Author Topic: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter  (Read 4328 times)

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Offline FedFanForever

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2012, 11:21:09 AM »
Remember back on 04-07, Roger was younger and his rival were too.
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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2012, 02:09:13 PM »
I don't believe in this goat thing at all. yes, I'll give credit to Rog but I still think he was winning when the field was too weak. I mean, who were his competitors?

Exactly!


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Offline Swish

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2012, 07:41:11 PM »
I don't believe in this goat thing at all. yes, I'll give credit to Rog but I still think he was winning when the field was too weak. I mean, who were his competitors?

The courts were faster back then, Fed is better on the fast courts.
Djokovic wouldn't be able to get to many of those balls he gets to now.
 
Fed isn't as good as he was, he slowed down some, goes off his game for awhile and still beat Djokovic at RG and was serving for the match at the USO.
 
In his prime he would have blown Djokovic off the court.
 
 

Offline falcon

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2012, 08:03:44 PM »
And Rog still is capable of beating Nole  ;-() Its Rafa who has match-up issues with Nole.


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Offline sid

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2012, 08:25:40 PM »
I don't believe in this goat thing at all. yes, I'll give credit to Rog but I still think he was winning when the field was too weak. I mean, who were his competitors?

The courts were faster back then, Fed is better on the fast courts.
Djokovic wouldn't be able to get to many of those balls he gets to now.
 
Fed isn't as good as he was, he slowed down some, goes off his game for awhile and still beat Djokovic at RG and was serving for the match at the USO.
 
In his prime he would have blown Djokovic off the court.

Swish i think today the tennis competitors are stronger than back then,apart from Nadal who was Roger up against.Davydenko & Ljubičić as 3rd & 4th Ranked are not as good as Djokovic & Murray by a long shot back then.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 08:00:22 PM by sid »

Offline falcon

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2012, 08:38:35 PM »
I don't believe in this goat thing at all. yes, I'll give credit to Rog but I still think he was winning when the field was too weak. I mean, who were his competitors?

The courts were faster back then, Fed is better on the fast courts.
Djokovic wouldn't be able to get to many of those balls he gets to now.
 
Fed isn't as good as he was, he slowed down some, goes off his game for awhile and still beat Djokovic at RG and was serving for the match at the USO.
 
In his prime he would have blown Djokovic off the court.

Swish i think today the tennis competitors are stronger back then,apart from Nadal who was Roger up against.Davydenko & Ljubičić as 3rd & 4th Ranked are not as good as Djokovic & Murray by a long shot back then.

Of course the competitors then weren't great and I have been a strong advocate of it myself but that is nothing to take away from the genius of Fed and Fed at the age pf 30 is still giving the prime Nole a run for his money. I would know how a 25-26 year old Fed would do against the current Nole. The answer is plain simple. Murray still struggles against Fed, especially in 5 set formats in slams. Its only Rafa that's consistently beating Fed.


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Offline Swish

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2012, 09:09:17 PM »
I don't believe in this goat thing at all. yes, I'll give credit to Rog but I still think he was winning when the field was too weak. I mean, who were his competitors?

The courts were faster back then, Fed is better on the fast courts.
Djokovic wouldn't be able to get to many of those balls he gets to now.
 
Fed isn't as good as he was, he slowed down some, goes off his game for awhile and still beat Djokovic at RG and was serving for the match at the USO.
 
In his prime he would have blown Djokovic off the court.

Swish i think today the tennis competitors are stronger back then,apart from Nadal who was Roger up against.Davydenko & Ljubičić as 3rd & 4th Ranked are not as good as Djokovic & Murray by a long shot back then.

That's why I brought up the example with Fed and Djokovic's recent slam meetings, Fed's not near as good as he was no matter what anyone says.
 
It's hard to compare the fields of now and back then but we can compare Fed's game.
 
And right now he can give Djokovic a tough time and is still much better than Nadal on the fast WTF surface with his decline even.
 
 
 

Offline HarryWild

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2012, 12:51:58 AM »
GOAT - Greatest "O" All Time! :))

Offline Richard Miller

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2012, 02:07:09 AM »
In his prime he would have blown Djokovic off the court.

20 years old Djokovic beat Federer in Montreal 07, then wasted a lot of set points in USO '07 finals... don't kid yourself :)

Offline Alex

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2012, 02:38:13 AM »
I don't believe in this goat thing at all. yes, I'll give credit to Rog but I still think he was winning when the field was too weak. I mean, who were his competitors?

The courts were faster back then, Fed is better on the fast courts.
Djokovic wouldn't be able to get to many of those balls he gets to now.
 
Fed isn't as good as he was, he slowed down some, goes off his game for awhile and still beat Djokovic at RG and was serving for the match at the USO.
 
In his prime he would have blown Djokovic off the court.
don't think so. do you remember the USO 2007? Novak simply chocked. Nole def. Rog at Montreal that year.

