Topic: John Isner

[chrissy822]

Cutie pie John Isner is still going strong. He played a great game to beat France in Davis Cup.  USA is now even with France each country having won one game each.  I see John moving to no 5 in the world ranking.  At least I hope so.   

[swish]

Cutie pie John Isner is still going strong. He played a great game to beat France in Davis Cup.  USA is now even with France each country having won one game each.  I see John moving to no 5 in the world ranking.  At least I hope so.   

 
John looks good and is getting better all the time.
You can look at the rankings here, it's updated a little while after each match.
At the top you can see different selections for the yearly race and top players schedule. 
 
http://live-tennis.eu/

[Babblelot]

I really don't see Big John ever advancing past 4R, QF at best, at a slam. He just plays an exhausting game for someone his size. 2012 AO is a great example. Back-to-back 5 setters in 2R and 3R, that ended in a lifeless 1-6 finale. Then again at IW he emptied the tank against Djokovic in the SF and had nothing left in the tank for Federer in the final. He showed up at Miami on empty where he lost his first match. For his style of play you'd expect to see him with several quick 6-3, 6-3 or 6-3, 6-3, 6-3 matches through a tournament, but you don't. He's out there laboring for hours struggling to break serve.

I really like the guy, but I'm not seeing him making noise in the second week of a major. We may have seen his best at IW. Fortunately, he's a great DC player, which is a format that suits his style of play: at the most, 2 big matches -- he can handle that.

[monstertruck]

That's an interesting perspective B.

I often get caught up in matches rather than looking at a tourney as an entire event.  There are additional physical and mental requirements for those players that want to go deep consistently. 

As always, I would advocate playing aggressively and keeping the points short.  His stamina, balance, and movement are such that there are few players in the top 10 he could beat consistently with a rally mentality.

[pawan89]

Babblelot - that's definitely something that has held Isner back, you're absolutely right. Do you think he'll be able to improve further though, as he's shown a propensity to improve over the years. His latest win over Tsonga in DC with a 3-6 6-7(4) 7-5 3-6 scoreline is I think fairly impressive. On clay, against a solid top 10 player, he won every set with a break, and two sets at 6-3.

He's also been going for a lot more on service returns which I think could pay-off. He's a big guy so additional time on court will hurt him big time but keep in mind his service games are easily at least twice as fast if not faster than most other guys' service games on tour. I'd be interested in seeing his court-time in Indian Wells.

Isner's win over Djokovic at Indian Wells was 166 minutes for a total of 28 games. Roger's win over Nadal was 92 minutes for 19 games. That comes out to nearly 6 minutes per game for Isner and under 5 minutes per game for Roger. Hmm - I expected Isner's per-game statistic to be shorter, that's interesting. I wonder if that's the norm or an exception, Djokovic is afterall not a "typical" opponent for Isner in the first few rounds of big tournaments. It is troubling indeed if he's spending more time per game than other people consistently, given his size and what he should be able to do with a game like his. 

Bigger returns might be the key for him. He's now beaten, in Davis cup in recent history, the likes of Federer, Simon and Tsonga in convincing fashion, without going 5 sets vs. anyone, on clay, and winning sets by breaking his opponents. I would say he's on the right path as long as his service games stay quick with at least 2 service winners/aces in each game.

[Djokovic Champion]

Isner wins a fantastic match over Djokovic. But I think he could improve his game a bit, because it depends too much on the service.

[swish]

Isner wins a fantastic match over Djokovic. But I think he could improve his game a bit, because it depends too much on the service.

He's getting better but to beat the best in big tournaments he'll have to play his very best and have some help.
 
 

[Djokovic Champion]

Isner wins a fantastic match over Djokovic. But I think he could improve his game a bit, because it depends too much on the service.

He's getting better but to beat the best in big tournaments he'll have to play his very best and have some help.

Yes, and he can not solely rely on the service.

