Author Topic: do you believe in God?  (Read 12015 times)

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Offline Swish

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #180 on: April 04, 2013, 09:23:43 AM »
Jesus in the mideast is suspect.
 
Why come down to earth so late with all the people before he came with no idea what Jesus really wanted from us to get to heaven. I don't want to be loved for eternity. Ha.
 
 
And all the other areas aroung the world still not knowing for a long time. I don't buy it.
 
And letting the children suffer all around the world from starvation? He can't do anything but is god?
 
All this stuff about killing people who disrespect Mohammad, sick people.
 
The Israeli's are one of the sickest countries in the world, completely brainwashed and using god to fill their objective.
 
Catholics think that the earth is the center of the universe in early times, stupid fools. If they were guided by god this would have never happened.
 
Too much bull with all this stuff. 
 
 
 
 
 

Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #181 on: April 04, 2013, 02:51:38 PM »
I believe in Jesse James.  :wub:
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Offline foaquin

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #182 on: April 06, 2013, 10:17:12 PM »
Jesus in the mideast is suspect.
 
Why come down to earth so late with all the people before he came with no idea what Jesus really wanted from us to get to heaven. I don't want to be loved for eternity. Ha.
 
 
And all the other areas aroung the world still not knowing for a long time. I don't buy it.
 

And letting the children suffer all around the world from starvation? He can't do anything but is god?
 
All this stuff about killing people who disrespect Mohammad, sick people.
 
The Israeli's are one of the sickest countries in the world, completely brainwashed and using god to fill their objective.
 
Catholics think that the earth is the center of the universe in early times, stupid fools. If they were guided by god this would have never happened.
 
Too much bull with all this stuff. 
 
 
 
 
 



Good point... I've always wondered  where are the "souls" of those who never had the chance to learn of God and Jesus.

Offline Swish

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #183 on: April 07, 2013, 10:17:57 AM »
Jesus in the mideast is suspect.
 
Why come down to earth so late with all the people before he came with no idea what Jesus really wanted from us to get to heaven. I don't want to be loved for eternity. Ha.
 
 
And all the other areas aroung the world still not knowing for a long time. I don't buy it.
 

And letting the children suffer all around the world from starvation? He can't do anything but is god?
 
All this stuff about killing people who disrespect Mohammad, sick people.
 
The Israeli's are one of the sickest countries in the world, completely brainwashed and using god to fill their objective.
 
Catholics think that the earth is the center of the universe in early times, stupid fools. If they were guided by god this would have never happened.
 
Too much bull with all this stuff. 
 
 


Good point... I've always wondered  where are the "souls" of those who never had the chance to learn of God and Jesus.

There's all kinds of problems like this but hardly ever see them brought up.
 
People want there to be a god, the thought of nothing else after dying is not what most want.
 
Maybe there is a god but not in the form we want or are aware of so there is some hope.
 
 

Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #184 on: April 08, 2013, 12:27:22 PM »
I believe in God of course but by that I only mean a super conscious entity – an entity that is simply aware of its own existence and that it contains all probabilities and possibilities. We are part of it and so we are part of this one super conscious being as well. I feel we are still in very primitive state although both Quantum Physics and Mechanics are taking things to another level and perhaps we are not too far from being highly evolved entity ourselves. This Universe or this reality for me is an experience of good and evil - through this you get to know that you are not and that you are.

Many say that we are here to learn lessons and pay off our karmas that we tend to accumulate throughout the evolution periods by coming into this planet many, many times in the past, but what we really think we are doing is, we are not only experiencing this reality of good and evil in physical form (or let’s say having a human experience) but also, we are rediscovering who we truly are through it. We deliberately forget who we are so that we can relive it again. We already know everything there’s to know. 

