Author Topic: do you believe in God?  (Read 10136 times)

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Offline jesse james

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do you believe in God?
« on: October 02, 2011, 05:39:07 PM »
If so, why? what's the best reason you have.
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Offline Alex

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2011, 06:05:19 PM »
I believe in Emma. She is my Goddess  :)~. Ok, sorry I didn't want to derail your thread.

Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2011, 06:34:17 PM »
If so, why? what's the best reason you have.

How about those who don't believe in God? What would be their best reason? That should be discussed as well. If we believe in God and if we have to justify our reasons for it then they should be able to do the same. And it can't be reasons like, oh,  I don't believe in God because I can't see it. There are a lot of things we can't see yet they exist.

More importantly, where do you stand in all this? Do you believe in God?
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Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2011, 06:40:15 PM »
I believe in Emma. She is my Goddess  :)~. Ok, sorry I didn't want to derail your thread.

When Damien found out who he was, it hit him hard. It took him sometime to understand the concept of it and cope with something he wasn't willing to accept at first. But when he did, he never once looked back.
You are everything I am not.

Offline Alex

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2011, 09:07:37 PM »
I believe in Emma. She is my Goddess  :)~. Ok, sorry I didn't want to derail your thread.

When Damien found out who he was, it hit him hard. It took him sometime to understand the concept of it and cope with something he wasn't willing to accept at first. But when he did, he never once looked back.
so you did read the book. Did you like it? We need to open a book thread here. When I was younger I had a couple of really good friends who don't live in Calgary any more. We would read same books and than meet once a week to discuss our impressions etc. I miss that time. Unfortunately they all moved away.

By the way, I'm serious now, I love that book so much because when I read it for the first time Demian reminded me of myself in a way. It opened my eyes. The whole story about two different worlds. It's just amazing.

Ok, I feel bad now. We've managed to screw up another thread  :).


Offline Start da Game

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2011, 09:11:04 AM »
i really still don't know whether to believe or not but i have a feeling that there is definitely some supreme power somewhere controlling us all.......if not then answer these questions.......

how did matter actually arise out of absolute nothing? the first look of this universe some infinity years ago must definitely have been "empty spaces of vacuum".......

today we have a house, how? because we built it......how? with raw material and sand.......where did all that ultimately come from? earth.......where did earth come from? solar system......where did solar system come from? galaxy......galaxy? milky way.......milky way? universe.......the big question is where did universe come from?

who created matter? from where? how did solar systems evolve? how did galaxies evolve? everything is supposed to be empty in this universe if there did not exist something supernatural.......what exactly is it? who is behind all of it?

nobody will ever find.......if there is anything impossible in this world, it is to find an answer to this question........there will come a time when people will even travel to jupiter but nobody will ever know who's behind all this.......

 

 
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline foaquin

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2011, 09:17:03 AM »
I definetively do.   I donīt want my soul to burn forever in HELL!!.

Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2011, 10:49:43 AM »
I believe in Emma. She is my Goddess  :)~. Ok, sorry I didn't want to derail your thread.

When Damien found out who he was, it hit him hard. It took him sometime to understand the concept of it and cope with something he wasn't willing to accept at first. But when he did, he never once looked back.
so you did read the book. Did you like it? We need to open a book thread here. When I was younger I had a couple of really good friends who don't live in Calgary any more. We would read same books and than meet once a week to discuss our impressions etc. I miss that time. Unfortunately they all moved away.

By the way, I'm serious now, I love that book so much because when I read it for the first time Demian reminded me of myself in a way. It opened my eyes. The whole story about two different worlds. It's just amazing.

Ok, I feel bad now. We've managed to screw up another thread  :).

I wasn't talking about the book Demian though but Damien in The Omen. Notice the difference, you doofus.  :rofl_2:  :)~

Oh, now I feel evil and rightfully so.
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Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2011, 10:52:03 AM »
I definetively do.   I donīt want my soul to burn forever in HELL!!.

You will be in Hell regardless or at least in purgatory for a while. Just believing isn't enough.   :)~
You are everything I am not.

Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2011, 10:58:17 AM »
i really still don't know whether to believe or not but i have a feeling that there is definitely some supreme power somewhere controlling us all.......if not then answer these questions.......

how did matter actually arise out of absolute nothing? the first look of this universe some infinity years ago must definitely have been "empty spaces of vacuum".......

today we have a house, how? because we built it......how? with raw material and sand.......where did all that ultimately come from? earth.......where did earth come from? solar system......where did solar system come from? galaxy......galaxy? milky way.......milky way? universe.......the big question is where did universe come from?

who created matter? from where? how did solar systems evolve? how did galaxies evolve? everything is supposed to be empty in this universe if there did not exist something supernatural.......what exactly is it? who is behind all of it?

nobody will ever find.......if there is anything impossible in this world, it is to find an answer to this question........there will come a time when people will even travel to jupiter but nobody will ever know who's behind all this.......
 

