Topic: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter

[falcon]

In my opinion, Fed has lost a bit of movement and concentration but is still so good that he is able to beat the rest of the field with ease. This may imply two things. Either the rest of the field is pretty much like the WTA and/or Rafa, Nole and Fed are THAT good.

[Babblelot]

So it's conventional wisdom now that Roger is slower? You guys are so FOS. These videos are 4 years apart. Both at the US Open. Both against Djokovic.

This has got to be the EASIEST thing EVER I'll ask of any of you. With your keen eye, show me where on the video that "Slow Roger" is obviously and noticeably slower than "Fast Roger."

Slow Roger

2007 US Open - Final: Federer vs Djokovic [HD] (part 1/3)

Full Speed Roger

[HD] Djokovic vs Federer US Open 2011 SF Highlights Part 1

I'll take a non-response as a concession that you are really FOS and just repeating what you heard someone else say.   

[swish]

In my opinion, Fed has lost a bit of movement and concentration but is still so good that he is able to beat the rest of the field with ease. This may imply two things. Either the rest of the field is pretty much like the WTA and/or Rafa, Nole and Fed are THAT good.

Rafa and Nole are that good, and now you can add Murray I think to the mix.
 
The rest of the players are well behind, there's almost certainty that the top 3 will beat anyone most the time.
 
We have to wait for Murray but I was very impressed with his performance though he lost.
I hope he does well and for Lendl to stay around, it's just so good to see Lendl around the game again and to see how this relationship develops.
 
 
Babb's, your such a joke.      
 
 

[Babblelot]

FOS Roll Call
swish - here 
You really put your foot in it trying to define the weak era. That was hilarious!! 

falcon - present

Come falcon and Shank. Time to step up. It'll only take a minute because it's soooo obviously noticeable.

[falcon]

Babb, you are comparing 2007 with 2012.....compare his movement in 2006. IMO he wasn't that great in 2007 USO. Sure he won the slam but it was unconvincing for me. Just like the RG last year for Rafa was unconvincing. Yes, you might have a problem with my specific time lines that I am mentioning, but I always think that Fed was phenomenal in 2005-2006. 2007 he began having those rare losses. Remember Canas? It was in 2007 wasn't it? 2008 was abysmal from point of view of his great record. He lost miserably on clay, a SLOW surface. He did show brilliance in wimbledon, but that was about it.

As for the video clips here, don't just see the movement, where is the concentration? 2007 Fed had more concentration than the present Fed.

[falcon]

Of course, the era was still very very weak. I wish Safin had stayed around and concentrated on the matches...oh well, he wouldn't be Safin anymore then!

[Babblelot]

Babb, you are comparing 2007 with 2012.....compare his movement in 2006.

  2007 v. 2011 same surface, same opponent!

No one was talking about his alleged lost step in 2007. 

I've been very critical of Fed's mental fragility since his losing to Rafa became a fait accompli. So don't try to switch to concentration when you guys were talking about how obviously noticeable his movement has fallen off.

And if you can't point out that Roger's slower today than he was 4 years prior, then you, dear, are FOS.

I mean, how freakin' easy can this be?

[falcon]

Babb, you are comparing 2007 with 2012.....compare his movement in 2006.

  2007 v. 2011 same surface, same opponent!

No one was talking about his alleged lost step in 2007. 

I've been very critical of Fed's mental fragility since his losing to Rafa became a fait accompli. So don't try to switch to concentration when you guys were talking about how obviously noticeable his movement has fallen off.

And if you can't point out that Roger's slower today than he was 4 years prior, you, dear, are FOS.

I mean, how freakin' easy can this be?

I still say he is slower. You pick one video and show and I have seen him play all these years. I am not blind and yes, I still don't like the person Fed. I love the player Fed and he isn't the same player I saw 7 years ago, MOVEMENT WISE too.

[falcon]

and what is FOS??? I don't understand these abbreviations.

[Babblelot]

2006 Super Speedy Federer: noticeably faster than the 2007 version

Roger Federer VS Andy Murray -- Cincinnati 2006 Highlights

[Babblelot]

and what is FOS??? I don't understand these abbreviations.

It means I don't believe you can back it up. 

[falcon]

Ok consider this. I would put it this way. Federer was quicker in his heydey and now he is an efficient mover. Get the idea what I am trying to say? He just doesn't get into the best positions to hit his shots, the reason why he is shanking his forehands. He is better now than he was last year in this aspect because he just has such a tremendous skill set. Videos will tell you that Fed is still fast. He of course still is! Just that he is not as quick as he was. He is just a smarter player today. C'mon Babbs, think about it. Can a 30-31 year old run exactly like a 23-24 year old?

[falcon]

2006 Super Speedy Federer: noticeably faster than the 2007 version

Do you understand that terms "half a step faster" or "a quarter of a step faster" do NOT amount to SUPERlative terms?

