Author Topic: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic  (Read 14195 times)

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Offline vsty

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #80 on: May 23, 2011, 01:18:40 PM »
I think Rafa needs to go more to Nole's forehand because that's the wing which is more vulnerable than his BH which was one thing I noticed during Rome final. Nole's BH not only is a world-class attacking shot but is also a very good  neutralising drive which helps him get back into a rally at a neutral position from a defensive position. His FH is a different story, when gone flat & wide to his FH he sometimes brushes the ball providing a short reply. Plus his FHDTL though is a good shot is nowhere as solid a shot as his BH. Plus, I think Rafa needs to take initiative early in the rally, unlike Rome & Madrid where I think is too passive waiting for Nole to commit UFE's which current Nole just isn't doing, strangely enough Nole is wearing Rafa down on many occasions & going after his shots whenever Rafa drops it short. I think for Rafa's BH to be more effective he needs to dictate with his FH allowing him more time with short/soft reply from his opponent. Of course it's all easier said than done !!  :)

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #81 on: May 23, 2011, 01:26:05 PM »
I think by going to the Nole FH, Nadal could reestablish the patterns that made him successful in the past.  This would certainly help create more balls coming cross-court to his BH which would give him more time to set up. 

I agree with you about Nole's BH!  Certainly the harder wing to break down.
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Offline Swish

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #82 on: May 23, 2011, 05:43:24 PM »
I'm going to see the Rome final again so I can report on Nadal's backhand.  :)>>>>

I've got it downloaded but didn't really look for the BH in particular at the time.
 

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #83 on: May 23, 2011, 06:34:03 PM »
I'm going to see the Rome final again so I can report on Nadal's backhand.  :)>>>>

I've got it downloaded but didn't really look for the BH in particular at the time.
Excellent!  It'll be interesting to hear your analysis of stroke mechanics and tactics.
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Offline Swish

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #84 on: May 23, 2011, 11:02:46 PM »
I'm going to see the Rome final again so I can report on Nadal's backhand.  :)>>>>

I've got it downloaded but didn't really look for the BH in particular at the time.
Excellent!  It'll be interesting to hear your analysis of stroke mechanics and tactics.

Quite a match.  :cool:

Overall Nadal's BH looked good but it didn't bother Djokovic much.
The accuracy of the BH was very good.
Almost any player would have made a good share of UE's against it, but Djokovic was just as consistent.

Nadal seeing how the BH wasn't very effective started to moonball some, it did work for awhile as Djokovic didn't put the usual pace on returning it but besides that he was able to get it back effectively.
After awhile Djokovic started zeroing in on those moonballs and put quite a bit of pace on returning them, some were quite short but even though they were short they seemed to work early.
 
A player like Fed would have a terrible time with these on his BH side BTW.

On the BH side Nadal just had nowhere to go, nothing worked and even flattening out the BH didn't give it enough pace to bother Djokovic. The moonball was a way to mix things up and a last resort, but didn't work either after Djokovic adjusted to it.

Nadal was just outplayed, with consistency and pace. No traces of mental demons coming from Djokovic either, even after giving up a break immediately at one point.

I can't see anything seriously wrong with Nadal's BH, it seems to have consistency and pace as before, I have to retract my earlier statement.


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Nadal has to find a way to put more pace on the BH and FH, without doing that Djokovic can get to almost everything and return it with at least the same consistency of Nadal and more pace.

Nadal always could get so many points just by using the topspin and clearance over the net to draw UE's, amazing that Djokovic is matching the consistency of Nadal and with more pace with less net clearance.
Djokovic's court coverage is even better with Nadal as his topspin shots give more time to get to the ball.

Nadal can't rely anymore on Djokovic's inconsistency, mental demons from past results, endurance problems and getting down on himself when broken.


Offline monstertruck

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2011, 06:57:06 AM »
Some good stuff in there SwishMan.
I thought the moonball mix would work as well but Nole seemed to solve that problem rather easily.

Your thoughts on Nole's improvements in mental fitness are spot on.  I kept waiting for that moment when the pressure was on for him to breakdown and Nadal turn the momentum.  Time and again Nole passed the test with ease, brimming with new found self-confidence.  Perhaps the new mindset goes hand in hand with his improved physical fitness.

You mention that Raf needs to develop more pace on both wings.  Falc had suggested he flatten out the FH as well.  To me, that's not the solution as that requires major changes in stroke mechanics.  We all know how hard Nadal has to practice in order to find his rhythm with his current strokes.  I can't imagine him doing an overhaul of both wings in order to develop more pace.  That being said, if anyone can do it, it's Nadal.  His determination to improve and play the best tennis possible is unequaled.

My suggestion would be to change the patterns in the points.  He must force Nole to play more cross-court rallies (preferably to Raf's FH) and punish Nole for hitting DTL by looking & cheating to that side.  This should be the focus of his first shot in every point (serve or ROS) and any chance he has at a neutral ball.