The biggest mistake we make is when we think of God as a separate entity, a judgmental figure that will condemn us for our evil deeds or if we don’t follow a particular path or religion. In reality, it’s the religious fundamentalists and materialists that are holding us back by limiting us and by creating not only all sorts of dogmas, but also paradoxes with their extreme views of things.  Both models are dated because neither can explain many things on Earth and beyond. There are just far too many holes in both and neither can give us a picture/explanation that would make sense or ultimately tie in everything. And the mainstream science feels almost retarded at this point. It is unable to give any explanation to subjective reality of things; it doesn’t even have any model to support it.  I do believe both spirituality and Quantum Physics (and Mechanics) will marry each other down the line. It is bound to happen. People are becoming aware of more and more things as we progress and both fundamentalists - be it religious or materialism won’t be able to hold us back for too long.
 
Finally, a few quotes from the Great Einstein:
 
  • God is subtle but he is not malicious.
  • My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.
  • A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."

 
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Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #185 on: April 09, 2013, 07:34:23 AM »
Einstein is wrong, and comes across as some slightly hippy dippy tosspot- judging by those quotes.
 
  I don’t know how anyone can look at the world we live in and think that god is ‘not malicious’.
Animals in the wild are under constant stress to find food and not to be eaten, a veritable banquet of existences cruelly snuffed out as a necessary means to sustain another life-but that’s the world he created.
Human evil and cruelty are ultimately traits of man specifically chosen by god.
We are not the originators of ourselves, and therefore of our acts, all the evil we do is preordained
and is the unfolding of a plan put in place by the almighty-that plan is imbued with cruelty-he is malicious.
This is assuming you’re a believer-Gods cruelty is impossible to reconcile with monotheism. 
   
For many, at least historically, the idea of hell was a reality, not some contemporary idea of the absence of god’s love. We’re talking about burning for all eternity for sins which are themselves preordained since before the creation of the universe. To create creatures for the purpose of everlasting suffering is specifically ‘malicious’. Of course Einstein takes an almost new age approach to god, so he’s not gonna get hung up on any kind of religious doctrine about what is acceptable or unacceptable regarding deities. The problem with this modern approach is anyone can say almost anything, there are no doctrines, just vague notions of doing ‘good’, and god as something none specific but analogous to human consciousness. It’s a privatised individualistic notion of transcendence that is so amorphous that it’s not worth spouting.
You’re effectively caught between the unbelievable and the not worth believing.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 07:47:09 AM by jesse james »
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Offline Swish

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #186 on: April 09, 2013, 10:01:52 AM »
Einstein is wrong, and comes across as some slightly hippy dippy tosspot- judging by those quotes.
 

Einstein was jewish till his teens.
After that he saw the inconsistencies of the religion and no  longer believed in that religion.
 
Quote
“I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind...

to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein (1929)”

What I think Einstein meant by not being malicious is that nature controls human destiny, the result is determined by law of the universe.
Human suffering is a by product of that law but not by intention.
 
In another way of saying this, the law of the universe is unchangeable and predetermined.
This means no amount of praying will do anything, even the praying has already been determined.
 
This is one of the reasons Einstein could not accept quantum mechanics which is not deterministic, the result would be determined by chance(statistics).
A famous quote by Einstein: "God does not play dice".
 
 
 
 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 10:03:25 AM by swish »

Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #187 on: April 09, 2013, 11:22:47 AM »
Einstein is wrong, and comes across as some slightly hippy dippy tosspot- judging by those quotes.
 

Einstein was jewish till his teens.
After that he saw the inconsistencies of the religion and no  longer believed in that religion.
 
Quote
“I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind...

to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein (1929)”

What I think Einstein meant by not being malicious is that nature controls human destiny, the result is determined by law of the universe.
Human suffering is a by product of that law but not by intention.
 
In another way of saying this, the law of the universe is unchangeable and predetermined.
This means no amount of praying will do anything, even the praying has already been determined.
 
