Author Topic: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!  (Read 3908 times)

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Offline williamchung7

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2012, 12:45:17 AM »
How many players have complained this blue clay? Nadal, Djokovic and Federer... then what about other players?

Offline ashwin#1

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2012, 03:43:52 AM »
if nadal boycotts the tournament, the only thing he'll lose is some ranking points, soem fans & respect !! :mad1:

i say the top 100 or 200's opinion on blue clay should be taken & then a decision based on their opinions should be taken whether to reinstate the red clay or not !!
Bringing back the red clay should not be enforced just because of nadal or the top3 or top10 !! :innocent:
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

Offline Start da Game

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2012, 05:57:47 AM »
nadal never used to be like this.......he was so humble that he din't even open his mouth about the knee injury until queen's tournament in 2009.......just gave full credit to soderling of all and moved on.......and that was french open.......now these days he is angered by these nonsensical changes in insignificant events.......

i too think he needs to calm down and just do things than openly talk about it like what he used to do until a year ago or so.......

but i disagree that his quitting from the players council was a bad decision, it was the right decision....... 

Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline Start da Game

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2012, 06:11:09 AM »
Well, interestingly enough they have been making all the surfaces in tennis slower and more along the lines of what Nadal likes, so I find it interesting when he does not like a surface and is vocal about it.  He is lucky he did not play 15 years ago, shoot, even the grass plays more like clay now.  Oh well, he is still the clay master, a loss on blue clay will not kill him.


You are right Scott... 90% of the surfaces today are almost alike... (slow, high bounces, and slower)... :rofl_2:  I like variety.  I didn't like it back in the 90s when everything was super fast and all we had was serve/ace/winner...but I do think we still NEED some surfaces like that today.  We need variety.  I have no problem with this tournament experimenting with the blue clay.  We need innovations!  I can actually see the ball better on the blue clay.  Sometimes the way Nadal (and others) "whine" about the surfaces, you'd think the only way they can win is on an 'ideal' surface for them!  Nadal complains about the Year-End surface in England saying the ball bounces too low...duh... we don't have to have all the surfaces to suite Nadal's ideal surface.  I like the variety!  I would hope he doesn't 'boycott' this tournament next year just because he's not happy with the surface. 

Anyway - seems like the other players are adapting to this 'blue stuff'.  Novak didn't play particularly well in his first match, but he's playing better today.  Roger is looking better... Juan Martin is still in the tournament; Berdych; etc.  So it can't be all that bad.  We haven't really had a lot of major upsets yet (except for Nadal).

somebody on tenniswarehouse came up with stats of who won more on slower surfaces in their careers.......the chart leaders are roger federer and novak djokovic, followed by rafael nadal, all three in that order.......

fast surfaces don't hurt nadal.......i never understood where people get this idea from.......nadal has won every single fast court match against federer.......dubai, australian open plexicushion, even the exos in abu dhabi, china.......the only time fed beat rafa on a fast court was madrid 2009 which was a fluke as we all know.......

outside of cincinnatti which doesn't fit rafa's schedule quite well, djokovic has never beaten nadal on any fast court.......fastest hardcourt beijing, queen's, us open '10 were all taken by rafa.......they effed the uso surface in '11 and it looked frigging slow allowing djokovic plenty of time to execute his game.......

if surfaces were fast, they would have hard time breaking rafa's serve.......and his forehands wouldn't sit up to be spanked like on slow surfaces, they would take off and take the opponent totally out of the comfort zone on a fast court......rafa loves to be pushed and is known as the one of the greatest passers in the day......federer and djokovic would frequently find themselves at the net and rafa would make a mockery of their joke volleys..... 




 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 06:21:55 AM by Start da Game »
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline medwatt

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2012, 12:16:37 PM »
outside of cincinnatti which doesn't fit rafa's schedule quite well, djokovic has never beaten nadal on any fast court.......fastest hardcourt beijing, queen's, us open '10 were all taken by rafa.......they effed the uso surface in '11 and it looked frigging slow allowing djokovic plenty of time to execute his game.......
This is one of the most egregious posts I've ever read. Your blindness is so blatant. I can't believe you even believe what you write.
You are accepting what you like and disregarding easily what is irrelevant in your opinion. We say Wimbledon is now slow, you say no its the same. We say USOPEN 2010 was slow, now you claim its fast. Djokovic won last year the USOPEN and now it got slower again.
Come on man! Your points are so ambiguous as you dots ( ....... ) that it is really time-wasting.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 12:17:20 PM by medwatt »
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Offline mtt

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2012, 12:39:33 PM »
Quote
fast surfaces don't hurt nadal.......i never understood where people get this idea from.......nadal has won every single fast court match against federer
That is such BS..