SwishMan, how many times did you see Nadal wrong-footed in that match?  I was stunned in the last 2 matches to see him sooooo off balance.  Credit to Nole for changing the anticipated patterns of the points!

All that being said, I still bet the farm on Raf winning should they meet in the final.
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Offline Start da Game

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #86 on: May 24, 2011, 08:51:42 AM »
sometimes one has to wonder what sport people watch........guess you are taking notes on nadal's current level of backhand against isner, monstertruck........by now you should be knowing that you are arguing just for the heck of arguing........

as you can see his backhand is dreadful at the moment.........no, it is not just against djokovic nor just against top players.........it by itself plain sucks at the moment........

he is rattled against john isner on clay for f**k's sake.........go ahead and preach us how his game is still there but the opponents are robbing him of time.........

what more evidences do you need? shall we have a futures player contesting against rafa? he has lost a set to john isner at the french open........his game is that pathetic at the moment........
 
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #87 on: May 24, 2011, 09:08:50 AM »
Another thoughtful fanboy post supporting your side of the discussion with technical analysis of stroke mechanics illustrating the cause and solution of the alleged breakdown.  :thumbs-up:

Keep up the good work! ;-()

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Offline Start da Game

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #88 on: May 24, 2011, 09:20:14 AM »
Another thoughtful fanboy post supporting your side of the discussion with technical analysis of stroke mechanics illustrating the cause and solution of the alleged breakdown.  :thumbs-up:

Keep up the good work! ;-()

what more technical analysis? any decent follower would notice the obvious decline in his backhand dynamics which i have illustrated in the previous pages.........

losing sets to isner on the parisian clay is a frigging joke and if that's not proof enough to how dreadful his backhand and subsequently his overall game has become, one just has to quit saying you are arguing just for the heck of it........


Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline Swish

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #89 on: May 24, 2011, 09:40:42 AM »
Another thoughtful fanboy post supporting your side of the discussion with technical analysis of stroke mechanics illustrating the cause and solution of the alleged breakdown.  :thumbs-up:

Keep up the good work! ;-()

what more technical analysis? any decent follower would notice the obvious decline in his backhand dynamics which i have illustrated in the previous pages.........

losing sets to isner on the parisian clay is a frigging joke and if that's not proof enough to how dreadful his backhand and subsequently his overall game has become, one just has to quit saying you are arguing just for the heck of it........




No doubt something isn't right with his game, no way should Isner be playing on the same level and putting such pressure on Nadal.
Hard to identify it, just the overall game of Nadal doesn't seem very effective.


Offline monstertruck

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #90 on: May 24, 2011, 09:44:21 AM »
Another thoughtful fanboy post supporting your side of the discussion with technical analysis of stroke mechanics illustrating the cause and solution of the alleged breakdown.  :thumbs-up:

Keep up the good work! ;-()

what more technical analysis?
As of this moment you have failed to produce one shred of stroke analysis. 
Are far as I'm concerned the discussion is over unless you'd like to back up your position with some actual facts.
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Offline Start da Game

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #91 on: May 24, 2011, 10:07:54 AM »
Another thoughtful fanboy post supporting your side of the discussion with technical analysis of stroke mechanics illustrating the cause and solution of the alleged breakdown.  :thumbs-up:

Keep up the good work! ;-()

what more technical analysis?
As of this moment you have failed to produce one shred of stroke analysis. 
Are far as I'm concerned the discussion is over unless you'd like to back up your position with some actual facts.

keep denying it despite uncle toni's frustration from the stands about his nephew's fragile backhand........i have no problem........
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #92 on: May 24, 2011, 10:09:34 AM »
Another thoughtful fanboy post supporting your side of the discussion with technical analysis of stroke mechanics illustrating the cause and solution of the alleged breakdown.  :thumbs-up:

Keep up the good work! ;-()

what more technical analysis?
As of this moment you have failed to produce one shred of stroke analysis. 
Are far as I'm concerned the discussion is over unless you'd like to back up your position with some actual facts.
keep denying it despite uncle toni's frustration from the stands about his nephew's fragile backhand........i have no problem........
Another 'fragile' BH forces the error from Isner for a break to go 5-2.  Nice call Fanboy, your tennis knowledge is incredible. :rofl_2:
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 10:11:14 AM by monstertruck »
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Offline Start da Game

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #93 on: May 24, 2011, 10:14:44 AM »
Another thoughtful fanboy post supporting your side of the discussion with technical analysis of stroke mechanics illustrating the cause and solution of the alleged breakdown.  :thumbs-up:

Keep up the good work! ;-()

what more technical analysis? any decent follower would notice the obvious decline in his backhand dynamics which i have illustrated in the previous pages.........

losing sets to isner on the parisian clay is a frigging joke and if that's not proof enough to how dreadful his backhand and subsequently his overall game has become, one just has to quit saying you are arguing just for the heck of it........