Offline FedFanForever

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2012, 11:34:38 AM »
20 years old Djokovic beat Federer in Montreal 07, then wasted a lot of set points in USO '07 finals... don't kid yourself :)

Only after Federer had accrued 11 grand slam titles.
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Offline Start da Game

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2012, 12:46:33 PM »
when will people learn that federer is better on slow courts? he himself came out 3 days ago and commented that without homogenization and slowing down of courts, he and nadal wouldn't have managed the career grandslam.......just check out his latest interview.......the only thing funny about that comment as usual is the timing of it i.e., when djokovic is dominating the tour, but what he says is true.......

fast courts and carpets gave him fits in several finals before 2006, part of the reason why he whined about carpets along with rafa and got them removed from the tour.......he was very inconsistent in the fast era, just check his numbers.......not that he couldn't win on fast courts but that s**t is simply overblown in every discussion thread.......

how many here know that a 17 year old nadal defeated peak mario ancic on grass in 2003 wimbledon? 

 

Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2012, 01:05:58 PM »
LOL!!

Fedtards read and post every fricken word their idol speaks unless it doesn't fit their painstakenly constructed narrative.

Shank, provide the source.  In fact, that article deserves its own thread. Here we are, 2012, and Fedtards are talking GOAT. It's not like they have anything since 2009 to add to the discussion.  And yet Viola, here they are like flies to a turd. 

Now, Shank, that is the most significant contribution to this discussion in 2 years. Post the article in a new thread because it will get lost in this sea of drivvel.
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Offline Start da Game

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2012, 01:32:29 PM »
LOL!!

Fedtards read and post every fricken word their idol speaks unless it doesn't fit their painstakenly constructed narrative.

Shank, provide the source.  In fact, that article deserves its own thread. Here we are, 2012, and Fedtards are talking GOAT. It's not like they have anything since 2009 to add to the discussion.  And yet Viola, here they are like flies to a turd. 

Now, Shank, that is the most significant contribution to this discussion in 2 years. Post the article in a new thread because it will get lost in this sea of drivvel.


well, in fact his latest interview is his presser after losing to rafa in the semis of AO.......i am lost a little lol, it looked just 3 days old because i read it somewhere and thought it was his recent one but realized just now that it's one of his after loss specials.......so the thread might be dumped in the AO thread if i make one about it.......

http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/news/interviews/2012-01-27/201201261327585747638.html

Q.  Do you think Rafa seems to play better against you than the other players?  Do you know why?  Do you have an explanation?

ROGER FEDERER:  I don't know if it's true.  It's my assumption.  I feel he plays really good against me.  Now obviously I play a different game, too.  I have a onehanded backhand.  He's played me that many times on clay, so maybe he always draws something out of those matches. 

He's also got a winning record against me which maybe gives him extra confidence, I don't know.  Yeah, I think he has a clear plan and he follows that one very well. 

Like I said, I think he just plays good, you know, and he's obviously improved a lot on all surfaces over the years.  Anyway, every surface is very similar today, otherwise we couldn't have achieved all these things on all these different surfaces so quickly, like him and myself.

He's a very good player, obviously.

rafa's only a "very good player".......   
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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2012, 01:55:43 PM »
Outstanding!!! Better yet, it's been out there for a couple of weeks and nary a word from the inhabitants of Tardville.

New topic, Shank!!
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Offline Start da Game

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2012, 02:06:41 PM »
I don't believe in this goat thing at all. yes, I'll give credit to Rog but I still think he was winning when the field was too weak. I mean, who were his competitors?

The courts were faster back then, Fed is better on the fast courts.
Djokovic wouldn't be able to get to many of those balls he gets to now.
 
Fed isn't as good as he was, he slowed down some, goes off his game for awhile and still beat Djokovic at RG and was serving for the match at the USO.
 
In his prime he would have blown Djokovic off the court.

Swish i think today the tennis competitors are stronger back then,apart from Nadal who was Roger up against.Davydenko & Ljubičić as 3rd & 4th Ranked are not as good as Djokovic & Murray by a long shot back then.

Of course the competitors then weren't great and I have been a strong advocate of it myself but that is nothing to take away from the genius of Fed and Fed at the age pf 30 is still giving the prime Nole a run for his money. I would know how a 25-26 year old Fed would do against the current Nole. The answer is plain simple. Murray still struggles against Fed, especially in 5 set formats in slams. Its only Rafa that's consistently beating Fed.

federer would have been holding 4 out of the last 5 slams if not for nadal and djokovic - sounds very similar to "if not for rafa, fed would be having 4 french opens by now" argument doesn't it?

2011 french open was his best french open by far.......his two victories against nadal on clay came after his so called prime and his only real resistance against rafa's throne in RG came in 2011.......

a player like tommy haas took him to 5 sets in 2006 australian open in so called his prime, baghdatis after three 5 setters pulled him into almost another 5 in the final in the same tournament.......where as slam winners like del potro are losing 1,2,3 in 2012 australian open to this "old" man who still runs like a rabbit and can last for 5 hours if needed.......