[Babblelot]

Babblelot - that's definitely something that has held Isner back, you're absolutely right. Do you think he'll be able to improve further though, as he's shown a propensity to improve over the years. His latest win over Tsonga in DC with a 3-6 6-7(4) 7-5 3-6 scoreline is I think fairly impressive. On clay, against a solid top 10 player, he won every set with a break, and two sets at 6-3.

He's also been going for a lot more on service returns which I think could pay-off. He's a big guy so additional time on court will hurt him big time but keep in mind his service games are easily at least twice as fast if not faster than most other guys' service games on tour. I'd be interested in seeing his court-time in Indian Wells.

Isner's win over Djokovic at Indian Wells was 166 minutes for a total of 28 games. Roger's win over Nadal was 92 minutes for 19 games. That comes out to nearly 6 minutes per game for Isner and under 5 minutes per game for Roger. Hmm - I expected Isner's per-game statistic to be shorter, that's interesting. I wonder if that's the norm or an exception, Djokovic is afterall not a "typical" opponent for Isner in the first few rounds of big tournaments. It is troubling indeed if he's spending more time per game than other people consistently, given his size and what he should be able to do with a game like his. 

Bigger returns might be the key for him. He's now beaten, in Davis cup in recent history, the likes of Federer, Simon and Tsonga in convincing fashion, without going 5 sets vs. anyone, on clay, and winning sets by breaking his opponents. I would say he's on the right path as long as his service games stay quick with at least 2 service winners/aces in each game.

I don't care about games or sets because a 45' 6-1 set is probably more exhausting than a 45' 7-5 set. So if you say Big John sprints through his service games, then I've understated how much he labors through his return games.

Isner by tournament. Unfortunately, the ATP site does not keep stats on DC matches 

Sydney
Reynolds  L  1:52

Australian Open - Best of 5 sets is where I would look to assess his improvement
Mitchell  W  2:04
Nalbandian  W  4:41
Lopez  L  3:26
I don't see improvement here

Memphis
Muller  W  1:40
Young  W  1:43
Melzer  L  1:21

Delray Beach
Levine  W  1:46
Sweeting  W  1:08
Tomic  W  0:56
Anderson  L  1:36

Indian Wells
Gil  W  1:18
Monaco  W  2:04
Ebden  W  1:15
Simon  W  1:59
Djokovic  W  2:46
Federer  L  1:22

Miami
Davydenko  W  1:45
Mayer  L  1:08

Total Matches (excluding DC)  19
<= 1:15  4  21%
< 1:30   7  37%
> 1:30   12  63%
>= 1:45   9  47% - nearly half of all matches are just under 2 hours
> 2:00   5  26%
> 2:45   3 
> 3:15   2 
> 4:30   1 - longest = 4:46

Best of 3 sets
Total matches  16
< = 1:15  4  25%
< 1:30   7  44%
>= 1:45   6  38% - he's played 1 more match under 1:30 than he's played at or over 1:45. 
> 2:00   2
> 2:45  1 - longest 2:46

Best of 5 sets
> 2:45   3 
> 3:15   2 
> 4:30   1 

It gets more interesting when you match length of match with opponents.
Simon  W  1:59
Reynolds  L  1:52
Levine  W  1:46
Young  W  1:43
Mayer  L  1:08

I don't know, guys, I'm just not seeing the improvement he needs to make noise in the second week of a major.

[conchita]

Isner by tournament. Unfortunately, the ATP site does not keep stats on DC matches 
I don't know, guys, I'm just not seeing the improvement he needs to make noise in the second week of a major.

but just my take, the most interesting thing about the Davis Cup is that the matches are best of 5 sets, 
not like the overhyped MS events where I missed the best of 5 sets finals. in fact some top players want to change the format of the Davis Cup to best of 3 sets.
I think he can do well at Wimby and he is not going to feel the pressure at the USO, the loss to Lopez at the AO was a big upset, very surprised, but Lopez is quite unpredictable on hardcourts.