What about the YEC in London ?
What about wimbledon before they slowed it down ?

Offline williamchung7

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2012, 04:26:49 PM »
The fact is ATP change the condition of courts are not only Madrid Master, but also other tournaments around the world including World Tour Final, Fast hard court tournaments, Wimbledon as somebody said...etc. Still, this topic should back to simple question now, is it too slippy? And why, speed or soil itself? What sorts of things need to improve for next year?

To judge it, at least it need more feedback from players. Cannot just talk about what top 3 players think in this court condition. Maybe somebody should make a thread and gather all the feedback from all players if there is survey or interview.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 04:30:58 PM by williamchung7 »

Offline williamchung7

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2012, 05:03:21 PM »
It seal the topic. :whistle:
They are going to improve this surface instead of back to traditional red clay.


http://www.thehindu.com/sport/tennis/article3408840.ece
Tiriac promises to improve slippery Madrid blue clay


Madrid Masters bosses apologized on Friday for the slippery blue clay courts which have drawn fire from some players this week, but said that the situation is gradually getting better and less slippery by the day after late—night work lasting until 4.a.m at the Caja Magica.
 
Tournament supremo and adviser Ion Tiriac added that with a prize packet of in excess of 10 million dollars at the ATP—WTA event, competitors had a duty as professional to get on with matches.
 
“That kind of money does not come from Mother Teresa,” said the legendary former player, manager and billionaire promoter. “The players have to give back as well.”

Both idea man Tiriac and tournament director Manolo Santana promised that the court will slowly improve, explaining that an excess of caution at the construction stage in order to prevent any ankle injuries resulted in producing a surface which is too slick.
 
Tiriac said that over time, the courts will season and start to play like the traditional red clay court which have been the preserve of Rafael Nadal, who lost in the third round and said he would never return to play on blue clay. His sentiment was seconded by number one Novak Djokovic.
 
“It’s a pity,” said Tiriac. “I would be very sad if they did not play. “The players are right when they say it is too slippery, we are working daily to fix that and things are getting better. There are still three days to go this week.”

The mustachioed Romanian, who has seen it all in 40 years of tennis, expressed regret for the situation but said that there has been no dispute at all about the actual blue colour, which form all reports has produced brilliant television pictures around the world.
 
The executive spoke frankly at a first—ever meeting between three former ATP CEOs who flew in as tournament guests: American Mark Miles (1990—2005), South African Etienne de Villiers (2005—2008) and Adam Helfant of the US (2009—2012).
 
“The court is slippery and I apologize,” said Tiriac. “We wanted to make sure that we had no player injuries, no ankle problems.
 
“As a result, the court experts rolled the base with too much pressure. When the blue sand was put on top it was unable to mix with the base; that created the slippery conditions.”

With the blue courts now remaining in place all through the year, they will slowly become more and more playable, presumably easing player concerns.
 
Tiriac said that the ATP must now take a decision about players who might wish to refuse to play Madrid in 2013.
 
Santana said the event has been working with clay experts from the French Open, Monte Carlo Masters and home—grown technicians. “Of course I’m upset with what some players are saying, but we absolutely did not want any injures (like in Monte Carlo last month).
 
“I take all of the blame for what is happening. But on TV the pictures are unbelievable with the blue. We are working hard to fix everything.”

Tiriac said that players who have complained the most might have had the hardest time adjusting to the surface. “No court in the world will improve without people playing on it. But the players are correct, it is too slippery.”


Keywords: Madrid clay, blue clay

Offline Alex

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2012, 05:29:38 PM »
Djokovic should shut up too and not show up at Madrid next year. who cares about Madrid anyway?

the source http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/05/11/novak-djokovic-also-blames-madrid-open-exit-on-blue-clay/

They can do what they like, I won’t be here next year if this clay stays.”

