Author Topic: do you believe in God?  (Read 14360 times)

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Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #140 on: December 08, 2011, 01:35:52 PM »
You can delete at least one of the posts where you facked up big time again, no? what can be done to the man who doesn't know how to quote, eh?
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Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #141 on: December 08, 2011, 02:11:00 PM »
This week, I am crazy busy. Even this morning I was in back to back meetings and the meeting from 11 to 12noon ran longer. Didnít even have the time to have a proper lunch. When work gets this hectic I canít concentrate let alone think about anything else. After going home, I just want to engage myself into either some mindless fun with Alex, FFF etc. or just watch something funny like a marathon of Two & a Half Men or Will & Grace.
 
Anyway, am not sure why we are going to back to religion time and again. I am far more interested in God. God has always existed; that is, if you believe in it. Religion came much later when God decided to create human beings. Sure through religion we came to know about God but we also know that God has always existed. So I often get this discussion on religion. For what I know and can tell, it is only for people on this planet basically to let them know that thereís such a thing as God and that, we are to believe in it, worship it even. Religion is merely to give people a proper guidelines or restrictions if you will as to how we should be living our lives and under what sort of circumstances. Itís nothing more than that. When you ask a question like, ďdo you believe in God?Ē the question that comes to my mind next is, ďif so, then what do you think it is?Ē rather than ďwhy do you believe in it?Ē etc. I can give you why but if you are a skeptic, whoís not open to possibilities, then it will all fall into deaf ears and the very discussion will stand moot. Religion is dull and boring and itís for people who are unable to think outside the box. I donít need religion to tell me that God exists. I would have known. If you know what God is and what itís all about, then you donít need religion to explain anything. I much rather explore the existence of God and for that, I am ready to study religion too, but I am sure it will only confuse me further, because of the hundreds of religions that exist with very different belief systems in each case and because of the way it evolved over the years. Iíd much rather have a fresh and new approach in my discovery of God than to rely on something that got twisted and taken out of context to the point that they donít make sense anymore - if you get my drift.
 
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Offline wilsonboy

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #142 on: January 02, 2012, 02:29:27 PM »
Sincere Question for Emma:


You say that something was "twisted and taken out of context" as far as your understanding of God, but you don't follow any religious doctrine at all. You want to "explore the existence of God, but don't really have a foundation or starting point. So I guess my question is, how can something (i.e. religion) take the idea of God out of context, when according to what you said, there is no context at all for it to be take out of? Also, from what do you base your understanding of God on?
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Offline wilsonboy

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #143 on: January 02, 2012, 02:44:09 PM »
Quote from: FedFanForever
If God is so kind and merciful why has he allowed murder & genocide to occur since humans began?


I can answer that.
Kindness and Mercy are only two of the attributes of God. God is also just (as in Justice oriented). There would be no need for him to be Just, without the concept of free will. We are his creations but we are not meant to be mindless robots with no free will. If we were, the question would be asked "If God was so kind and merciful, why doesn't he allow us to have free will".
Another part of the answer is this, there is evil in the world because of sin. There is also good in the world because of love. How do you know something is hot? Because you know what cold is, and you can compare the two. We wouldn't know what good was without the presence of evil. It's easy to say "God should be making everything happy and awesome for everyone all day every day"--which is fair. But as long as there is sin the world, these things will never go away. What we can do in the mean time though is lean on God as our source of love. The last thing Jesus asked of us before leaving was to share the gospel and Word of God to everyone. So to true believers of the God of Israel (Jesus) have a mission to share the message and love of God to others to save the world one person at a time. But with free will, some accept it and others reject it.
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Online Babblelot

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #144 on: January 02, 2012, 05:32:30 PM »
Emma committed suicide.  It was ugly and messy. Needless to say, she won't be back
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Offline wilsonboy

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #145 on: January 02, 2012, 08:57:03 PM »
 :confused1:
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Offline FedFanForever

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #146 on: January 04, 2012, 10:58:48 PM »
Emma committed suicide.  It was ugly and messy. Needless to say, she won't be back

You are a dick.
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Offline Imsda

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #147 on: March 25, 2012, 03:03:26 PM »
I do.

Offline alk11

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #148 on: March 26, 2012, 06:38:11 PM »
No !

there is no god    :gleam: :gleam: :gleam:

Offline foaquin

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #149 on: March 21, 2013, 10:20:01 PM »
No !

there is no god    :gleam: :gleam: :gleam:


Poor  soul.. 
fear the lake of fire

Offline Litotes

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #150 on: March 22, 2013, 03:23:03 AM »
No !

there is no god    :gleam: :gleam: :gleam:


Poor  soul.. 
fear the lake of fire

You realize, of course, hell is only an option for those who believe in it. I don't. Most probably alk11 neither. So we're entirely safe, no reason to worry on our behalf.

