Author Topic: do you believe in God?  (Read 11634 times)

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Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #200 on: May 16, 2013, 04:15:59 AM »
i just have far toomany reasons to belive in something .... believe in god. i can't get mad at anyone because ifeel i know it's myself i am getting amd at and that doesn't make any sense to me. anyway in time you will find out..in you too, jesse. you will and maybe ill be there for you.

What's your best reason?
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Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #201 on: May 22, 2013, 07:12:18 AM »
Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place." (Deuteronomy 12:2-3)


"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own-- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."
Einstein

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Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #202 on: May 25, 2013, 01:32:17 PM »
i just have far toomany reasons to belive in something .... believe in god. i can't get mad at anyone because ifeel i know it's myself i am getting amd at and that doesn't make any sense to me. anyway in time you will find out..in you too, jesse. you will and maybe ill be there for you.

What's your best reason?

I am not sure if I want to get into that discussion at all. I am not going to be here all that much so it doesn't really serve a solid purpose for a good discussion. Besides, I have no intention of convincing you or anyone - not that I feel I'll be able to convince anyone anyway.
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Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #203 on: May 25, 2013, 01:54:50 PM »
Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place." (Deuteronomy 12:2-3)


"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own-- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."
Einstein

Regarding Einstein's quote, he never really believed in a personal God; neither did he believe in a God who's vengeful, but that doesn't mean he didn't believe in something far superior and intellectual than us. His thoughts in his later stage of life reveals a lot of it. He thought the Universe was too magnificently and orderly designed to be a fluke or just a plain random act of 'nature'. Scientists have already done all sorts of experiments and yet to come up with any orderly design such as the Universe. Not even the tiniest fraction of it.  We ourselves see that we can't create anything on this planet without thinking about it first. A thought always has to exist before you can manifest anything that of material nature. Simply put, you have never gone or done anything without thinking about it first. So what comes first? You or your thoughts?

Also, the God you are talking about and slamming on, jesse, is the God of religion which is mostly manmade. You would, that is if you are really curious about your own being and wonder about the true nature of your reality, you'd seek it on your own. All the great ones have done it. You are an intelligent being who is not only aware of himself but can also question its own existence.  And you are gifted. So why not seek and see what you can find. Do you want things to be only conceptual or do you want to experience it as well? Do you like the idea of sex? Is it good enough just to know? or do you want to experience it as well? What good is it if it's not experienced as well?
You are everything I am not.

Offline FedFanForever

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #204 on: May 25, 2013, 02:10:23 PM »
I can't believe in a man-made God. However I do believe in the possibility of a super-being that has engineered all this. Not likely, and not particularly relevant. Even is such a being exists, he obviously set something in motion many billions of years ago and intends to just sit back and watch it unfold.
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Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #205 on: May 25, 2013, 02:53:07 PM »
I can't believe in a man-made God. However I do believe in the possibility of a super-being that has engineered all this. Not likely, and not particularly relevant. Even is such a being exists, he obviously set something in motion many billions of years ago and intends to just sit back and watch it unfold.

It never set anything billions of years ago - the big bang as you mean. That's our human understanding of time and space, and therefore, the condition we live in currently. In its mind, 'now' is the only time that exists. Basically, everything is happening in the present moment. In fact, if you travel at the same speed of light, time stands still. Many out of body experiencers will tell you about such a thing where time has no place. Or it simply doesn't exist. That too is a form of reality, albeit a very different one that we live in right now. Who is to say there should only be one form of reality? And just 't because you didn't experience it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all. One can't  afford to be so naive.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 02:58:59 PM by Emma »
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Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #206 on: May 25, 2013, 03:09:03 PM »
Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place." (Deuteronomy 12:2-3)


"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own-- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."
Einstein


Regarding Einstein's quote, he never really believed in a personal God; neither did he believe in a God who's vengeful, but that doesn't mean he didn't believe in something far superior and intellectual than us. His thoughts in his later stage of life reveals a lot of it. He thought the Universe was too magnificently and orderly designed to be a fluke or just a plain random act of 'nature'. Scientists have already done all sorts of experiments and yet to come up with any orderly design such as the Universe. Not even the tiniest fraction of it.  We ourselves see that we can't create anything on this planet without thinking about it first. A thought always has to exist before you can manifest anything that of material nature. Simply put, you have never gone or done anything without thinking about it first. So what comes first? You or your thoughts?