This is one of the reasons Einstein could not accept quantum mechanics which is not deterministic, the result would be determined by chance(statistics).
A famous quote by Einstein: "God does not play dice".

right, but im not letting god off the hook that easily. If an omnipotent, omniscient deity created those laws,  they would know exactly what  and how those laws would play out, from the start. If i plant a bomb in a building with a timer device for one week, the fact that i leave the scene of the device and i don‘t intervene to stop that bomb going off doesn’t absolve me of my action, i know what devastation will be caused. Am i more responsible for my actions than god? by lighting the blue touch paper at the beginning of the universe, god know‘s how the rocket will explode and the consequences of that explosion. 
It strikes me as something of a red herring to posit a deterministic universe, one in which god is none interventionist,
but who isn't’ malicious, but i do take your point about what Einstein was getting at.

Slight change of tac, but interestingly many physicists eg David Deutsch reconcile quantum mechanic's with determinism. 
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Offline huntingyou

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #188 on: April 09, 2013, 07:45:07 PM »
JJ


what's your take on current establishment explanation of men's evolution which place the homo sapiens sapiens in around 100,000 BC?


 what about the highly contradictory evidence that debunks some of the "intermediary" species during our evolution through fossils records and understanding of circumstances during many of the establishment so called "discoveries'?


Are you familiar with Cremo's work?

Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #189 on: April 10, 2013, 05:05:01 PM »
JJ


what's your take on current establishment explanation of men's evolution which place the homo sapiens sapiens in around 100,000 BC?


 what about the highly contradictory evidence that debunks some of the "intermediary" species during our evolution through fossils records and understanding of circumstances during many of the establishment so called "discoveries'?


Are you familiar with Cremo's work?

Ok, well i can't be authoritative about Cremo's stuff, as i've only limited knowledge of it, based on one book,  but what i think is that Cremo’s credo falls short genuine science because he tends to gravitate towards complex contentious claims rather than building those claims upon simpler hypothosis. It’s apparoach ‘Forbidden Archaeology’ also uses many outdated sources, which for someone claiming a work is pretty unacceptable.
  I think one of it’s central thesis is an attempt to charaturise the scentific ‘esablishment’ as in some way conspiritorial, it’s an approach shared by creationism too, and i guess it's this latter idea that your trying to shift the debate towards.
  That’s not to say i’m against the slaughtering of bloated, theoretical, sacred cows, but the de-bunking of such has to be
rigerous in an age of scepticism that sometimes borders cynicism.

Evolution isn’t necessarily to be viewed as some far flung accademic understanding of the world, on the contrary,
hybridized organisms form the basis of our everyday existance-foods such as wheat, tomatoes etc are specifically selected
to be useful to us, and that selection process is easily observed, just as the owners of dogs select preferences in order to
create a new breed-you can see that biological process at work, but instead of being selected for suitability to a specific environment, instead it’s human agancy which brings about the change.

As religion has been painted into a corner by modernity, creationism has tried to kick against that modernity by undermining it, rather than seeing-as catholicism for example did with Darwins revolution, scripture as alagorical (the catholic church was actually laid back about it’s conclusion). The debate regarding creationism and evolution is over, it was over by the late 19th century.
  It’s a difficult dance that religion now has to do, it either refutes modernity and scientific rationalism, or allows scripture and belief to be seen as flexible, if it chooses the latter it can then bend with secular evidence. Either way it has problems, but the obvious problem with literalism (and it never is literal, but as a shorthand the idea is useful) is that you’re endlessly fighting battles that you simply can’t win. 
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Offline huntingyou

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #190 on: April 10, 2013, 06:45:11 PM »

Ok, well i can't be authoritative about Cremo's stuff, as i've only limited knowledge of it, based on one book,  but what i think is that Cremo’s credo falls short genuine science because he tends to gravitate towards complex contentious claims rather than building those claims upon simpler hypothosis. It’s apparoach ‘Forbidden Archaeology’ also uses many outdated sources, which for someone claiming a work is pretty unacceptable.
  I think one of it’s central thesis is an attempt to charaturise the scentific ‘esablishment’ as in some way conspiritorial, it’s an approach shared by creationism too, and i guess it's this latter idea that your trying to shift the debate towards.
  That’s not to say i’m against the slaughtering of bloated, theoretical, sacred cows, but the de-bunking of such has to be
rigerous in an age of scepticism that sometimes borders cynicism.