The concept of a divine being is to illogical to countenance imo. Especially one that in any way interferes in daily life. I know religion is supposed to be a good thing for those capable of believing, but in the same way placebo won't work if you know it's placebo, religion won't work for me.

Offline foaquin

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #151 on: March 22, 2013, 02:21:46 PM »
No !

there is no god    :gleam: :gleam: :gleam:


Poor  soul.. 
fear the lake of fire

You realize, of course, hell is only an option for those who believe in it. I don't. Most probably alk11 neither. So we're entirely safe, no reason to worry on our behalf.

The concept of a divine being is to illogical to countenance imo. Especially one that in any way interferes in daily life. I know religion is supposed to be a good thing for those capable of believing, but in the same way placebo won't work if you know it's placebo, religion won't work for me.

I wish there was no hell,  but what would be the punishment for those who have done the most horrendous crimes and have never been caught, there has to be justice, if you managed to get away with your sins in this life, in the next stage (the after life) for sure there wont be a escape for you, I think we always are being observed by God, so I choose to live a decent life so at the end of the road I will get my prize (heaven). Imagine how the world would be if we all knew that after this life there was nothing else,......I think there would be more violence and chaos, death and injustice,  so  there must be an Omnipotent entity to restore balance in the world.

Offline Litotes

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #152 on: March 22, 2013, 04:38:57 PM »
No !

there is no god    :gleam: :gleam: :gleam:


Poor  soul.. 
fear the lake of fire

You realize, of course, hell is only an option for those who believe in it. I don't. Most probably alk11 neither. So we're entirely safe, no reason to worry on our behalf.

The concept of a divine being is to illogical to countenance imo. Especially one that in any way interferes in daily life. I know religion is supposed to be a good thing for those capable of believing, but in the same way placebo won't work if you know it's placebo, religion won't work for me.

I wish there was no hell,  but what would be the punishment for those who have done the most horrendous crimes and have never been caught, there has to be justice, if you managed to get away with your sins in this life, in the next stage (the after life) for sure there wont be a escape for you, I think we always are being observed by God, so I choose to live a decent life so at the end of the road I will get my prize (heaven). Imagine how the world would be if we all knew that after this life there was nothing else,......I think there would be more violence and chaos, death and injustice,  so  there must be an Omnipotent entity to restore balance in the world.

Well, there is no overrepresentation of atheists in jail. Religions people are just as likely as anyone else to commit murder, sexually abuse children or do any other horrendous crime. Believing in a god is no prerequisite to living a virtous life. I've heard the argument of having religion to scare people into behaving before, but it does not appear to be working. I guess those behaving good does so with or without religion, same as for those behaving bad. It comes down to other things - ethics and self-respect.

Offline Orange Wombat

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #153 on: March 22, 2013, 06:29:10 PM »
I don't believe in the so called "God", but I do believe in some higher power. I have yet to rationalize my beliefs though with scientific principle.

Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #154 on: March 30, 2013, 07:01:58 AM »
No !

there is no god    :gleam: :gleam: :gleam:


Poor  soul.. 
fear the lake of fire

You realize, of course, hell is only an option for those who believe in it. I don't. Most probably alk11 neither. So we're entirely safe, no reason to worry on our behalf.

The concept of a divine being is to illogical to countenance imo. Especially one that in any way interferes in daily life. I know religion is supposed to be a good thing for those capable of believing, but in the same way placebo won't work if you know it's placebo, religion won't work for me.

I wish there was no hell,  but what would be the punishment for those who have done the most horrendous crimes and have never been caught, there has to be justice, if you managed to get away with your sins in this life, in the next stage (the after life) for sure there wont be a escape for you, I think we always are being observed by God, so I choose to live a decent life so at the end of the road I will get my prize (heaven). Imagine how the world would be if we all knew that after this life there was nothing else,......I think there would be more violence and chaos, death and injustice,  so  there must be an Omnipotent entity to restore balance in the world.