2005 fed never had the kind of arsenal which this fed has.......the only thing which isn't superior is his slightly declined movement........the fact that he pretty much doesn't care about non-slams anymore and gives his all for slams makes him a better contender at slams than in past........his problem these days is that he has to deal with two of his colleagues who happen to be all time greats as well.......

i don't mean to say that he is still at his scintillating best but just like that fast courts nonsense, this peak thing is blown out of proportion........

in another example, it's very hard to decide what nadal's peak is.......we know he hit his clay prime in 2005 and overall around 2008, but after that it's tough to conclude when he declined.......i for one as his fan might like to believe that he declined after 2010 to make excuses for all the losses to djokovic but that's just not true........

a player who is talked in GOAT discussions doesn't fade out in 3 years.......if he does, then he's not even worth talking about his own era greats, let alone of all time.......peak thing is all relative and very subjective.......there's can be no definitive time frame for things like peak.......

 

       
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline MassiveForehand

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2012, 02:20:00 PM »
I think Rog is the GOAT not only because of the slams...

But mainly because of the "poetry" he brings onto the court! The way he floats around, and that forehand...Perfect! Nadal, I must say, is an amazing athlete...But he can't bring what Roger has brought to sport...

Only my opinion  :)~

Offline FedFanForever

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2012, 03:06:46 PM »
when will people learn that federer is better on slow courts? he himself came out 3 days ago and commented that without homogenization and slowing down of courts, he and nadal wouldn't have managed the career grandslam.......just check out his latest interview.......the only thing funny about that comment as usual is the timing of it i.e., when djokovic is dominating the tour, but what he says is true.......

fast courts and carpets gave him fits in several finals before 2006, part of the reason why he whined about carpets along with rafa and got them removed from the tour.......he was very inconsistent in the fast era, just check his numbers.......not that he couldn't win on fast courts but that s**t is simply overblown in every discussion thread.......

how many here know that a 17 year old nadal defeated peak mario ancic on grass in 2003 wimbledon? 

 

Shankar - you stupid git. Who has dominated the indoor season recently?  :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:
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Offline falcon

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2012, 03:14:20 PM »
I don't believe in this goat thing at all. yes, I'll give credit to Rog but I still think he was winning when the field was too weak. I mean, who were his competitors?

The courts were faster back then, Fed is better on the fast courts.
Djokovic wouldn't be able to get to many of those balls he gets to now.
 
Fed isn't as good as he was, he slowed down some, goes off his game for awhile and still beat Djokovic at RG and was serving for the match at the USO.
 
In his prime he would have blown Djokovic off the court.

Swish i think today the tennis competitors are stronger back then,apart from Nadal who was Roger up against.Davydenko & Ljubičić as 3rd & 4th Ranked are not as good as Djokovic & Murray by a long shot back then.

Of course the competitors then weren't great and I have been a strong advocate of it myself but that is nothing to take away from the genius of Fed and Fed at the age pf 30 is still giving the prime Nole a run for his money. I would know how a 25-26 year old Fed would do against the current Nole. The answer is plain simple. Murray still struggles against Fed, especially in 5 set formats in slams. Its only Rafa that's consistently beating Fed.

federer would have been holding 4 out of the last 5 slams if not for nadal and djokovic - sounds very similar to "if not for rafa, fed would be having 4 french opens by now" argument doesn't it?

2011 french open was his best french open by far.......his two victories against nadal on clay came after his so called prime and his only real resistance against rafa's throne in RG came in 2011.......

a player like tommy haas took him to 5 sets in 2006 australian open in so called his prime, baghdatis after three 5 setters pulled him into almost another 5 in the final in the same tournament.......where as slam winners like del potro are losing 1,2,3 in 2012 australian open to this "old" man who still runs like a rabbit and can last for 5 hours if needed.......

2005 fed never had the kind of arsenal which this fed has.......the only thing which isn't superior is his slightly declined movement........the fact that he pretty much doesn't care about non-slams anymore and gives his all for slams makes him a better contender at slams than in past........his problem these days is that he has to deal with two of his colleagues who happen to be all time greats as well.......

i don't mean to say that he is still at his scintillating best but just like that fast courts nonsense, this peak thing is blown out of proportion........

in another example, it's very hard to decide what nadal's peak is.......we know he hit his clay prime in 2005 and overall around 2008, but after that it's tough to conclude when he declined.......i for one as his fan might like to believe that he declined after 2010 to make excuses for all the losses to djokovic but that's just not true........

a player who is talked in GOAT discussions doesn't fade out in 3 years.......if he does, then he's not even worth talking about his own era greats, let alone of all time.......peak thing is all relative and very subjective.......there's can be no definitive time frame for things like peak.......

 

     

I agree for the most part, but I still think that Fed and Nole are both similar 'court' players and no, I am not calling fed a GOAT....that's too dumb a topic to be discussed in this fine discussion we are having here. I certainly do think however that a 30 year old may have weapons but movement, as you point out is definitely not that of a 25 year old and when balls ricochet past you at the pace that it is, that is certainly a very big handicap, and Fed is still capable of beating Nole who hits those backhands at this awesome pace. I can see how an excellently mobile Fed would do.


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Online Babblelot

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2012, 05:17:23 PM »
no, I am not calling fed a GOAT....that's too dumb a topic to be discussed...

NO!!!

We MUST! relitigate this topic bi-annually at T4GOAT.com
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 05:36:05 PM by Babblelot »
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