Evolution isn’t necessarily to be viewed as some far flung accademic understanding of the world, on the contrary,
hybridized organisms form the basis of our everyday existance-foods such as wheat, tomatoes etc are specifically selected
to be useful to us, and that selection process is easily observed, just as the owners of dogs select preferences in order to
create a new breed-you can see that biological process at work, but instead of being selected for suitability to a specific environment, instead it’s human agancy which brings about the change.

As religion has been painted into a corner by modernity, creationism has tried to kick against that modernity by undermining it, rather than seeing-as catholicism for example did with Darwins revolution, scripture as alagorical (the catholic church was actually laid back about it’s conclusion). The debate regarding creationism and evolution is over, it was over by the late 19th century.
  It’s a difficult dance that religion now has to do, it either refutes modernity and scientific rationalism, or allows scripture and belief to be seen as flexible, if it chooses the latter it can then bend with secular evidence. Either way it has problems, but the obvious problem with literalism (and it never is literal, but as a shorthand the idea is useful) is that you’re endlessly fighting battles that you simply can’t win.

Not trying to shift the debate since we share similar opinions and observations when it comes to religion and overall understanding of today's ruthless elites struggle to advance their control. Last time we spoke about this was two years ago so maybe you don't remember.

The reason I asked you this question is because I'm genuinely interested on what what you have to say regarding establishment's theory on the beginning of the human race.

It's obvious at this point in time, that creationism as presented by organized religions fails at so many levels that's not even worth our time discussing. What grasp my attention is the search for explanation to many mysteries found in our distant past....especially, the early civilizations we have account of.

Going back to evolution, the model painted by scientists today is severely lacking as well. The link they try to accommodate from apes to the modern man doesn't stand the test of observation based on archaeological findings from all over the world and biological understanding of evolutionary anatomy. Even the great migration patterns are being revised as we speak thanks to DNA and mtDNA findings in different archaeological sites in North and South America for example.

So, modern scientists are now comfortable with admitting modern man presence 100,000 BC............the problem is some of the evidence points toward much earlier than that; think millions of years.

 
So how all this connect? Well, it seems to me the little recollection we have of early civilizations (those the catholic church didn't burn nor the secret societies has confiscated for themselves) gives us glimpse into the "god" question and the true nature of man. Their monolithic ruins that have survived through time and the ones we recently discover under bodies of water; certainly indicates knowledge and even technology that has been lost through millenniums.   

Just curious where you stand. You kind of dismissed conspiracies talk presented by cremo on his book hidden history. I mean, the guys has holes in his presentation sure; like you said earlier....don't throw the bath water with the baby in it. If there is really a global elite behind the scenes manipulating economies, policies and cultural movements; certainly their tentacles would extend into academia as well. Knowledge is power for those people...certainly any knowledge pertaining to our distant past would be against their interest to be reveal. I know christianity would agree  :innocent:        how many books does the Vatican hold in it's library? I would give anything to open those vaults...........


 
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 06:47:46 PM by huntingyou »

Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #191 on: April 11, 2013, 08:23:15 AM »
I am going to post a few more quotes from Einstein. His quotes are so eloquent and self-explanatory that I don’t believe they require any further explanation. I am glad we have him to look up to especially in time of need and not some intelligent fools whose only ability is to make things bigger, more complex and more violent – not to mention, create more confusion with their limited knowledge. Having said that, I’ve deliberately chosen these quotes to make my point. The second and the last quotes are very to the point as far as this discussion goes.   
 
- Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.

- We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.

- God did not create evil. Just as darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of God.

- Creativity is intelligence having fun.

- Time is an illusion.

- When the solution is simple, God is answering.