But doesn't this beg the question - where did the Creator itself come from? Or who created the Creator? If something came from nothing then what was nothing that created this enormous something? Ultimately there's no space if there are no objects in it. That's how you define space.
You are everything I am not.

Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2011, 10:59:47 AM »
If so, why? what's the best reason you have.

We believe in YOU jesse! 
You are everything I am not.

Offline Start da Game

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2011, 11:42:28 AM »
i really still don't know whether to believe or not but i have a feeling that there is definitely some supreme power somewhere controlling us all.......if not then answer these questions.......

how did matter actually arise out of absolute nothing? the first look of this universe some infinity years ago must definitely have been "empty spaces of vacuum".......

today we have a house, how? because we built it......how? with raw material and sand.......where did all that ultimately come from? earth.......where did earth come from? solar system......where did solar system come from? galaxy......galaxy? milky way.......milky way? universe.......the big question is where did universe come from?

who created matter? from where? how did solar systems evolve? how did galaxies evolve? everything is supposed to be empty in this universe if there did not exist something supernatural.......what exactly is it? who is behind all of it?

nobody will ever find.......if there is anything impossible in this world, it is to find an answer to this question........there will come a time when people will even travel to jupiter but nobody will ever know who's behind all this.......
 

But doesn't this beg the question - where did the Creator itself come from? Or who created the Creator? If something came from nothing then what was nothing that created this enormous something? Ultimately there's no space if there are no objects in it. That's how you define space.

which existed first? space or objects? definitely space........then came objects........which existed first? house or an empty plot on which it was constructed? empty plot.......

who created the creator? or did it all happen by itself? how did something arise out of absolute nothing? all that we will never know.......
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline Alex

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2011, 02:54:32 PM »
We, people are too small and stupid to understand the universe thing. When I was a kid I read so many books about it. I was so curious. You can find so many different theories.

Offline euroka1

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2011, 05:10:45 PM »
Space has its own properties exclusive of matter. What is that they say  - "Watch the gap".

I've just finished Sam Harris's book "The Moral Landscape - How Science can determine Human Values". The text to his whole sermon is "human well-being entirely depends on events in the world and on states of the human brain". He's a neuroscientist and the rest of the book goes on to elaborate how our knowledge of those states of the brain is increasing rapidly with current research. It's a good read.

P.S. He has no room for God but is a lot milder than Richard Dawkins  :scared: .

Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2011, 06:04:41 PM »
i think that's a good question, so first i'll say i don't believe in God, and i suspect that goes for everyone in at least one sense.
What i mean by that is virtually everyone disbelieves in some gods, so very few of us now believe in Roman or Greek gods, someone who is Jewish or Muslim does not believe Christ is incarnate and so on. I think there's an estimate that there have been 4,000 gods and goddesses in human history and you and i don't believe in most or all of them because there simply isn't a coherent or compelling reason for us to do so.
While i'm on about the ancient Greeks, it's worth pointing out that the Abrahamic religions have a this idea of an all loving god, that allows children to be born with bone cancer and all sorts of painful diseases etc, the ancients were at least closer to the mark with the capriciousness of their deities and they had no illusions about the loving nature of the all powerful.
  Of course there are things we can't see that we believe to be true, but we know by experience-we feel love and hate, but these things can never shown, they are felt at a profoundly subjective level, that seems like a perfectly good basis for belief.

If so, why? what's the best reason you have.

How about those who don't believe in God? What would be their best reason? That should be discussed as well. If we believe in God and if we have to justify our reasons for it then they should be able to do the same. And it can't be reasons like, oh,  I don't believe in God because I can't see it. There are a lot of things we can't see yet they exist.

More importantly, where do you stand in all this? Do you believe in God?
I am a lighthouse worn by the weather and the waves
And though I'm empty I still warn the sailors on their way

Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2011, 06:17:01 PM »
well you've sort of answered your own question in a way, maybe well never know.
Emma's kind of answered what's known as the 'cosmological argument' for you too, if we simply insert the word 'god' to explain the existence of everything we simply create another mystery which is as imponderable as the one we had to start with, and have no evidence for the existence of it either.

i really still don't know whether to believe or not but i have a feeling that there is definitely some supreme power somewhere controlling us all.......if not then answer these questions.......

how did matter actually arise out of absolute nothing? the first look of this universe some infinity years ago must definitely have been "empty spaces of vacuum".......

today we have a house, how? because we built it......how? with raw material and sand.......where did all that ultimately come from? earth.......where did earth come from? solar system......where did solar system come from? galaxy......galaxy? milky way.......milky way? universe.......the big question is where did universe come from?

who created matter? from where? how did solar systems evolve? how did galaxies evolve? everything is supposed to be empty in this universe if there did not exist something supernatural.......what exactly is it? who is behind all of it?

nobody will ever find.......if there is anything impossible in this world, it is to find an answer to this question........there will come a time when people will even travel to jupiter but nobody will ever know who's behind all this.......
 

