Author Topic: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money  (Read 2654 times)

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Offline Rafa816

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Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« on: August 28, 2012, 02:13:23 AM »
Dunno if this has been brought up, but I didn't see a topic on it, so I figured I'd make one.

I think it's kind of ridiculous that women are given equal prize money and that the issue is pretty much closed up and done. The guys are out there busting their butts for much longer than the women, and the women get equal prize money? For example, at this year's Australian Open, Victoria Azarenka spent 10 hours and 24 minutes on court total. Novak Djokovic spent more time on court than that (10 hours and 43 minutes) in his last two matches alone.

Look to the record books. The longest women's match ever in a slam took 4 hours and 44 minutes. There have been 11 matches in men's slam history that have taken over 5 hours. As compared to 0 in women's slam history. The longest match in women's slam history, as in longest ever, completely ridiculous, was equivalent to a tiring marathon for a guy's match. But not anywhere near the longest in history.

The point is, let's say a woman goes out on court, and has a super tough match. She ends up winning 6-7 (3), 7-5, 6-3. It's one of the toughest of her career. A guy goes out on court and has a decently easy match. He ends up winning 7-5, 6-4, 6-4. The guy's match was a relatively easy one, somewhat close at times, but a straight sets victory. It contained one less game overall than the woman's match, which was supposedly extremely tough and she might have even had to save some match points. And yet, they spent the same time on court. So then let's look at a guy's match that's tougher. Say he wins 7-5, 3-6, 4-6, 7-6 (6), 6-4. He just went out there and had to exert himself for a lot longer than the woman did, but gets the same prize money. How is that fair? Why does a woman get paid more per hour (basically) than the man?

Now, I'm not being sexist here. I have no problem with women getting the same prize money as men. But if they want the same amount of money, they should have to do the same amount of work. Make them play best of 5 sets.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2012, 05:10:24 AM »
Ayuh, it's been discussed before.
Never hurts to bring it up again.

Perfect example of Affirmative Action gone wrong.
Inferior product offered by WTA.
Less actual work performed by the women, only best-of-three.
Have yet to see a valid arguement in favor of = pay.
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Offline Start da Game

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2012, 08:39:07 AM »
Ayuh, it's been discussed before.
Never hurts to bring it up again.

Perfect example of Affirmative Action gone wrong.
Inferior product offered by WTA.
Less actual work performed by the women, only best-of-three.
Have yet to see a valid arguement in favor of = pay.

i saw one noteworthy argument on tennis forum........they say that players outside top 4 on the ATP do not generate as much revenue as the ones outside top 4 in the women's game........they gave examples of players like simon, tipsarevic in comparison to female top 10 players like lisicki, venus, sharapova and whoever who are more famous than them........so that compensates for whatever deficit the top 4 in women's tennis accounts for in relation to men's top 4........

irrespective of whatever no. of sets players on both sides play, tennis forum posters say that women's tennis is not far behind men's game as far as generating revenue is concerned........
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline Rafa816

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2012, 08:55:24 AM »
I would very strongly like to see actual numbers on that. Maybe not people like Tipsarevic or Simon that have just recently cracked the Top 10, but I'd like to see a comparison on the revenue between, say, Del Po and Kerber. Or Roddick and Bartoli. Plus, revenue can't really be compared, since most people buy tickets for the court for a day, not a particular time session (until you get into the later days). But I can almost guarantee that the guy's final brings in a lot more money than the women's final.

But, personally, I don't think it matters what the revenue brought in it. I can guarantee if it was the other way around, and men didn't have to play as long matches but got equal pay, there would be all kinds of protests and it would be a huge feminist issue. It's just like monsterstruck said, it's affirmative action gone wrong.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2012, 09:50:41 AM »
Ayuh, it's been discussed before.
Never hurts to bring it up again.

Perfect example of Affirmative Action gone wrong.
Inferior product offered by WTA.
Less actual work performed by the women, only best-of-three.
Have yet to see a valid arguement in favor of = pay.

i saw one noteworthy argument on tennis forum........they say that players outside top 4 on the ATP do not generate as much revenue as the ones outside top 4 in the women's game........they gave examples of players like simon, tipsarevic in comparison to female top 10 players like lisicki, venus, sharapova and whoever who are more famous than them........so that compensates for whatever deficit the top 4 in women's tennis accounts for in relation to men's top 4........

irrespective of whatever no. of sets players on both sides play, tennis forum posters say that women's tennis is not far behind men's game as far as generating revenue is concerned........
Interesting.
Would love to see the numbers that back this up.
Tennis forum posters don't always rely on facts to formulate opinions.
I know I didn't. ;-()
CONK da ball!!!

Offline propstoart

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2012, 10:40:09 AM »
I say make/let the girls play the slams in the best-of-5 sets format.. This way, the pay/play inequality issue between the sexes will be solved. Also, this could convince some more of the ladies to cut short their points by developing variations to the dominant baseline game..

The 5-set format  tests the true mental strength of the players - ain't nothing like being 2 sets down in a GS final to test the temperament of a player.. That is why the greatest match Roger played was the Wimbledon final of 2008 - even though he lost it, because he dug deep to hang on when to give up hope would have been the easy way out.. That is why Roger is the champ he is !! Same for Nole and Rafa and Murray.. The stories they have scripted will be remembered for intensity and length of their duels..

What every sports fan wants to see from his idol/hero is the max. effort ("leaving it all on the court").. I can't fathom how that can be possible in a regular 3-set match..

On a side note, I don't know how anybody is going to convince the women to agree to this when most ladies can't get off the court fast enough, when they see Serena ready to unleash, on the other side of the net!!

Offline Rafa816

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2012, 11:09:54 AM »
I say make/let the girls play the slams in the best-of-5 sets format.. This way, the pay/play inequality issue between the sexes will be solved. Also, this could convince some more of the ladies to cut short their points by developing variations to the dominant baseline game..

The 5-set format  tests the true mental strength of the players - ain't nothing like being 2 sets down in a GS final to test the temperament of a player.. That is why the greatest match Roger played was the Wimbledon final of 2008 - even though he lost it, because he dug deep to hang on when to give up hope would have been the easy way out.. That is why Roger is the champ he is !! Same for Nole and Rafa and Murray.. The stories they have scripted will be remembered for intensity and length of their duels..

What every sports fan wants to see from his idol/hero is the max. effort ("leaving it all on the court").. I can't fathom how that can be possible in a regular 3-set match..

On a side note, I don't know how anybody is going to convince the women to agree to this when most ladies can't get off the court fast enough, when they see Serena ready to unleash, on the other side of the net!!

And when they're already getting equal prize money for less effort.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline Alex

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2012, 12:29:12 PM »
this has been discussed to death. girls can get even more money than man. I'm not the one paying them so I don't really care. what really bother me is that except Serena (and she doesn't even care to be #1, nor to play mandatory tournaments)  there are not real champions and I find the whole WTA thing a complete mess. Kvitova, Azarenka, 'Screamarenka' , Radwanska.... it just a joke. It is so not competitive.  :\

Offline propstoart

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2012, 12:36:09 PM »
Some lady legends I've heard argue that, while the women might be on court for lesser time than the men, the WTA's 'product' is worth the same money. In the Indian film industry, the top men earn way more than the leading ladies..  :)~

Also, this argument (comparing pro tennis to entertainment) justifies the 'objectification' of women athletes, that feminists are always complaining about.. The tennis on the women's variety is now all about the bizarre, (dis)colorful costumes, not so much the play, athleticism, courage, skills etc.. I appreciate female pulchritude as much as the next guy, but professional sports is serious business, right  :( :(

Offline TigerTim

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2012, 03:14:38 PM »
Of course not.

Offline Clay Death

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2012, 09:37:38 PM »
they outlive men on the average by 15 years. and they are much stronger than you might believe.
 
stop shortchanging women. they can play best of 5 sets.
 
make them play best of 5 sets foremats at slams also. then there will be no talk of this equal pay.
 
 

Offline Start da Game

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2012, 03:22:23 AM »
suppose men's tennis is reduced to best of 3 sets in slams, will they be able to generate just as much money as now?
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline propstoart

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2012, 03:48:05 AM »
That's a question I would like answered, as well.. The best-of-3 sets is not too dissimilar to the tournaments all year around.. Sports like cricket are increasing their TV popularity by shortening the format from 50-overs to 20-overs a side.. Will tennis look to follow suit.. The GS event organisers are always in hot water over ruined schedules owing to weather/extra-long encounters etc.. Maybe they will use this excuse to shorten the matches on the men's side as well.. If the sponsors are not convinced, maybe, the men can be persuaded to play in briefs on court to raise the 'profile' of their sport..  :\
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 03:49:25 AM by propstoart »

Offline ashwin#1

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2012, 04:01:33 AM »
i believe whoever performs better must get better bucks. & i think most will agree that mens tennis is miles ahead of womens tennis..
However, at times it feels sexist when womens get paid less than men inspite of performing better..


rafa816 :  this is a great topic for debate..thanks for opening this up !!!
I have to disagree on one of ur points..where u said :
ook to the record books. The longest women's match ever in a slam took 4 hours and 44 minutes. There have been 11 matches in men's slam history that have taken over 5 hours. As compared to 0 in women's slam history. The longest match in women's slam history, as in longest ever, completely ridiculous, was equivalent to a tiring marathon for a guy's match. But not anywhere near the longest in history.

You completely ignored the fact that the longest match for womens was on a best of 3 sets GS match..while those of men were of best of 5 sets..if u look at longest match for best of 3 sets for mens, there will be only a handful of matches ...


My take : if womens feel they should get equal prize money, they should change their match setup to best of 5 sets..( or at least the semis or finals should be best of 5 sets..)

But i wonder whether anyone would like to watch womens tennis in a best of 5 sets match /???
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Offline oracle86

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2012, 07:26:22 AM »
Look to the record books. The longest women's match ever in a slam took 4 hours and 44 minutes. There have been 11 matches in men's slam history that have taken over 5 hours. As compared to 0 in women's slam history. The longest match in women's slam history, as in longest ever, completely ridiculous, was equivalent to a tiring marathon for a guy's match. But not anywhere near the longest in history.

You completely ignored the fact that the longest match for womens was on a best of 3 sets GS match..while those of men were of best of 5 sets..if u look at longest match for best of 3 sets for mens, there will be only a handful of matches ...


Actually, that match b/w Schiavone & Kuznetsova in the 2011 Australian Open is longer than any men's best of 3 sets match.

The longest men's match is the Federer-Del Potro Olympics semi, which took just 4 hours and 26 minutes; while the Nadal-Djokovic Madrid 2009 semifinal was a measly 4 hours and 3 minutes long match.  :))

While browsing through an article in Wikipedia, I came across this astounding match:

The longest women's match (by time) took place at a tournament in Richmond, Virginia, in 1984, when Vicki Nelson took 6 hours, 31 minutes to defeat Jean Hepner 64, 76(119). The match featured a 29-minute, 643-shot rally, the longest in professional tennis history.  :scared:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/23/sports/tennis/24tennis.html?_r=1

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From 1984 to 1998, the WTA Tour Championships final was best of 5 sets, making it the only tournament on the women's tour to have a best-of-five-set match at any round of the competition. In 1999, the final reverted to being a best-of-three-set match, as had been the case from 19711983. These are possibly the only 5 set matches in women's tennis:
1990    Monica Seles d. Gabriela Sabatini 64, 57, 36, 64, 62
1995    Steffi Graf d. Anke Huber 61, 26, 61, 46, 63
1996    Steffi Graf d. Martina Hingis 63, 46, 60, 46, 60
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 02:10:27 PM by oracle86 »
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Offline propstoart

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2012, 08:46:57 AM »
Thanks, Oracle foe enlightening us about the ability of the women to play long matches on the big stage.. I wonder why the WTF was returned to its best-of-3-setsa format in 1991? Steffi & Monica proved it that 3-sets or 5, the cream will rise to the top..

Offline Dallas

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2012, 01:38:31 PM »
I like the best of 5 for the men in slams.  Slams are "different" (in importance and points), so there should be SOMETHING different in the slams than regular tournaments. 

Same as the Master's events to me.  I wish they would go back to the best of five for the final.  Right now - a master's event is really almost just like regular events.

For the women...I wish SOMETHING was different in the slams than in regular tournaments - whether it's a best of five for the final - or something.  Right now, the women's regular tournament win is no different than the grand slam as far as the structure of the event. 

I think the women could handle best of five for a grand slam FINAL.  That's better than what we have right now.

But as a female - I really don't think it's fair that the men and women get the same amount but the men have to work extra hard starting from round 1. I know if it was reversed and the men only had to play best of 3 whereas the women had to play best of five and they all got the same amount - I'm sure the females would be upset at the men. 

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2012, 04:47:49 PM »
I like the best of 5 for the men in slams.  Slams are "different" (in importance and points), so there should be SOMETHING different in the slams than regular tournaments. 

Same as the Master's events to me.  I wish they would go back to the best of five for the final.  Right now - a master's event is really almost just like regular events.

For the women...I wish SOMETHING was different in the slams than in regular tournaments - whether it's a best of five for the final - or something.  Right now, the women's regular tournament win is no different than the grand slam as far as the structure of the event. 

I think the women could handle best of five for a grand slam FINAL.  That's better than what we have right now.

But as a female - I really don't think it's fair that the men and women get the same amount but the men have to work extra hard starting from round 1. I know if it was reversed and the men only had to play best of 3 whereas the women had to play best of five and they all got the same amount - I'm sure the females would be upset at the men.
My head explodes just thinking about it! :ranting:
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Offline Swish

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2012, 08:20:07 PM »
Let the woman play five. They can do it.
 
But I don't know if I could stand a couple of screamers for 5 sets. Let it just be best of three and let sleeping dogs be.

Offline propstoart

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Re: Slams: Should Women Get Equal Prize Money
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2012, 01:29:49 AM »
Swish, you have a point - the prolonged shrieking could turn off the audience..
However, I'm pretty sure the girls could not keep up the screaming in an elongated affair - they would be too tired..  :whistle: