob (my favorite veggie!) you'll continue to shat kernels of corn.  The 2 are inseparable.

It all starts with education, both in the home and at school.




Too bad you can't say the same for the police, judicial system or just regular people in general. :rofl_2:
I'm not sure why you think that's funny.  I certainly don't.

Let's not forget it goes both ways.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=8148986&page=1


From The Savior himself. :rofl_2: :rofl_2:
JFC!!!! :lmao:

So what are you saying, regular people in general think race is pertinent to any relationship?  Holy Crap!
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 10:23:53 PM by monstertruck »
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Offline BGT

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2010, 10:25:47 PM »
I'm not sure I get your point.



Online monstertruck

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #73 on: July 25, 2010, 10:28:48 PM »
I'm not sure I get your point.
Too bad you can't say the same for Prez B.O.! :rofl_2:
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Offline BGT

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #74 on: July 25, 2010, 10:40:49 PM »
Are you capable of explaining your point? I believe I see it, but I don't want to assume.



Online monstertruck

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #75 on: July 26, 2010, 06:39:28 AM »
Are you capable of explaining your point? I believe I see it, but I don't want to assume.
Pardon me, I thought it was pretty obvious.
I substituted Prez B.O. into your statement as another example of how some people look at race before getting all the facts.  How ironic that he is a peron of color. :\
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Offline BGT

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #76 on: July 26, 2010, 09:04:48 AM »
Are you capable of explaining your point? I believe I see it, but I don't want to assume.
Pardon me, I thought it was pretty obvious.
I substituted Prez B.O. into your statement as another example of how some people look at race before getting all the facts.  How ironic that he is a peron of color. :\

If my knowledge serves me correctly, it was the police officer who wrote in police report that the caller claimed a black man was entering into that residence when the caller did no such thing. :rofl_2: And yes the police did act stupidly. He refused to look at the man's identification, which would have proven that he was in his own house. :rofl_2: I'm sure you are aware of the Shirley Sherrod case of last week. I think that one was the greater travesty. ;-()
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 09:09:00 AM by BGT »



Online monstertruck

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #77 on: July 26, 2010, 11:37:39 AM »
Are you capable of explaining your point? I believe I see it, but I don't want to assume.
Pardon me, I thought it was pretty obvious.
I substituted Prez B.O. into your statement as another example of how some people look at race before getting all the facts.  How ironic that he is a peron of color. :\

If my knowledge serves me correctly, it was the police officer who wrote in police report that the caller claimed a black man was entering into that residence when the caller did no such thing. :rofl_2: And yes the police did act stupidly. He refused to look at the man's identification, which would have proven that he was in his own house. :rofl_2: I'm sure you are aware of the Shirley Sherrod case of last week. I think that one was the greater travesty. ;-()
FACT:  the witness said in the 911 call that one of the men might be Hispanic.
FACT:  Officer Crowley wrote in his report that prior to entering the residence Ms. Whalen told him that 2 black had attempted to enter the premises.  She later denied having ever made those comments upon being slagged as a racist by the media and the public.
QUESTION:  Did Officer Crowley lie in his report or did Ms. Whalen?
QUESTION:  What the hell was the Prez doing sticking his nose into this?  It seems that both parties made mistakes during the encounter and were willing to admit as much by all charges being dropped.

I maintain that the Prez jumped the gun by looking at the situation as a race issue before getting the facts straight.
I think the Sherrod case is another example of people trying to be politically correct without knowing all the info.  Perhaps you could take a page from her speech to the NAACP where she continually reiterates 'it's NOT about RACE!'
Small wonder Fox news was at the forefront of that fiasco.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 12:01:45 PM by monstertruck »
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Offline FedFanForever

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #78 on: July 26, 2010, 11:49:57 AM »
MT - it turns out that Sherrod is still a racist. If you read the entire transcript of the March 2010 NAACP speech, she calls out Fox News and the Republicans as a bunch of racists for opposing ObamaCare. No doubt BGT also think Republicans are a bunch of racists.
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Online monstertruck

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Re: How liberal or conservative are you? (quiz)
« Reply #79 on: July 26, 2010, 12:06:34 PM »
MT - it turns out that Sherrod is still a racist. If you read the entire transcript of the March 2010 NAACP speech, she calls out Fox News and the Republicans as a bunch of racists for opposing ObamaCare. No doubt BGT also think Republicans are a bunch of racists.
I don't think Sherrod is a racist. 
I have no idea what BGT thinks re: Republicans.
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