Nadal also insisted on Thursday that he, too, would not play the Madrid tournament if the blue clay remains in place in 2013.

Earlier on Friday, tournament supremo Ion Tiriac had been forced to apologize for the anger felt by the players towards the surface.

“The court is slippery and I apologize,” said the former Davis Cup player.

“We wanted to make sure that we had no player injuries, no ankle problems. As a result, the court experts rolled the base with too much pressure. When the blue sand was put on top it was unable to meld with the base, creating the slippage.”

But Tiriac said that after striking a maintenance deal with the city of Madrid, the blue courts will remain in place year-round at the Caja Magica and will eventually be as comfortable to play on as traditional red clay.

Djokovic saved three match points in the penultimate game against Tipsarevic on Friday — the first two with aces — as he held on for 3-5.

But Tipsarevic came through for the upset on his fourth chance a game later as Djokovic lifted a backhand out.

“Janko played a great match. It was one of his best events. I hope he can go all the way. I missed chances in opening games on return,” added Djokovic.

“Any time I had a chance, he delivered his best shot. You cannot predict the court here, anything is possible.”

Tipsarevic will face Roger Federer or Spain’s David Ferrer for a place in Sunday’s final.

Federer, the 16-time Grand Slam champion, could move to second in the world behind Djokovic should he win the title.

Tomas Berdych brought Verdasco crashing back to earth as the sixth seed produced a 6-1, 6-2 quarter-final win over the Madrid-born 15th seed.

The Czech will next play Argentine 10th seed Juan Martin del Potro, who put out Ukrainian Alexandr Dolgopolov 6-3, 6-4, just a week after winning the title in Estoril.

Berdych will be out for revenge after losing to Del Potro in their last meeting indoors in Rotterdam in February.

“It’s the business end of the tournament with two more possible matches to come,” said former Wimbledon finalist Berdych.

“I know what I have to do against Del Potro. He’s always tough, he knows how to win Grand Slams. It would be great to get a win over him after already losing.”

Verdasco refused to blame the court conditions for his sudden loss of form.

“I’m not complaining at all about the court. For me it’s no problem, it was slippery for everyone,” he said.




Offline mtt

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2012, 05:45:38 PM »
Are the courts really that slippery ?
Right now, I am watching the Ferrer-Fed match, and they are both moving just fine, running, sliding, etc. Typical clay court tennis.

I mean, up to now, the only major complaints came for guys who lost matches, which they shouldn't have.
Especially Nadal. For him, it is unheard of to lose a match after being up 5-2 in the final set.
Don't now if that has ever happened to him before. If the courts are really that slippery, and hindering his movement, how did he manage to win the 2nd set, and the go up 5-2 in the 3rd ?
Is there an on/off switch hidden somewhere for the court slipperiness ?
Definitely sour grapes...
Same goes for Djokovic, he was doing ok until he messed up that tie-break, and then just went away.
I think they both know that they just did not play well, and are just venting their frustration.
Also think that most of the frustration is not so much about the courts as such, but the fact that the ATP went ahead with the blue clay at a masters 1000 event, basically without consulting with the players, instead of trying it out at a lesser event first.

I am still undecided about the color, just looks weird, but have to admit that it makes for much better TV images, the ball is clearly visible, which sometimes is not the case on the red clay, specially when you are watching it on regular, non-HD TV.
Another thing I noticed, seems to me that the marks left by the ball are much more distinctive than on the red clay.

Offline Alex

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2012, 06:09:27 PM »
mtt, it's not just the colour. I can't quite understand to be honest with you, but I've never seen both Djokovic and Nadal moving so bad, tripping, sliding ... whatever ... the surface is weird.

I've seen both Djokovic and Nadal losing matches before but they've never complained about the surface  before.

Offline garion

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2012, 07:19:10 PM »
Djoko, Nadal, Azaarenka have said it's slippery. Fed I think agreed. It's not just Nadal. Color is one thing but if it's slippery, that's dangerous (and also it's what Nadal and Djoko's games are built on).


Plus TPTB admitted it's slippery. That's not cool. They should've had a product that was ready not testing it at the event. "Earlier on Friday, tournament supremo Ion Tiriac had been forced to apologize for the anger felt by the players towards the surface.
“The court is slippery and I apologize,” said the former Davis Cup player."