But doesn't this beg the question - where did the Creator itself come from? Or who created the Creator? If something came from nothing then what was nothing that created this enormous something? Ultimately there's no space if there are no objects in it. That's how you define space.

which existed first? space or objects? definitely space........then came objects........which existed first? house or an empty plot on which it was constructed? empty plot.......

who created the creator? or did it all happen by itself? how did something arise out of absolute nothing? all that we will never know.......
I am a lighthouse worn by the weather and the waves
And though I'm empty I still warn the sailors on their way

Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2011, 06:30:09 PM »
This really, really interests me.
Iv'e been fascinated by what Raymond Tallis calls neuromythology- the radical scientism that claims to offer an explanation for everything based on a supermaterialistic conception of reality, and ironically actually gives virtually no rational explanations,  especially for the most profound phenomenon of all that of human consciousness. For example we believe and have believed for centuries in the correlates of consciousness and the brain and these are becoming ever more refined, but consciousness itself itself is outside of the scientific paradigm and it's only by a kind of super western reductionism that consciousness is
de facto made obsolete.
  David Hume said you can't get an 'ought from an is' in other words you can't get morality on the basis of what is, but what ought to be. So while i havn't read the Harris book i'ld be fascinated by any insights you might have.

Space has its own properties exclusive of matter. What is that they say  - "Watch the gap".

I've just finished Sam Harris's book "The Moral Landscape - How Science can determine Human Values". The text to his whole sermon is "human well-being entirely depends on events in the world and on states of the human brain". He's a neuroscientist and the rest of the book goes on to elaborate how our knowledge of those states of the brain is increasing rapidly with current research. It's a good read.

P.S. He has no room for God but is a lot milder than Richard Dawkins  :scared: .
I am a lighthouse worn by the weather and the waves
And though I'm empty I still warn the sailors on their way

Online Babblelot

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2011, 03:56:56 PM »
I definetively do.   I donīt want my soul to burn forever in HELL!!.

I've got a convenient out. I don't believe in hell.
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Offline pawan89

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2011, 10:52:21 AM »
I definetively do.   I donīt want my soul to burn forever in HELL!!.

I've got a convenient out. I don't believe in hell.

 :rofl_2:




Offline pawan89

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2011, 11:04:17 AM »
Good topic. My feeling is we believe in somethings as a defense mechanism because we can't accept a void. Doesn't make what we believe any less real or unreal. For example, among those who believe in the "God Delusion", some believe strongly in hell and heaven - aka life goes on in this perfect fairy land or that we are all sinners in the hand of an angry god who's holding us over a pit of fire. Others yet believe that we are reincarnated according to our actions and the resiude on our soul. Why do people believe these different things? I feel they believe the best possible "story" that will allow them to be satisfied with an answer to all the un-answerables and let them be in the present - maybe even HELP them in the present "I'll do good things because I want to go to heaven". And doing good things is good and people are happy and world's a better place, so why NOT believe in that? Another difference that's been touched upon here, some believe in a all merciful god who does no wrong and that all evil comes from human beings, and yet the same folks claim that everything is god's doing and we are being controlled by god. How does that explain all the bad things in the world? The children being born with bone cancer? Surely no god who's not a sick freak would do something like that, would they? Why would god send Tsunamis and earthquakes to hurt innocent people, just for fun? These are unanswerable questions. So we believe in god - or even the lack of god - to explain these things to satisfy ourselves.

I am sure if someone had come up with another kind of story in the beginning of time to convince and satisfy the minds of humans, that would have been the dominant view on all the un-answerables. We only believe in god because we can't just ignore the un-answerable questions, because we seek to understand more and when we try to understand more and we can't understand, we need some explanation, some hypothesis, of what the solution is. There's people who are perfectly happy who do not believe in god and there's people who are perfectly happy who believe in god. And just so, there's people who are perfectly miserable or evil in both categories. So it begs the question, does it MATTER if one believes in god? If it doesn't then clearly either this god doesn't care, or, more likely, we are making this whole thing up and it does not matter one bit and we do it for the same reasons we do somethings like.. like skydiving or LSD.