What you're outlining is one of the great historical justifications for the existence of god, as Dostoevsky is reputed to have said 'if god does not exist, anything is permitted'.
But your logic is flawed.
The 'omnipotent entity' of which you speak has in fact created and allowed and indeed maintaines an unlawful world. The very fact of human evil testifies that fact, after all, evil must be one of gods creations, chaos must be the creation of god-if you believe god is omnipotent.
Religions have grappled with, and failed to quell the obvious truth that any evil or malign intent in the hearts of men, must ultimately originate with god.
The notion of original sin-which is essentially a fourth century christian construct, was an attempt to deflect the blame of the burden of evil to humans themselves, and the idea of Satan as instrumental in this grew too. But this only pushes back the gods responsibility one stage, after all God created Satan or man's nature knowing that we would fall.
As Martin Luther once said 'here i stand i cannot do otherwise', the deterministic nature of human existence is both per-ordained and maintained by a god who's actions specifically allow and indeed necessitate evil. How can one be punished by a deity for acts one will inevitably do and were known to be inevitable to that deity before the creation of the world?
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Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #155 on: March 30, 2013, 07:08:16 AM »
I don't believe in the so called "God", but I do believe in some higher power. I have yet to rationalize my beliefs though with scientific principle.

Why would such beliefs require scientific rationalization?
Wittgenstein famously talked about language games as a kind of shorthand for the way in which the meaning of words is dependent on their context. The language of god talk and that of science are fundamentally different in the same way that a poetic description of the blossom of a lilac tree and a scientific understanding of that same blossom would differ dramatically.
So for example, if i asked you why it would be wrong to arbitrarily go around cutting peoples throats, would you resort to scientific rationalism to moral discourse?
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Offline Swish

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #156 on: March 30, 2013, 07:55:18 PM »
Emma committed suicide.  It was ugly and messy. Needless to say, she won't be back

Poor thing........   :(

Offline Lugburz

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #157 on: March 31, 2013, 08:48:46 AM »
In a religious sense I don't believe in god. If I have to pick my personal faith or any definition of religion I'd probably say I'm agnostic.

I believe we are all made of star dust, so in a way I don't believe in divine intervention.

However I believe in basics of Christianity or religion in general. And that is be as good as you can be. Have morals and ethics.
What you do not wish for yourself, do not do to others. So if that is some inner god, I believe in it.

To me, God = Reason.

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Offline Orange Wombat

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #158 on: March 31, 2013, 09:15:44 AM »
I don't believe in the so called "God", but I do believe in some higher power. I have yet to rationalize my beliefs though with scientific principle.

Why would such beliefs require scientific rationalization?
Wittgenstein famously talked about language games as a kind of shorthand for the way in which the meaning of words is dependent on their context. The language of god talk and that of science are fundamentally different in the same way that a poetic description of the blossom of a lilac tree and a scientific understanding of that same blossom would differ dramatically.
So for example, if i asked you why it would be wrong to arbitrarily go around cutting peoples throats, would you resort to scientific rationalism to moral discourse?

Would you say that God causes a volcano to erupt every time someone dies, when there is no evidence to back it up?

Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #159 on: March 31, 2013, 03:29:32 PM »
I don't believe in the so called "God", but I do believe in some higher power. I have yet to rationalize my beliefs though with scientific principle.

Why would such beliefs require scientific rationalization?
Wittgenstein famously talked about language games as a kind of shorthand for the way in which the meaning of words is dependent on their context. The language of god talk and that of science are fundamentally different in the same way that a poetic description of the blossom of a lilac tree and a scientific understanding of that same blossom would differ dramatically.
So for example, if i asked you why it would be wrong to arbitrarily go around cutting peoples throats, would you resort to scientific rationalism to moral discourse?

Would you say that God causes a volcano to erupt every time someone dies, when there is no evidence to back it up?

No, but that's a straw man as far as religiosity is concerned.
faith isn't some teleologicaly based rational that makes empirical predictions about the actions of god in the same way we'd make assumptions about various causally related events that we observe in the world. In fact our observations about the world are themselves based on faith ie causality (remember Hume?).
Most of what humans believe isn't premised on scientific rationalism, and it's a kind of post enlightenment trap to assume that all  knowledge is, or must be understood in that way.
In fact our ideas of what human beings are have to be conceived of in entirely different ways.
If you take the most fundamental aspect of humans beings, it isn't some biological reductionism that makes us what we are, but he fact of our being conscious.
Despite sciences best efforts, it has absolutely nothing profound to say about human consciousness, other than refinements about the correlations between the brain and consciousness, and the idea that consciousness is seated in the brain is hardly new. It's only by being conscious that you know what consciousness is, and evolutionary theory doesn't even need it.
So while i don't believe in god, and more than willing to challenge the incoherence of religious belief, i don't see why science should be required for a belief at all.
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