No doubt something isn't right with his game, no way should Isner be playing on the same level and putting such pressure on Nadal.
Hard to identify it, just the overall game of Nadal doesn't seem very effective.

he needed this kind of match, swish........he needed to be shaken and reminded of his dreadful game at the moment........
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline Swish

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #94 on: May 24, 2011, 10:18:43 AM »
Why argue about it, you both see something different.
Looking at Isner, I don't see any great improvement in his game but yet he's giving Nadal a tough time.
Nadal's strokes seem decent but hardly any great shots.
The balls are different this year, might make a difference.


I would like to hear why Isner is playing so well against Nadal?


Offline monstertruck

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #95 on: May 24, 2011, 10:21:32 AM »
Why argue about it, you both see something different.
Looking at Isner, I don't see any great improvement in his game but yet he's giving Nadal a tough time.
Nadal's strokes seem decent but hardly any great shots.
The balls are different this year, might make a difference.


I would like to hear why Isner is playing so well against Nadal?
Look at Raf's court position in the sets he lost.  20+ feet behind the baseline gave Isner too much North/South room to hit into.  He mixed it up by coming in and also hitting droppas into that space.  In the sets Raf won, he changed the game to East/West movement and created time for his strokes.  Let's see what happens in the 5th, who will do what to who!
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Offline Swish

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #96 on: May 24, 2011, 10:22:22 AM »
Another thoughtful fanboy post supporting your side of the discussion with technical analysis of stroke mechanics illustrating the cause and solution of the alleged breakdown.  :thumbs-up:

Keep up the good work! ;-()

what more technical analysis? any decent follower would notice the obvious decline in his backhand dynamics which i have illustrated in the previous pages.........

losing sets to isner on the parisian clay is a frigging joke and if that's not proof enough to how dreadful his backhand and subsequently his overall game has become, one just has to quit saying you are arguing just for the heck of it........




No doubt something isn't right with his game, no way should Isner be playing on the same level and putting such pressure on Nadal.
Hard to identify it, just the overall game of Nadal doesn't seem very effective.

he needed this kind of match, swish........he needed to be shaken and reminded of his dreadful game at the moment........

You have a point, only once has anyone given Nadal such a hard time at RG, since Isner isn't playing a great match it has to be a problem with Nadal.

Unless someone has other ideas??? Anyone care to explain this.


Offline monstertruck

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #97 on: May 24, 2011, 10:25:32 AM »
Another thoughtful fanboy post supporting your side of the discussion with technical analysis of stroke mechanics illustrating the cause and solution of the alleged breakdown.  :thumbs-up:

Keep up the good work! ;-()

what more technical analysis? any decent follower would notice the obvious decline in his backhand dynamics which i have illustrated in the previous pages.........

losing sets to isner on the parisian clay is a frigging joke and if that's not proof enough to how dreadful his backhand and subsequently his overall game has become, one just has to quit saying you are arguing just for the heck of it........




No doubt something isn't right with his game, no way should Isner be playing on the same level and putting such pressure on Nadal.
Hard to identify it, just the overall game of Nadal doesn't seem very effective.

he needed this kind of match, swish........he needed to be shaken and reminded of his dreadful game at the moment........

You have a point, only once has anyone given Nadal such a hard time at RG, since Isner isn't playing a great match it has to be a problem with Nadal.

Unless someone has other ideas??? Anyone care to explain this.
At the draw, Raf knew this would be a tough match.  No surprises here.

I fully expect Nadal to take the 5th set.
3 great returns for Raf to set up triple BP.
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Offline Start da Game

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #98 on: May 24, 2011, 10:25:51 AM »
Why argue about it, you both see something different.
Looking at Isner, I don't see any great improvement in his game but yet he's giving Nadal a tough time.
Nadal's strokes seem decent but hardly any great shots.
The balls are different this year, might make a difference.


I would like to hear why Isner is playing so well against Nadal?

that's right, isner is doing his business as usual, nadal isn't........it's a joke that isner was the one dictating points from the baseline in the first 3 sets........this is clay for heaven's sake and the opponent is john isner of all.......

the way i see it, there's too much pressure on his forehand at the moment because he has no substitutes for his temporarily dead backhand........other top players would serve themselves out of trouble often but that's not nadal........

rafa has to rely heavily on his forehand........no doubt he is shaken, but he needed to be shaken just in time at the beginning of the tournament.........
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline Swish

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Re: Rafa's game plan against Djokovic
« Reply #99 on: May 24, 2011, 10:27:07 AM »
A couple of very good shots by Nadal, where have they been?
We can rely on Isner to get shakin' up a bit too.