Author Topic: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter  (Read 4225 times)

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Online monstertruck

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2012, 09:33:05 PM »
If anything his movement is better now than it ever was.  A perfect example is his footwork for the I/O FH.  It's unbelievable how fast he can back up and then fine tune his postion with plenty of time to crush the ball.  It's simply stunning compared to his unpolished movement early in his career.

Repeating catch phrases such as 1/2 a step slower are speculative at best until there is a definitive measurement of foot speed.

I've always thought his mental focus was suspect and Nadal has exploited that to the max.  I've never thought of him as a player with an iron will.

I find the constant shift in excuses from some fans both revealing and entertaining.
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Offline Start da Game

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2012, 11:31:43 PM »
i thought he might have been half a step slower these days but now after watching those videos of 2006, 2007, i feel that he is actually moving just as good, in fact he looks better now against the likes of djokovic than against roddicks and hewitts who made him look like usain bolt on a tennis court........

@swish

the last collection of fed's best groundstrokes was french open 2011 semifinal against djokovic.......i am sure there are plenty more in the recent times but that is the first one which comes to mind.......
 
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline Alex

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #82 on: February 09, 2012, 11:36:10 PM »
and what is FOS??? I don't understand these abbreviations.
lol,it means full of sh!t.

Offline falcon

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #83 on: February 10, 2012, 01:01:28 AM »
If anything his movement is better now than it ever was.  A perfect example is his footwork for the I/O FH.  It's unbelievable how fast he can back up and then fine tune his postion with plenty of time to crush the ball.  It's simply stunning compared to his unpolished movement early in his career.

Repeating catch phrases such as 1/2 a step slower are speculative at best until there is a definitive measurement of foot speed.

I've always thought his mental focus was suspect and Nadal has exploited that to the max.  I've never thought of him as a player with an iron will.

I find the constant shift in excuses from some fans both revealing and entertaining.
But that's the thing, I'm not a fan and I still am saying that. I've never been this sure about something regarding Fed.   :dunno:  I may be completely wrong here too.  I am no expert either. At the end of the day all of us are reporting what we see here. I see Fed slower than before. That's it.


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Offline falcon

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #84 on: February 10, 2012, 01:01:55 AM »
and what is FOS??? I don't understand these abbreviations.
lol,it means full of sh!t.
Aah I see.


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Offline Swish

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #85 on: February 10, 2012, 04:46:24 AM »
Is anyone here arguing that Fed's era was not weak??? Babb, don't change the line of discussion  :mad1:

Fed's ERA wasn't weak, the ERA between the time Sampras was about finished and Fed's starting is known to be weak.
 
All those players in Fed's ERA were outclassed by Fed so didn't win many titles.
Then Nadal came around and cleaned up the rest.
 
Between Fed and Nadal no one looked very good, only Nadal was beating Fed and hardly anyone else.
 
Now there's only Djokovic and Nadal cleaning up the titles for two years now.
 
The ERA looks strong because Fed's in there and winning now and then but has won no slams.
Murray has won no slams.
 
If it weren't for Fed's past record the ERA now would look to be a two man race and a very weak ERA.
 
No ones challenging the top two hardly, how is that a strong ERA?

your man del potro ripped nadal and fed back to back to win a slam........which of the 2003-2006 spartans achieved such a feat? you fedfans are just funny........

the era looks strong not just because fed's in there, but because two of fed's colleagues can match him anywhere and are being deemed as all time greats along with him.......

one can always play the oldness card but the facts remain that fed is still bringing his best tennis to slams, dispatching away opponents as casually as he did in his so called prime but is not able to add to his tally only because of nadal and djokovic........



DelPo is a strange animal no doubt.
And Fed's still Fed, he has so many weapons that are fine tuned with endurance to go the distance.
 
But not only has he lost some speed, concentration through the match, forehand isn't as reliable, serve goes off at times to name a few things.
 
Easy to forget those things, there were times the crowd would gasp when he started missing some relatively easy forehands, don't you remember that?
 
What that means is his game dropped, what was a sure winner isn't anymore.
 
Many say Fed is still so good, he is but not like before when a match was filled with OMG shots.
 
When was the last time you saw a video of great Fed shots? Think about it Shanks.
 
 

See the bolded part again.
 
In 2007 he started having losses to no name players, this is part of the decline though he's still very good.
 
Kittens has documented all of Fed's decline in posts around 2007, 2008.
He made some good points back then, only the Fed fans know what's what with that.  :cool:

From what I get here is that Fed hasn't lost anything?  ..-)

 :winner:
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 04:48:51 AM by swish »

Online monstertruck

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #86 on: February 10, 2012, 05:06:57 AM »
If anything his movement is better now than it ever was.  A perfect example is his footwork for the I/O FH.  It's unbelievable how fast he can back up and then fine tune his postion with plenty of time to crush the ball.  It's simply stunning compared to his unpolished movement early in his career.

Repeating catch phrases such as 1/2 a step slower are speculative at best until there is a definitive measurement of foot speed.