[Babblelot]

Isner by tournament. Unfortunately, the ATP site does not keep stats on DC matches 
I don't know, guys, I'm just not seeing the improvement he needs to make noise in the second week of a major.

but just my take, the most interesting thing about the Davis Cup is that the matches are best of 5 sets, 
not like the overhyped MS events where I missed the best of 5 sets finals. in fact some top players want to change the format of the Davis Cup to best of 3 sets.
I think he can do well at Wimby and he is not going to feel the pressure at the USO, the loss to Lopez at the AO was a big upset, very surprised, but Lopez is quite unpredictable on hardcourts.

What I was saying is DC is a perfect format for John because he has to play at most 2 meaningful matches.

As for Wimbledon, it exposes something else about John that we perceive but isn't there. Grass doesn't suit his game. He's 2-3 at Wimby.


Wimbledon
2008
1R Gulbis  L

2009 DNP

2010
1R Muhut  W
2R de Bakker  L

2011
1R Mahut  W
2R Almagro  L

Newport
2007
1R Norman  L

2008
1R Levine  L

2009-2010  DNP

2011 - title but not exactly "Murderer's Row"
1R Beck W
2R Clement W
QF Bogomolov Jr.  W
SF Kamke W
F Rochus  W

Queen's
2008
1R Anderson  W
2R Mahut  L

Eastbourne
1R Stepanek  L

A bunch of 1R and 2R exits and a soft title.

[conchita]

in Wimby, Gulbis sonetimes competes there, not in other places, against De Bakker he had nothing left in the tank after the epic match vs Mahut and Almagro is quietly lifting his game in all surfaces, it's Nico's time now, too bad he is not taller like Isner. Also in Davis Cup, you not only play against opponent, also the crowd and Courier can be a factor in his career. I think he is hungry for success and in the right direction. the event at Newport has a weak field, sad because it's the site of the HOF. the losses at Queens and Eastbourne were against grass court specialist, Mahut and Stepanek. He was not seeded in previous years at the majors, now he is a top 10 player and the bright future of tennis USA.

[Babblelot]

In any event, his progress on clay and DC prowess is in fact measurable and undeniable. But that doesn't change my mind about his chances at any major.

[hercules]

he is making progress.

[Imsda]

I Think he is a really good player and pretty cute to lol

[Djokovic Champion]

he is making progress.

I agree.

[Alex]

I like his personality but, unfortunately don't like his game. find it kinda boring (sorry to his fans). John is already 26yo ... won only 3 small tournaments. I think he actually over achieved in his career. Beating Novak at IW, Fed at DC ... it's all great but, but, but ... he is horrible at slams. He was able to reach QF at the USO and that's his biggest success. I wish him luck but not really sure he can win anything significant.

[Djokovic Champion]

I like his personality but, unfortunately don't like his game. find it kinda boring (sorry to his fans). John is already 26yo ... won only 3 small tournaments. I think he actually over achieved in his career. Beating Novak at IW, Fed at DC ... it's all great but, but, but ... he is horrible at slams. He was able to reach QF at the USO and that's his biggest success. I wish him luck but not really sure he can win anything significant.

Isner is not a fantastic player, he's just a good player who can win some tough games.

[Babblelot]

pawan, I'm watching Isner-Monaco.

Isner has already faced 14 BPs against his serve; was broken twice in the first set but the first set went 29' so those games were quick. He won the second set 6-3 in about an hour (not official). So, though he never was broken in the second set, he labored through his service games.

And keep in mind, this is going at least 4 sets in best of 5.

[Babblelot]

pawan, I'm watching Isner-Monaco.

Isner has already faced 14 BPs against his serve; was broken twice in the first set but the first set went 29' so those games were quick. He won the second set 6-3 in about an hour (not official). So, though he never was broken in the second set, he labored through his service games.

And keep in mind, this is going at least 4 sets in best of 5.

Monaco 6-2, 3-6, 6-3 more importantly 2h 28', Isner's third Best of 3 set matches exceeding 2 hours.

Isner faced 16 BPs and was broken 3 times after holding 45 consecutive service games thru the SF.