Now, stuff happens and it seems they didn't see this coming but the fact remains that they admit it's slippery and players (not just Nadal) are upset by it. Nadal is just being vocal about it.

Offline Alex

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2012, 07:26:30 PM »
definitely Garion. I'm really mad at Tiriac creating all of this mess. if you have #1 and #2 player threatening not to play this tournament again, something is really wrong. 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 09:32:31 PM by Alex »

Offline Swish

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2012, 07:37:39 PM »
So now Djokovic joins the chorus.  ..-)
 
I can see why both Nadal and Nole don't like the surface, it negates their quick movement, sudden push-off to the ball.
 
But others are playing on it and I like how I can pickup the ball on streaming.
 
 
It may be slippery so that can be remedied but saw a few matches and it wasn't too bad.
 
Players have to adjust, if they want to stay home then stay home but close the face hole about it.
 
 
 
 

Offline Swish

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2012, 08:14:14 PM »
Serena got it right this time.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/azarenka-battles-madrid-tennis-semi-finals-142145055--ten.html
 
Serena routs Sharapova, shrugs off blue clay boycott
 
Serena Williams routed Maria Sharapova to reach the Madrid Open semi-finals on Friday, but insisted she has no intention of joining Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic in their blue clay boycott threat.
 
The American ninth seed cruised to a 6-1, 6-3 quarter-final win over second-seeded Sharapova, the recent Stuttgart champion, hitting 11 aces, 28 winners and enjoying five breaks of serve in 80 minutes.
 
Williams said that while the blue clay courts remain problematic, the issue was not enough to make her consider skipping the event in 2013 as Nadal and Djokovic have threatened to do.
 
 

Offline conchita

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2012, 08:39:46 PM »
Nadal never takes a break during this time of the year.
 
He was lucky to lose today, he'll get some needed rest for the heavy schedule coming up.


he took a double break in the decider. on clay.

quite sad there's a topic to bash Nadal and not a topic about the biggest failure involving a pro event in tennis history.
I have spoken so much about Madrid since the Magic Box was opened...than not anymore, waste of time.
probably the most important tennis news this week is Santoro, the Magician ready to play in the champions tour.
have been thinking about the lawsuit lost by the Rothenbaum club of Hamburg. feel happy RCTB said no to Tiriac.
for next year the romanian boss wants new fluorescent green balls. not funny anymore.

ready for the surface in Rome ;)


not really the blue clay they are angry about; it's the way that the decision was made against the players' wishes. ATP stands for Association of Tennis Players. It was formed to protect the interests of the players. Now it seems to cater to the interests of tournament owners, and the players feel they have no voice. This is the root of the problem.

the reason no 1 and 2 quickly gone is they don't want to risk injuring and losing further upcoming matches for another 5 or 6 months. the fear of getting hurt itself will limit the game. Delpo stamped himself to the wall this week, courts 2 and 3 are more slippery than centre, JM went on to say he was lucky didn't injure shoulder.

the problem is not the color of clay as most people complain but the underlying hardened surface...

If the main tennis court has to be redone every year then this is a poor venue for a world class tennis tournament.  Clay courts take months (sometimes longer) to properly settle down.

Slippery courts are dangerous. 
The testing of the surface was insufficient.

Lost in all the talk about better visibility (which I do like) is the fact that when they wanted to switch to blue clay, it was to better match the sponsor's colors.

ATP & Tiriac  should remember that Madrid is of highest level ATP MASTERS 1000 not aN ATP250 tournament .
They can arrange coulours and models as ball girls but they can't arrange a proper court.
 
If they can't arrange proper court ATP should move tournament to Hamburg which sued ATP for relegating it to ATP 500 level.

Apparently their mistake was not so much the color but over compacting the surface to the point where the loose material on top slid overtop a harder compacted subsurface like ball bearing along a hard track.

-----

We've had the same [guy] who has been working on the courts at Roland Garros for 12 years," Tiriac said. "We know that a new court is never good, even if we keep sweeping it, they have to play on it, Here in Madrid, we have to built and dismantle it each year. There's a reason that the court is what it is. We did not want to have so many bad bounces as before. What happens is that they have been pushing, pushing and pressing it to compress it, and have done it so much that it has become too hard."