[Babblelot]

Ok consider this. I would put it this way. Federer was quicker in his heydey and now he is an efficient mover. Get the idea what I am trying to say? He just doesn't get into the best positions to hit his shots, the reason why he is shanking his forehands. He is better now than he was last year in this aspect because he just has such a tremendous skill set. Videos will tell you that Fed is still fast. He of course still is! Just that he is not as quick as he was. He is just a smarter player today. C'mon Babbs, think about it. Can a 30-31 year old run exactly like a 23-24 year old?

Roger's conditioning regimen was probably a lot better in 2011 than it was in 2006 and there are physical freaks who can do things with their body's beyond what we had previously expected. Roger may simply fall into that category. Sorry, but your argument is based on conventional wisdom alone. I watch video and I can't see what's so painfully obvious to you and Shank. 

As for shanking forehands, I'd say that has more to do with your second and valid point about his concentration. Yeah, mentally, he's a different guy than when he was invincible. He gets tight and shanks forehands. I get that.

[falcon]

Ok consider this. I would put it this way. Federer was quicker in his heydey and now he is an efficient mover. Get the idea what I am trying to say? He just doesn't get into the best positions to hit his shots, the reason why he is shanking his forehands. He is better now than he was last year in this aspect because he just has such a tremendous skill set. Videos will tell you that Fed is still fast. He of course still is! Just that he is not as quick as he was. He is just a smarter player today. C'mon Babbs, think about it. Can a 30-31 year old run exactly like a 23-24 year old?

Roger's conditioning regimen was probably a lot better in 2011 than it was in 2006 and there are physical freaks who can do things with their body's beyond what we had previously expected. Roger may simply fall into that category. Sorry, but your argument is based on conventional wisdom alone. I watch video and I can't see what's so painfully obvious to you and Shank. 

As for shanking forehands, I'd say that has more to do with your second and valid point about his concentration. Yeah, mentally, he's a different guy than when he was invincible. He gets tight and shanks forehands. I get that.

Tennis just gets more and more demanding as the years pass by. He is a smart guy to skip all the useless tournaments and just focus on the slams and that is why it seems that he is still fresh as a daisy against the top guys. The fact is that Fed would in and out produce the same speed and agility in tournament after tournament in 2004-2006.

And no, Fed need not get tight in the early rounds of a slam and even there he is shanking forehands. Not just against the big guys.

[Babblelot]

Here's a freak. Former Chicago Bears WR Willie Gault.

HE’S 48-YEARS-OLD AND STILL RUNS A 4.27 40-YARD DASH   

...Compare that to Gault, who can still crack 10 seconds in the 100-yard dash, and last year ran the 40 in a blistering 4.27 and 10.80 in the 100 meters, just seven tenths of a second off his career best-a time he set almost 30 years ago. 

40 yard dashes are the standard in the U.S. So to put a 4.27 40-Yard Dash into perspective, in 2008, the fastest 40 yard dash clocked at the NFL combine (20-22 year olds) was 4.28. Outside the Olympics, the fastest Americans are in the NFL.

[falcon]

Here's a freak. Former Chicago Bears WR Willie Gault.

HE’S 48-YEARS-OLD AND STILL RUNS A 4.27 40-YARD DASH   

Compare that to Gault, who can still crack 10 seconds in the 100-yard dash, and last year ran the 40 in a blistering 4.27 and 10.80 100 meters.

40 yard dashes are the standard in the U.S. So to put a 4.27 40-Yard Dash into perspective, in 2008, the fastest 40 yard dash clocked at the NFL combine (20-22 year olds) was 4.28. Outside the Olympics, the fastest Americans are in the NFL.

Very cool. I know that we have a 38 year old batsman in cricket who is perhaps playing some of his best cricket of his life. I can see that Fed is not at his best. Period. I can definitely find him struggling with his 'oh-so-very-slightly-slow' movement, lack of concentration (age???) and confidence (probably dented by Rafa). And now I have to leave...

[Babblelot]

But now that you're splitting hairs about his movement, this only makes your claim more specious in mine eyes. 

I'll stick with concentration. His footwork or speed aren't an issue against the rest of the tour. It only shows up like his mono, after he's lost to Rafa or Nole.


 

[swish]

Babb, you are comparing 2007 with 2012.....compare his movement in 2006.

   2007 v. 2011 same surface, same opponent!

No one was talking about his alleged lost step in 2007. 

I've been very critical of Fed's mental fragility since his losing to Rafa became a fait accompli. So don't try to switch to concentration when you guys were talking about how obviously noticeable his movement has fallen off.

And if you can't point out that Roger's slower today than he was 4 years prior, you, dear, are FOS.

I mean, how freakin' easy can this be?

I still say he is slower. You pick one video and show and I have seen him play all these years. I am not blind and yes, I still don't like the person Fed. I love the player Fed and he isn't the same player I saw 7 years ago, MOVEMENT WISE too.

He's still pretty good but no one can beat aging. 

[Babblelot]

He's still pretty good but no one can beat aging. 

He's just a pigeon now, swish, just like you're my pigeon every time this stupid topic comes 'round. But I've got to hand it to you, you made the most compelling argument against Federer yet