- The only real valuable thing is intuition.

- I love Humanity but I hate humans.

- A true genius admits that he/she knows nothing.

- I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations.
 
 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 08:27:46 AM by Emma »
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Offline Swish

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #192 on: April 15, 2013, 06:15:57 PM »
I am going to post a few more quotes from Einstein. His quotes are so eloquent and self-explanatory that I don’t believe they require any further explanation. I am glad we have him to look up to especially in time of need and not some intelligent fools whose only ability is to make things bigger, more complex and more violent – not to mention, create more confusion with their limited knowledge. Having said that, I’ve deliberately chosen these quotes to make my point. The second and the last quotes are very to the point as far as this discussion goes.   
 
- Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.

- We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.

- God did not create evil. Just as darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of God.

- Creativity is intelligence having fun.

- Time is an illusion.

- When the solution is simple, God is answering.

- The only real valuable thing is intuition.

- I love Humanity but I hate humans.

- A true genius admits that he/she knows nothing.

- I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations.
 
 

Emma, don't worry about god or if he's this or if he's that.
 
Knowing who god is won't change anything, nothing to be proved and nothing can be proved I doubt.
 
Do something constructive.  :smartie:

Offline themoneymaker99

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #193 on: May 06, 2013, 04:21:06 PM »
Best reason?
Because I breathe, that's why God exists!
It's not about religions or beliefs, it's just about that we all people are connected energies made by a Creator, whom we like to name God.
So Yes I believe in something that created us all, in this perfect alignment of the universe.
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Offline Start da Game

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #194 on: May 07, 2013, 12:34:25 PM »
einstein is overrated, emma.......a no. of myths created by west(particularly about india and hinduism) are being busted one by one.......time to wake up and embrace your roots, emma........forget einstein, forget others......just post something which came out of your region........
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

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Offline Start da Game

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #195 on: May 07, 2013, 12:35:39 PM »
Best reason?
Because I breathe, that's why God exists!
It's not about religions or beliefs, it's just about that we all people are connected energies made by a Creator, whom we like to name God.
So Yes I believe in something that created us all, in this perfect alignment of the universe.

well said......
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #196 on: May 08, 2013, 05:02:18 PM »
einstein is overrated, emma.......a no. of myths created by west(particularly about india and hinduism) are being busted one by one.......time to wake up and embrace your roots, emma........forget einstein, forget others......just post something which came out of your region........

it's an interesting point, one i've heard Richard Dawkins make a few times, that our view of god-as revealed by religion, is a social construct, and that our geographical and historical location is crucial in determining our viewpoint. But then couldn't one apply that logic to secularism?

mmm, perhaps Einstein is overrated a little, but still one of, if not the greatest physicists......acceptable overrated, the quotes by Emma are derivative anyway, not to get the one by Socrates is embarrassing, the unexamined life and all that.
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Offline foaquin

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #197 on: May 14, 2013, 10:19:26 PM »
Of course I believe in God..  how can you explain why the earth is so beautiful.. miracles,  life,,,, etc etc etc... Theory of evolution  ..I don't think so.

Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #198 on: May 15, 2013, 07:26:17 AM »
Of course I believe in God..  how can you explain why the earth is so beautiful.. miracles,  life,,,, etc etc etc... Theory of evolution  ..I don't think so.

It doesn’t logically follow from beauty, that there is a deity, it simply means there is beauty.
And that the earth is beautiful is quite contentious, i’ld agree aspects of it are, but much is quite ugly, cruel, and painful too,
i don’t need to go into detail.
Do you see the theory of evolution as being antithetical to the existence of god, if so why?
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Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #199 on: May 15, 2013, 08:30:51 PM »
i just have far toomany reasons to belive in something .... believe in god. i can't get mad at anyone because ifeel i know it's myself i am getting amd at and that doesn't make any sense to me. anyway in time you will find out..in you too, jesse. you will and maybe ill be there for you.
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