I've always thought his mental focus was suspect and Nadal has exploited that to the max.  I've never thought of him as a player with an iron will.

I find the constant shift in excuses from some fans both revealing and entertaining.
But that's the thing, I'm not a fan and I still am saying that. I've never been this sure about something regarding Fed.   :dunno:  I may be completely wrong here too.  I am no expert either. At the end of the day all of us are reporting what we see here. I see Fed slower than before. That's it.
Your name isn't on that list Falc. :)

I'm not a fan either.
If I were, I'd be interested enough to do some legwork to find the clips that illustrate my perspective.  Heck, I haven't watched the 2 Babs included in this thread. :innocent:

Sure would be nice to have some numbers or stats to add to the discussion.  At this point it's all in the eye of the beholder.

The eyes see what the mind believes.
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Online Babblelot

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #87 on: February 10, 2012, 08:06:52 AM »
swish, you don't get anything people say because nothing gets through your impenetrable bubble.
 
Fed went into decline in 2007 because he didn't go 85-6? You're a fool. That's the problem with you tards. You've been looking for a narrative that would account for losses to Nadal for years. And you point to 2006 as the end of his prime because he lost matches. 

You know what's wrong with your boy Fed, and that's plain to see to anyone who didn't stick a fork in him in 2007? (but he's still pretty good  :rofl_2: you're a clown, swish) Of course you don't, because you're Fedtarded and nothing gets through your bubble.

What ails Fed is the same thing that ails Del Porto, and therein lies your blind spot. monster tried, anyway, to explain to you that Delpo's problem lies in his low confidence. You didn't consider it even after monster explained it to you because you made up your mind and carried on about "precision"  :rofl_2:  (which monster noted again,  that's about confidence). But you didn't get that because nothing gets through your impenetrable bubble.

Delpo isn't past his prime simply because he's losing to players he should be beating, and neither is Roger. Roger's one of the greatest players of all time and is still! playing that way as evidenced by his 24 match winning streak at the end of 2011 and up to the semis of 2012 AO, which included wins over Nadal, Tsonga, Del Potro, Ferrer--a veritable who's who. But he accumulated all that hardware because he was the beneficiary of timing, just as you had noted earlier in this very thread: he racked up major titles against players from the weak era.

Now you're going to have to do a rewrite to figure out how, what's plainfully obvious to you and others, that fact couldn't possibly be the case.

Good luck, with that, swish! It ain't happenin'  :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

You guys are so fickle when it comes to Roger. He beats Rafa in London during his 17-0 finish and, to you and Fedtard Nation, he's back! and he follows that with 7 more wins! Then he loses to Rafa again, and suddenly he's past his prime because Rafa beat him. People, Rafa had already beaten Federer 6 times before 2007!!!

H2H prior to 2007
2006   Tennis Masters Cup
China   Hard   S   Federer, Roger
6-4, 7-5 Stats

2006   Wimbledon
England   Grass   F   Federer, Roger
6-0, 7-6(5), 6-7(2), 6-3 Stats

2006   Roland Garros
France   Clay   F   Nadal, Rafael
1-6, 6-1, 6-4, 7-6(4) Stats

2006   ATP Masters Series Rome
Italy   Clay   F   Nadal, Rafael
6-7(0), 7-6(5), 6-4, 2-6, 7-6(5) Stats

2006   ATP Masters Series Monte Carlo
Monaco   Clay   F   Nadal, Rafael
6-2, 6-7(2), 6-3, 7-6(5) Stats

2006   Dubai
U.A.E.   Hard   F   Nadal, Rafael
2-6, 6-4, 6-4 Stats

2005   Roland Garros
France   Clay   S   Nadal, Rafael
6-3, 4-6, 6-4, 6-3 Stats

2005   ATP Masters Series Miami
FL, U.S.A.   Hard   F   Federer, Roger
2-6, 6-7(4), 7-6(5), 6-3, 6-1 Stats

2004   ATP Masters Series Miami
FL, U.S.A.   Hard   R32   Nadal, Rafael 17 y/o and on HC  :rofl_2:  :rofl_2:
6-3, 6-3 Stats

H2H they were 2-2 on HC  :rofl_2: :rofl_2:  Gee, swish, I'd say he was past his prime in 2003 because he started losing to a player he'd never lost to before 2004  :hysterical: :lmao!:

Roger's not past his prime - he's just losing to a better player in Nadal, the #1 player in the world for a time and holder of all 4 majors. And, similarly, Rafa's not past his prime - he's just losing to a better player in Nole, the #1 player in the world and holder of 4 of the last 5 major titles.

Roger's one of the greatest of all time, but that trophy count is misleading.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 10:00:50 AM by Babblelot »
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Online Babblelot

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #88 on: February 10, 2012, 10:07:40 AM »
^^^Bookmarked for "Copy/Paste" in 6 months   ;-()
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 10:08:20 AM by Babblelot »
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Offline Start da Game

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #89 on: February 10, 2012, 12:30:25 PM »
the situation is a little out of hand, babble.......no amount of statistical evidence will convince them.......fedtards have implanted in their minds that his peak started in 2004 australian open and ended in 2007 australian open.......

just because he cannot produce another 92-6, his peak has ended.......by their logic, djokovic's peak must have started and ended in 2011 because he cannot produce another 2011.......just funny.......