He is lying!!!! the guy was just an advisor, the company chosen to make the courts knew there was a problem long time before, even the other companies knew the courts were done wrong. didn't care til the event start, now they are trying to solve the problem in the last days trying to dismantle the hard subsurface. too late.
the Magic Cavern empty 300 milion euros.
built and dismantle each year, until the summer of 2011 Real Madrid baskeball team played there, then the club left to play in a better located facility in downtown (the magic cavern is in nowehere, quite a distance from underground station, 40 mins-1 hour by car from downtown, and some more problems with the neightbourhood). the venue has been empty since last summer.
in fact, the madrid tennis federation stopped the activity in the indoor garden and outside courts because the contract was too expensive at the end of 2011, even the kids were not allowed to play tennis there. in fact the best indoor courts are going to be for paddel and the others for a formula one team, no more tennis indoor.
the magic cavern was going to cost 100 milion euros, then the final amount was almost 300 milion euros.
retractabler roof in 3 stadiums? never rains in may in Madrid. never.
the design inside is horrible, poor visibility on the main court's corners, main court too small, only 12500, must have been 15-16000, show court 1 and 2, 3000 and 2000, compare to Rome 6000 and 3500.

and the spanish media and players are "silent respect" because the director and codirector are Santana and Moya.
and Nadal is talking as the representative of almost 20 local players in the top 200 and the majority of fans of the country.

-----

They should put tiriac and santana to play, and charge 40 euro for it, then lets wait and see who is going to watch that.

----

Uncle Toni: Madrid can proceed without Tiriac
 
Toni Nadal, the uncle and coach of Rafael Nadal, tells Spanish TV, "that the ATP given permission to this [Madrid] is an outrage," and that it's not worth the risk of the players' health to compete on such a slippery surface.
 
Toni Nadal also took aim at tournament owner Ion Tiriac, saying, "I'll thank you if you take him somewhere else, to see if we can organize [the tournament] without him ... but the blame is also with ATP that allowed Tiriac to do that. What power this man must have that allows him to change customs and habits of the players ... Tiriac apologized to Rafa after the match. But the big culprit is ATP, which should not have give permission [for blue clay] and I hope that they do not give it next year."
 
Veteran tennis journalist Richard Evans, who is in Madrid, tweeted that Tiriac will step down in 2013, but didn't specify why. A Romanian TV station reported that Tiriac is merely stepping away from the administrative side of things, and will remain as tournament owner and chairman.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 10:52:33 PM by conchita »
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Offline Alex

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2012, 09:40:22 PM »
Serena got it right this time.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/azarenka-battles-madrid-tennis-semi-finals-142145055--ten.html
 
Serena routs Sharapova, shrugs off blue clay boycott
 
Serena Williams routed Maria Sharapova to reach the Madrid Open semi-finals on Friday, but insisted she has no intention of joining Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic in their blue clay boycott threat.
 
The American ninth seed cruised to a 6-1, 6-3 quarter-final win over second-seeded Sharapova, the recent Stuttgart champion, hitting 11 aces, 28 winners and enjoying five breaks of serve in 80 minutes.
 
Williams said that while the blue clay courts remain problematic, the issue was not enough to make her consider skipping the event in 2013 as Nadal and Djokovic have threatened to do.

oh, not the WTA  :\ stuff. It is different with guys and girls on so many different levels. I'm even surprised that Princess Serena decided to even show up here. Doesn't she play majors only? anyway,  why would she join Djokovic and Nadal? She always, uses power to win (not speed, not movement).

Online Babblelot

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2012, 10:27:44 PM »
Nadal threatens boycott after Madrid exit

Rafa Nadal suffered his first claycourt defeat in 23 matches and threatened to boycott next year's Madrid Masters if officials did not ditch the blue clay that players have labelled "too slippery" and only fit for "smurfs (to) play on".


I wasn't getting any info in English. Thanks for posting this!
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Offline FedFanForever

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2012, 10:34:28 PM »

Federer's response to Nadal:
Then we will fight in the shade.

Offline ashwin#1

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Re: Nadal should SHUT his mouth and PLAY !!
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2012, 01:04:32 AM »
Nadal's Reaction : 

You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.