Also, the God you are talking about and slamming on, jesse, is the God of religion which is mostly manmade. You would, that is if you are really curious about your own being and wonder about the true nature of your reality, you'd seek it on your own. All the great ones have done it. You are an intelligent being who is not only aware of himself but can also question its own existence.  And you are gifted. So why not seek and see what you can find. Do you want things to be only conceptual or do you want to experience it as well? Do you like the idea of sex? Is it good enough just to know? or do you want to experience it as well? What good is it if it's not experienced as well?


well what you're talking about with regard to Einstein in the first paragraph is the Teleological argument, and i don't see why you need to refer to Einstein for this, it's one of the oldest arguments there is for the existence of god. There are quite a few arguments that easily deal with the design argument, the anthropic principle, for example. It doesn't work in it's own terms either, because it works by a mistaken analogy ie the watchmaker.
   
Which comes first 'you or your thoughts' is a distraction in terms of this discussion, it's not going anywhere.

As for my reference to god in relation to religion, of course the discourse will revolve around that, it's through religions that god is traditionally and overwhelmingly understood. After all, if god is privatized, a subjective, internalized  notion, it undermines the central doctrine that all religions have held sacred, that transcendence is achieved through revealed truths that are both social and ubiquitous.
  This solipsistic notion of god would cut every believer off from others because nothing meaningful could ever be said about god.
Here's Wittgenstein to explain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_language_argument
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Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #207 on: May 25, 2013, 03:13:25 PM »
I can't believe in a man-made God. However I do believe in the possibility of a super-being that has engineered all this. Not likely, and not particularly relevant. Even is such a being exists, he obviously set something in motion many billions of years ago and intends to just sit back and watch it unfold.

yeah, that sounds plausible, but even if it were so-how would we know it were so?
If revealed religions don't tell us anything how could a god who hasn't bothered to reveal himself be known?
In principle we'd never know the difference between a godless universe and a universe which god created then abandoned, they'd function exactly the same.
I am a lighthouse worn by the weather and the waves
And though I'm empty I still warn the sailors on their way

Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #208 on: May 25, 2013, 03:14:43 PM »
i just have far toomany reasons to belive in something .... believe in god. i can't get mad at anyone because ifeel i know it's myself i am getting amd at and that doesn't make any sense to me. anyway in time you will find out..in you too, jesse. you will and maybe ill be there for you.

What's your best reason?

I am not sure if I want to get into that discussion at all. I am not going to be here all that much so it doesn't really serve a solid purpose for a good discussion. Besides, I have no intention of convincing you or anyone - not that I feel I'll be able to convince anyone anyway.

that's a cop out.
I am a lighthouse worn by the weather and the waves
And though I'm empty I still warn the sailors on their way

Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #209 on: June 19, 2013, 06:51:35 PM »
If there's no God jesse, then why do you care so much?
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Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #210 on: June 21, 2013, 07:32:52 PM »
jesse, can we have a heart to heart talk? honest as in? what is the wrost thing about human being? i strongly feel it's trust. as shakespeare said once, love all, trust a few, do wrong to none. do u agree?
   
 
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Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #211 on: June 21, 2013, 08:54:05 PM »
i just have far toomany reasons to belive in something .... believe in god. i can't get mad at anyone because ifeel i know it's myself i am getting amd at and that doesn't make any sense to me. anyway in time you will find out..in you too, jesse. you will and maybe ill be there for you.

What's your best reason?

I am not sure if I want to get into that discussion at all. I am not going to be here all that much so it doesn't really serve a solid purpose for a good discussion. Besides, I have no intention of convincing you or anyone - not that I feel I'll be able to convince anyone anyway.

that's a cop out.

it's not a cop out dearest but it's a personal experience. who's going to believe me when it's a non material experience? even you won't believe me. i have no way of proving it because i only know it. did you know about this russian guy in the 70s who was dead for 3 days and was waiting in the morgue for autopsy? he was dead jessie and  he was a complete and utter materialist in his waking life and yet he had an experience in those 3 days. he's now a priest. people don't change overnight jesse unless they feel strongly about it.
You are everything I am not.

Offline Emma

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #212 on: June 23, 2013, 04:08:46 PM »
Actually I don''t know what your grudges against this religious 'God' we know. For all I know, human beings are back stabbers, vile, jealous, greedy, lustful and a number of other things. And if God has low tolerance for these traits then I can hardly blame him. I mean Einstein after all said, 'I love humanity but I hate human beings'. I am sure most things about human beings turned him off a great deal otherwise he would have never said it. We need to take a very good look at ourselves first before we put the blame on someone else. It feels convenient. God, in fact, in that sense feels like the scapegoat human beings like to have for their wrong deeds, so that they can fly without the blames. And it gets funnier with those who don't even believe in God.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 04:44:19 PM by Emma »
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Offline Swish

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #213 on: June 23, 2013, 10:26:33 PM »
For us to understand god is like an ant trying to figure out that's he's not wanted on our sandwich.
 
Just live the way that's right, no one needs to tell you what that is, you know already.

Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #214 on: June 24, 2013, 07:34:14 AM »
If there's no God jesse, then why do you care so much?

I donít claim to know there Ďis no godí just that all the arguments iíve encountered thus far donít seem show there must be, and don't adequately address the problem of human suffering, also i donít believe in god.
I care because iím interested in the world i live in, and the world i live in has many people who believe in god.
I am a lighthouse worn by the weather and the waves
And though I'm empty I still warn the sailors on their way

Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #215 on: June 24, 2013, 07:50:50 AM »
jesse, can we have a heart to heart talk? honest as in? what is the wrost thing about human being? i strongly feel it's trust. as shakespeare said once, love all, trust a few, do wrong to none. do u agree?
   
 

I think the worst thing about humans is their capacity to do harm to others-in various ways, but i think weíre generally better than we used to be (read the bible for an account of just how bad we were)
A lack of trust could be part of this, but i think most of us, most of the time are fairly honest. Yes we have capacity for deceit, but i think weíre probably hard wired- in the biological sense for cooperation.
I am a lighthouse worn by the weather and the waves
And though I'm empty I still warn the sailors on their way

Offline jesse james

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #216 on: June 24, 2013, 08:13:31 AM »
i just have far toomany reasons to belive in something .... believe in god. i can't get mad at anyone because ifeel i know it's myself i am getting amd at and that doesn't make any sense to me. anyway in time you will find out..in you too, jesse. you will and maybe ill be there for you.

What's your best reason?

I am not sure if I want to get into that discussion at all. I am not going to be here all that much so it doesn't really serve a solid purpose for a good discussion. Besides, I have no intention of convincing you or anyone - not that I feel I'll be able to convince anyone anyway.

that's a cop out.

it's not a cop out dearest but it's a personal experience. who's going to believe me when it's a non material experience? even you won't believe me. i have no way of proving it because i only know it. did you know about this russian guy in the 70s who was dead for 3 days and was waiting in the morgue for autopsy? he was dead jessie and  he was a complete and utter materialist in his waking life and yet he had an experience in those 3 days. he's now a priest. people don't change overnight jesse unless they feel strongly about it.

Well i was responding to your point about having Ďfar too many reasons to believe in something .... believe in godí, 
the experience isnít a reason, itís an experience.
The reason, in this case,  is that the experience is sufficient for one to believe in god, but that begs the question. It depends what you would count as proof and we can at least grapple with the concept of salivant proof. I could count a tingling in my left food as a sufficient reason to believe in god, but how do i know it was god and not some explicable tangle of nerves and muscles that sent messages to my brain, if I believed it was god-how could i be sure which god it was-and why doesnít  he let himself known in a more immediate way.
I donít know the case of the Russian guy, but as you implied yourself how can you know his experience is valid, it isnít an experience you or i have had, but crucially how can he be sure itís valid-if you're not willing to be rational about experiences you can accept anything, but it's up to him i guess.     
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Offline BarryW

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #217 on: September 22, 2013, 03:32:07 PM »
I believe in Emma. She is my Goddess  :)~. Ok, sorry I didn't want to derail your thread.

I do, coz it is easy to think that there is a huge power up there...fate, destiny all that kind of stuff..

Offline Samon

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #218 on: October 27, 2013, 10:47:46 AM »
Yes, i believe in the highest power, i do not believe, than in what should we have faith? 

Offline Sara767

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Re: do you believe in God?
« Reply #219 on: November 22, 2013, 04:38:58 PM »
Yes, I believe and my faith always help me