 
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline falcon

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #90 on: February 10, 2012, 12:54:05 PM »
If that were the case, and I am totally incorrect in assuming that Fed hasn't lost anything since 2004, then I assume that he is now a 'greater' player for the longevity he has maintained in the sport. It still is amazing. Either way, I am a Rafan and I hope Rafa still sticks around at the age of 30.


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Offline Start da Game

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #91 on: February 10, 2012, 01:42:05 PM »
i don't mean to say that he hasn't lost anything since 2004 but only conveying to fedtards that every player evolves and it's only natural that you lose some aspects of your game and add new things as well.......that's just natural progression.......if fed still had the same 2004 weak first serve, it would be returned back 9 out of 10 times with interest by djokovic and other power hitters.......

nadal was lightening fast in 2007, 2008, now he looks slower compared to that but with better insight over the game and approach.......djokovic was really aggressive in 2008, now he has modeled himself into more of a consistent player than a fierce attacker from word go.......


« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 01:42:40 PM by Start da Game »
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline falcon

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #92 on: February 10, 2012, 02:00:08 PM »
^^^ That's a very objective post from you Shank. I agree with your post in its entirety. I pretty much say the same thing. Just that I think movement is one of those aspects. For sure Fed slices the ball better these days, serves better and plays 'more intelligently'.


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Offline Swish

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #93 on: February 10, 2012, 05:13:23 PM »
I don't know about other fedtards.
I go by level of play.

I already brought up lapses in concentration, no one said anything about it.
I brought up problems with the serve going off at times.
These are level of play problems and I haven't ever brought up year end loss totals but they have been used as one of my criteria.

There were times the backhand was shanking quite a bit, a level of play problem again.

The forehand not being reliable as in past years.

The responses are all over the map and not structured, whatever comes to mind is posted.

I'm not satisfied with these kind of posts, none have addressed the points made but now that you know what I want take them one by one.

 :cool:

Online Babblelot

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #94 on: February 10, 2012, 05:27:55 PM »
And what did you see at the end of 2011 that made you think he's primed to take the AO?

And what made you change your mind?

I know the answer to the second question is Rafa. I know this because you guys change your mind about him when he loses to Rafa.
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Offline Swish

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #95 on: February 10, 2012, 05:48:40 PM »
And what did you see at the end of 2011 that made you think he's primed to take the AO?

And what made you change your mind?

I know the answer to the second question is Rafa. I know this because you guys change your mind about him when he loses to Rafa.

I just posted some of my reasons, do you have response or just post what comes to mind.
Lets get this over, I want to watch Fed vs Nadal AO match tonight, I missed it.

Online Babblelot

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #96 on: February 10, 2012, 05:56:33 PM »
And what did you see at the end of 2011 that made you think he's primed to take the AO?

And what made you change your mind?

I know the answer to the second question is Rafa. I know this because you guys change your mind about him when he loses to Rafa.

I just posted some of my reasons, do you have response or just post what comes to mind.
Lets get this over, I want to watch Fed vs Nadal AO match tonight, I missed it.

I read it.

I also read your comments during and post 17-0. During 17-0, they sounded like, "he's got his grove back and very well may take the AO."

Post 24-0, your comments sound like, "he's pretty good now..."

Sorry, but I read your posts because your defense of Roger as GOAT cracks me up! I just love to read your metrics and machinations, and you have the definitive word on the matter, or so you believe.  :rofl_2: :lmao!:
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 05:57:29 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline Swish

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #97 on: February 10, 2012, 06:48:24 PM »
And what did you see at the end of 2011 that made you think he's primed to take the AO?

And what made you change your mind?

I know the answer to the second question is Rafa. I know this because you guys change your mind about him when he loses to Rafa.

I just posted some of my reasons, do you have response or just post what comes to mind.
Lets get this over, I want to watch Fed vs Nadal AO match tonight, I missed it.

I read it.

I also read your comments during and post 17-0. During 17-0, they sounded like, "he's got his grove back and very well may take the AO."

Post 24-0, your comments sound like, "he's pretty good now..."

Sorry, but I read your posts because your defense of Roger as GOAT cracks me up! I just love to read your metrics and machinations, and you have the definitive word on the matter, or so you believe.  :rofl_2: :lmao!:

 
That's what I thought.  :smartie:
 
 
 
Who else has thoughts on those points? Where's the shankster.   :rofl_2:
 
 

Online Babblelot

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #98 on: February 10, 2012, 06:50:09 PM »
 :)~  :har-har:

I have fun with this  :)
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Offline Swish

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Re: Why the "GOAT" thing doesn't really matter
« Reply #99 on: February 10, 2012, 08:34:37 PM »
:)~ :har-har:

I have fun with this  :)

LOL. Yeah, it's a good time.  :king: