Author Topic: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal  (Read 7774 times)

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Offline Emma

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #80 on: December 27, 2012, 06:22:15 PM »
I just want to go on the record and say that I have nothing against Masterclass but only disagree with his initial post entirely. That's all.

Anyway, Nadal's 3 win over Nole on clay, his favourite surface does not qualify his dominance over Nole when Nole had already won majority of their encounters since 2011 on different surfaces.

Here's a look at their H2H. The difference is only 5 matches but you must keep in mind that Nole turned pro a few years after Nadal, so it's not a very even competition to begin with, but it is still only of the most competitive H2H Nadal has against anyone given their very close rankings over the years.

The overall H2H: 19-14 Nadal

Clay: 12-2 Nadal (not too surprising there given that Nadal pretty much rules that surface)

Grass: 2-1 Nadal (but Nole has the final win over Nadal at Wimbledon just last year)

Hard: 11-5 Nole (Nole pretty much dominates Nadal on hard)

Now, the fact that at least 40% of the tournaments are played on Hard, and the fact that the majority of the tournaments were yet to play in 2012, when Nadal decided to take a break from tennis after he was ousted by Rosol at Wimbledon, it would be pretty ignorant to deduct that Nadal would have dominated on HARD court over Nole as well - based on those 3 matches on clay only. We know very well who took both Andy and Federer out of Barclays just this year only a couple of months ago. Never also mind the fact that, Nadal is pretty worn out by that time of the year anyway given his very taxing game - all part of the process mind you.

Also, how do you guarantee  a win over Nole on grass when he went out to a player named Rosol, who btw was ranked 100 at that time, in the 2nd round of Wimbledon? Wasn't that a sure indication as to where Nadal's form was outside clay at that time?
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Offline Alex

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #81 on: December 27, 2012, 06:30:00 PM »
Shank is delusional in this thread all together, but my feeling is he does it on purpose .... I thought FFF was bad then I realize he is pretty smart. I know that Shank is smart too, just likes to talk sh!t from time to time (he is not as bad as Emma tho, and I'm guilty as charged  :gleam::rofl_2:

I want to see Shank/Mimi and FFF/Dallas in mixed doubles at Wimbledon next year. Emma and I will be sitting in the Queens lounge ... the only problem is we need to teach Emma how to use her fork and not eat strawberries with her fingers  :Alien: :ninja: :yikes:

Offline mav140

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #82 on: December 28, 2012, 03:50:49 AM »
Shank is delusional in this thread all together, but my feeling is he does it on purpose .... I thought FFF was bad then I realize he is pretty smart. I know that Shank is smart too, just likes to talk sh!t from time to time (he is not as bad as Emma tho, and I'm guilty as charged  :gleam::rofl_2:

I want to see Shank/Mimi and FFF/Dallas in mixed doubles at Wimbledon next year. Emma and I will be sitting in the Queens lounge ... the only problem is we need to teach Emma how to use her fork and not eat strawberries with her fingers  :Alien: :ninja: :yikes:

Yeah, about Shank: My feelings exactly... He MUST be doing it on purpose just to juice of the forum and keep us interested.. However, There are a couple of people (me one of them) that even though it is made un purpose I just can't stand listening to this crap1!! LOOL  :gleam: - So, I am guilty on falling into his game! :))

Anyway, it is still nice to discuss and have something to talk about, even though some posts even get me on my nerves by the crap that's being said...  :gleam:

Offline Gawdblessya

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #83 on: December 28, 2012, 09:15:22 AM »
Lol!  Having read some of the comments here, I see nothing much changes on this board!   :rofl_2:

Iím assuming that the thread title is meant to invite / provoke a reaction & start up a debate, rather than to be taken at face value.

Prior to Wimbledon 2012 & his subsequent absence,  Nadal did very well this year. He was the finalist at the AO & the 7th time winner at the FO. He played 3 slams & was in the finals of 2 of them, one on a hard court, at the AO.   Therefore, anyone denying that Nadal's absence due to injury is very much a factor to be considered when evaluating the performance of the other top 4 players, should think again.  To say that he is less than excellent on hard courts & on that basis, to write him off as a possible contender for the USO 2012 title, had he played it,  is somewhat blinkered in my view. Had he played it, I would expect him to have done very well there. He was, after all, the finalist there in 2011.

However, that said, anyone denying the overall supremacy of Djokovic in 2012, is wide of the mark. He has had an excellent tour this year, maintained an outstanding consistency & is rightly world number one.  He is, quite simply, the man to beat.  He was the champion at the AO, the finalist at the FO & the USO & a semi-finalist at Wimbledon.  He has had an excellent ATP record this year, and is deservedly the number one ranked player.  Without question, he tops the list for best player of 2012.  Following his superb year in 2011,  he is in fact the best player for the last 2 years.

Murray is next as the 2nd best player of 2012.   He reached the semi's at the AO , the final at Wimbledon & won the USO. Add to that his Olympic Gold win after beating Djokovic & Federer to win the top medal. He ends the year as world number 3.  A remarkable year for Murray.

Next, at number 3 for 2012, I put Federer.  Reaching the semi's at the AO, FO & USO, he won his 7th Wimbledon title and with it, regained number one ranking. His record number of weeks as world number one is a remarkable achievement. He has also had a good ATP tour season. He won the Olympic silver medal, and finishes the year, deservedly, as world number 2.  To have achieved all this at this stage in his career is particularly noteworthy.   

So for me, Nadal finishes the year in the 4th best achiever position, correctly reflected in his ranking spot. Of course his injury plays a part in this - but fitness is part & parcel of achievement and it would be remiss to diminish the achievements of his peers because he had to sit out part of the year.  As far as I'm concerned, asterisks don't exist, and each player deserves what he achieves.

The most important outcome this year was that, after several years of domination by one or another player, there are 4 different GS winners, and each of the top 4 players has achieved something remarkable in his career.  This makes it one of the most exciting tennis years for a while, and I hope it will be even more exciting next year.
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Offline Start da Game

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #84 on: December 28, 2012, 10:08:56 AM »
nadal was unstoppable before wimbledon........he was only going to get better and better had the injury not taken place.........he made finals of wimbledon and us open last year playing at 50% of full capacity........imagine what he would have done this year playing at a relatively higher level.........

@emma

the clay argument doesn't hold water........nadal lost to djokovic on the same clay in 2011........there is no excuse for losses on clay.........why is it that people always exclude clay when no nadal fan ever excluded hardcourts from the discussions? tennis is played on clay as well........clay is the ultimate surface in tennis........

Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline Start da Game

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #85 on: December 28, 2012, 10:12:34 AM »
Shank is delusional in this thread all together, but my feeling is he does it on purpose .... I thought FFF was bad then I realize he is pretty smart. I know that Shank is smart too, just likes to talk sh!t from time to time (he is not as bad as Emma tho, and I'm guilty as charged  :gleam::rofl_2:

I want to see Shank/Mimi and FFF/Dallas in mixed doubles at Wimbledon next year. Emma and I will be sitting in the Queens lounge ... the only problem is we need to teach Emma how to use her fork and not eat strawberries with her fingers  :Alien: :ninja: :yikes:

Yeah, about Shank: My feelings exactly... He MUST be doing it on purpose just to juice of the forum and keep us interested.. However, There are a couple of people (me one of them) that even though it is made un purpose I just can't stand listening to this crap1!! LOOL  :gleam: - So, I am guilty on falling into his game! :))

Anyway, it is still nice to discuss and have something to talk about, even though some posts even get me on my nerves by the crap that's being said...  :gleam:

whatever i said is very simple........i think masterclass's post is quite right.........he explained it very well........i myself did not think about rafa(or any player for that matter) being the best of 2012 until i read the opening post of this thread.........

Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline Alex

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #86 on: December 28, 2012, 03:37:18 PM »
Shank is delusional in this thread all together, but my feeling is he does it on purpose .... I thought FFF was bad then I realize he is pretty smart. I know that Shank is smart too, just likes to talk sh!t from time to time (he is not as bad as Emma tho, and I'm guilty as charged  :gleam::rofl_2:

I want to see Shank/Mimi and FFF/Dallas in mixed doubles at Wimbledon next year. Emma and I will be sitting in the Queens lounge ... the only problem is we need to teach Emma how to use her fork and not eat strawberries with her fingers  :Alien: :ninja: :yikes:

Yeah, about Shank: My feelings exactly... He MUST be doing it on purpose just to juice of the forum and keep us interested.. However, There are a couple of people (me one of them) that even though it is made un purpose I just can't stand listening to this crap1!! LOOL  :gleam: - So, I am guilty on falling into his game! :))

Anyway, it is still nice to discuss and have something to talk about, even though some posts even get me on my nerves by the crap that's being said...  :gleam:

whatever i said is very simple........i think masterclass's post is quite right.........he explained it very well........i myself did not think about rafa(or any player for that matter) being the best of 2012 until i read the opening post of this thread.........
Nole was the best player in 2012. just except it and breath.  :)~....

do you want me to be stupid a little bit. yeah, I can use some reverse logic too. Nole should have won RG if it wasn't for that rain delay. Nole should have won the USO if it wasn't for that stupid wind. Nole should have won W because Alex wanted him to do so  :))
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 06:12:56 PM by Alex »

Offline Clay Death

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #87 on: December 28, 2012, 05:38:21 PM »
i predicted this 2 days ago. i am not surprised.

Offline Emma

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #88 on: December 30, 2012, 09:27:18 AM »
nadal was unstoppable before wimbledon........he was only going to get better and better had the injury not taken place.........he made finals of wimbledon and us open last year playing at 50% of full capacity........imagine what he would have done this year playing at a relatively higher level.........

@emma

the clay argument doesn't hold water........nadal lost to djokovic on the same clay in 2011........there is no excuse for losses on clay.........why is it that people always exclude clay when no nadal fan ever excluded hardcourts from the discussions? tennis is played on clay as well........clay is the ultimate surface in tennis........

No one is excluding clay out. It's you who's basing the best player argument based on 3 tournaments that was played on clay, when this supposedly best player didn't even play rest of the tournaments after Wimbledon. It's not as if he was injured at Wimbledon, therefore he had to withdraw but he was soundly beaten by a player ranked 100 at that time. It's as straight forward as this. If we go back a couple of months before, I see Nole winning a hard-court Major over Nadal on the same year, which was Nole's favourite surface btw, but you are not counting that. So why should only those wins count when there were a series of tournaments had to be played and it was more than likely that if these two were to face off, Nole was going to come on top given the surface? So it's not the clay argument that doesn't hold water but it's the whole stupid argument that masterclass made in the first place that holds nothing. Not a thing. It is in fact a very childish statement on his part.
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Offline Emma

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #89 on: December 30, 2012, 09:33:17 AM »
All in all, Nadal is a great player but he has to prove it too year in year out by playing tournaments and winning them. If he's not there then you can't make arguments in his favour as one has no way of proving it. It has to be played out in order for us to deduct anything. This should be the method but not some assumptions. It feels fair this way or else it wouldn't have happened this way.
You are everything I am not.

Offline Alex

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #90 on: December 30, 2012, 05:48:35 PM »
All in all, Nadal is a great player but he has to prove it too year in year out by playing tournaments and winning them. If he's not there then you can't make arguments in his favour as one has no way of proving it. It has to be played out in order for us to deduct anything. This should be the method but not some assumptions. It feels fair this way or else it wouldn't have happened this way.
you are a great player too, but you need to prove it to me  :rasta:

Offline Emma

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #91 on: December 30, 2012, 08:57:49 PM »
If you think I am playing then think again, darling.  :ice cream:
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Offline Alex

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #92 on: December 31, 2012, 12:01:26 AM »
If you think I am playing then think again, darling.  :ice cream:
I do not think, I know. I hope you learn the difference one day  :ice cream:

btw, you look beautiful tonight  :james-bond:

Offline Emma

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #93 on: December 31, 2012, 10:34:24 PM »
Alex, I am finally done with you. I thought I'd let you know. All the best.
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Offline Alex

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #94 on: December 31, 2012, 10:50:58 PM »
Alex, I am finally done with you. I thought I'd let you know. All the best.
but, but ... I worship you here 100 times more than Fed is worshiped by Dallas and you do this to me. fine I don't love you any more either, I adore you like a Goddess ... don't leave me, it may cause some serious mental issues (I mean I have them already, as you know, just don't make things worse  :))

« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 02:08:12 PM by Alex »

Offline mav140

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #95 on: January 01, 2013, 07:10:25 AM »
You guys need to talk things over... I wouldn't want to see a couple split up like this.. LOL..


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Offline mav140

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Re: Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #96 on: January 01, 2013, 07:12:28 AM »
nadal was unstoppable before wimbledon........he was only going to get better and better had the injury not taken place.........he made finals of wimbledon and us open last year playing at 50% of full capacity........imagine what he would have done this year playing at a relatively higher level.........

@emma

the clay argument doesn't hold water........nadal lost to djokovic on the same clay in 2011........there is no excuse for losses on clay.........why is it that people always exclude clay when no nadal fan ever excluded hardcourts from the discussions? tennis is played on clay as well........clay is the ultimate surface in tennis........

No one is excluding clay out. It's you who's basing the best player argument based on 3 tournaments that was played on clay, when this supposedly best player didn't even play rest of the tournaments after Wimbledon. It's not as if he was injured at Wimbledon, therefore he had to withdraw but he was soundly beaten by a player ranked 100 at that time. It's as straight forward as this. If we go back a couple of months before, I see Nole winning a hard-court Major over Nadal on the same year, which was Nole's favourite surface btw, but you are not counting that. So why should only those wins count when there were a series of tournaments had to be played and it was more than likely that if these two were to face off, Nole was going to come on top given the surface? So it's not the clay argument that doesn't hold water but it's the whole stupid argument that masterclass made in the first place that holds nothing. Not a thing. It is in fact a very childish statement on his part.
Couldn't have said it better... Nadal wasn't unstoppable before Wimbledon, he only won what was expected of him... CLLAY SEASON

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Offline Swish

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #97 on: January 01, 2013, 12:56:24 PM »
Alex, I am finally done with you. I thought I'd let you know. All the best.

Thank you.  :cool:
 
Start the new year right and stop infiltrating all the threads with this back and forth banter.  ://
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 12:57:04 PM by swish »

Online Babblelot

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #98 on: January 02, 2013, 01:08:05 AM »
This thread is troll worthy.
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Offline Alex

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Re: The Best Player of 2012: Rafael Nadal
« Reply #99 on: January 02, 2013, 02:28:28 AM »
This thread is troll worthy.
sure it is. where the heck have you been?