Topic: Who Will Make It To The Final From The Top Half?

[Freak3yman84]

With Djokovic playing a super long match yesterday, the whole plot changes. Surely he won't be 100% against Berdych, so a loss is probable. Even if he does make it through Berdych, it won't be easy and he'll have very little left for the SF. This leaves Ferrer with his best chance at a GS Final. As for Almagro, the story with him and Ferrer likely won't change. If it happens to be Berdych-Ferrer in the SF, then Ferrer has a great chance with his experience and 6-3 H2H against Berdych.

This is one of the more interesting situations we've had in a long time at a Grand Slam.

Discuss.

[Babblelot]

Disagree the the length of the match will impact Nole. He's incredibly fit and has proven that he can do this back to back. That being said, as GBY noted and anyone watching could attest to, Nole played like crap. His FH broke down time and again and his ROS was pedestrian. What was on display, however, was his heart and mind of a champion.  That's what will carry the day.

I'm still picking Nole.



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[Freak3yman84]

Disagree the the length of the match will impact Nole. He's incredibly fit and has proven that he can do this back to back. That being said, as GBY noted and anyone watching could attest to, Nole played like crap. His FH broke down time and again and his ROS was pedestrian. What was on display, however, was his heart and mind of a champion.  That's what will carry the day.

I'm still picking Nole.



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I'm not sure if we've seen Djokovic contest a match THIS long (last year's final is irrelevant because he didn't have to play another match.) This kind of marathon early on could really affect Djoko, and Berdych winning in straights doesn't help his cause. Don't be surprised with a Berdych win, but don't expect it either

[Tennis4you]

I think Nole could be stiff at first but I think he will be ok.  He will rest up and heal quickly

[Freak3yman84]

I think Nole could be stiff at first but I think he will be ok.  He will rest up and heal quickly

Berdych might be able to trouble him more than he would've had Djoko played less.

[Babblelot]

Disagree the the length of the match will impact Nole. He's incredibly fit and has proven that he can do this back to back. That being said, as GBY noted and anyone watching could attest to, Nole played like crap. His FH broke down time and again and his ROS was pedestrian. What was on display, however, was his heart and mind of a champion.  That's what will carry the day.

I'm still picking Nole.



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I'm not sure if we've seen Djokovic contest a match THIS long (last year's final is irrelevant because he didn't have to play another match.) This kind of marathon early on could really affect Djoko, and Berdych winning in straights doesn't help his cause. Don't be surprised with a Berdych win, but don't expect it either

How quickly we forget!! See 2012 SF Djokovic-Murray then rethink your thread.

[Freak3yman84]

Disagree the the length of the match will impact Nole. He's incredibly fit and has proven that he can do this back to back. That being said, as GBY noted and anyone watching could attest to, Nole played like crap. His FH broke down time and again and his ROS was pedestrian. What was on display, however, was his heart and mind of a champion.  That's what will carry the day.

I'm still picking Nole.



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I'm not sure if we've seen Djokovic contest a match THIS long (last year's final is irrelevant because he didn't have to play another match.) This kind of marathon early on could really affect Djoko, and Berdych winning in straights doesn't help his cause. Don't be surprised with a Berdych win, but don't expect it either

How quickly we forget!! See 2012 SF Djokovic-Murray then rethink your thread.

64 games > 52 games

Rethink that argument then

[Babblelot]

Dude, you're not good at this.

Djokovic beat Murray in 4:50 then backed it up with a win over Nadal in 5:53. This happened just last year.

[Freak3yman84]

Dude, you're not good at this.

Djokovic beat Murray in 4:50 then backed it up with a win over Nadal in 5:53. This happened just last year.

Again, Murray match was shorter. And it's not like history will always repeat itself anyway.

You're not very good at this

[Babblelot]

 

OK, enjoy your time here, kid.

[Freak3yman84]

OK, enjoy your time here, kid.

Personally insulting someone, a true sign of a loss of an argument.

[sid]

Im going to go with Nole ATM,but if Ferrer keeps winning in stright sets i could change my mind.Ferrer has to think to himself he will never have a better chance to make a Slam Final.

[huntingyou]

Novak is the fittest guy on tour, yesterday's match took place in the 4th round which gives him two more matches before the final to recuperate or waste his reserves.


Having watched last year SF-Final, I see no reason to be worry for Novak. Another 4+ hour match BEFORE the final could be detrimental of course, but only if he were to face Murray.


For the record, Ferrer has ZERO chance to beat Novak..........Birdman it's the only obstacle; but if I was a betting man, smart money says Novak in straights.

[Gawdblessya]

Djokovic needed a good challenge - and he got it in the Wawrinka match.  Instead of depleting him, I feel that it will have boosted him & he will have learned from it to "tweak" any chinks in the armour & hone his focus.  He'll want to get the QF with Berdych over as quickly as possible & avoid lingering on court.  I expect him to win in straight sets.

And I can't see Ferrer getting past Djokovic either. In fact, I expect Djokovic to win this title.

   

[Freak3yman84]

Novak is the fittest guy on tour, yesterday's match took place in the 4th round which gives him two more matches before the final to recuperate or waste his reserves.


Having watched last year SF-Final, I see no reason to be worry for Novak. Another 4+ hour match BEFORE the final could be detrimental of course, but only if he were to face Murray.


For the record, Ferrer has ZERO chance to beat Novak..........Birdman it's the only obstacle; but if I was a betting man, smart money says Novak in straights.

This is a bizarre statement. Why would someone who is 1-11 on Djokovic (and never beaten him on HC) be more of an obstacle than someone who is 5-9 on Djokovic (with a HC win)? This makes no sense to me.

Djokovic needed a good challenge - and he got it in the Wawrinka match.  Instead of depleting him, I feel that it will have boosted him & he will have learned from it to "tweak" any chinks in the armour & hone his focus.  He'll want to get the QF with Berdych over as quickly as possible & avoid lingering on court.  I expect him to win in straight sets.

And I can't see Ferrer getting past Djokovic either. In fact, I expect Djokovic to win this title.

You think a tired Djoko can defeat a relatively fresh Murray? Even if they were both fresh it'd be more or less a toss-up.

[huntingyou]

This is a bizarre statement. Why would someone who is 1-11 on Djokovic (and never beaten him on HC) be more of an obstacle than someone who is 5-9 on Djokovic (with a HC win)? This makes no sense to me.

There is nothing bizarre about my statement.....is pretty easy to be honest.

Berdych has the game and firepower of BOTH wings to beat anyone on a slow surface like the AO. H2H is a cute statistic and interesting to dwell in for the why and how; but this is a GS QF match.....the slate is clean as far as I'm concern.

In the other hand, Ferrer is the ultimate grinder with no weapons whatsoever and a mediocre serve that will have to kick and scream to hold serve against the best returner on tour.

Again, this is not a matter of H2H and whatnot; the fact is Thomas Berdych is the only obstacle left in Novak's path to a third consecutive final. Once Novak is in the final, odds will favor him over anybody. Having said that, if Novak get's extended again before the final then a potential match against Murray could spell trouble since the guy cab also run for  5 hours and has a return game second to Novak. 

[Freak3yman84]

There is nothing bizarre about my statement.....is pretty easy to be honest.

Berdych has the game and firepower of BOTH wings to beat anyone on a slow surface like the AO. H2H is a cute statistic and interesting to dwell in for the why and how; but this is a GS QF match.....the slate is clean as far as I'm concern.

In the other hand, Ferrer is the ultimate grinder with no weapons whatsoever and a mediocre serve that will have to kick and scream to hold serve against the best returner on tour.

Again, this is not a matter of H2H and whatnot; the fact is Thomas Berdych is the only obstacle left in Novak's path to a third consecutive final. Once Novak is in the final, odds will favor him over anybody. Having said that, if Novak get's extended again before the final then a potential match against Murray could spell trouble since the guy cab also run for  5 hours and has a return game second to Novak.

Why must a player have said "firepower" to defeat a top player? Ferrer, as you claim, has no "firepower", but as I said before he has beaten Djokovic 5 times! Berdych, however, has only beaten Djokovic once on a very fast surface that is nowhere near like the AO so this "firepower" is both irrelevant, and unnecessary to defeating a top player.

If anything, on a slow surface such as the AO having less "firepower" would actually HELP! Ferrer's 3-1 advantage to Djokovic on clay should explain that enough. Sure H2Hs don't prove everything, but they are contradictory to your blasé statement.

Now explain to me how having "firepower" would help more so on a slow surface, as opposed to a faster surface....

[huntingyou]

There is nothing bizarre about my statement.....is pretty easy to be honest.

Berdych has the game and firepower of BOTH wings to beat anyone on a slow surface like the AO. H2H is a cute statistic and interesting to dwell in for the why and how; but this is a GS QF match.....the slate is clean as far as I'm concern.

In the other hand, Ferrer is the ultimate grinder with no weapons whatsoever and a mediocre serve that will have to kick and scream to hold serve against the best returner on tour.

Again, this is not a matter of H2H and whatnot; the fact is Thomas Berdych is the only obstacle left in Novak's path to a third consecutive final. Once Novak is in the final, odds will favor him over anybody. Having said that, if Novak get's extended again before the final then a potential match against Murray could spell trouble since the guy cab also run for  5 hours and has a return game second to Novak.

Why must a player have said "firepower" to defeat a top player? Ferrer, as you claim, has no "firepower", but as I said before he has beaten Djokovic 5 times! Berdych, however, has only beaten Djokovic once on a very fast surface that is nowhere near like the AO so this "firepower" is both irrelevant, and unnecessary to defeating a top player.

If anything, on a slow surface such as the AO having less "firepower" would actually HELP! Ferrer's 3-1 advantage to Djokovic on clay should explain that enough. Sure H2Hs don't prove everything, but they are contradictory to your blasé statement.

Now explain to me how having "firepower" would help more so on a slow surface, as opposed to a faster surface....

Wow, you are one of those that argue for the sake of it?     

First:

Why must a player have said "firepower" to defeat a top player?

Those are your words, not mine.  I said Berdych has the firepower of both wings to beat ANY player and not just a top player. Clearly, Novak has step up his game at the GS in the last two years which is saying a lot because he was doing pretty well since 2007.

Novak's game toys with the perfect blend of defense and offense or at least he tries to. In the last two years, his improved physical conditioning and small technical improvements on his serve and and forehand has allow him to exploit this boundary to the very limit.

Which brings us to: what is needed to beat Novak on his best surface? And that is a player that can push the envelop with his own power, thus forcing Novak to defend a little too much instead of attacking.   Stan did just that a couple days ago.....firepower of both wings (especially backhand) strong first serve and the ability to keep Novak on his toes. Berdych can replicate this.....Ferrer CAN'T.

[Freak3yman84]

Wow, you are one of those that argue for the sake of it?     

First:

Why must a player have said "firepower" to defeat a top player?

Those are your words, not mine.  I said Berdych has the firepower of both wings to beat ANY player and not just a top player. Clearly, Novak has step up his game at the GS in the last two years which is saying a lot because he was doing pretty well since 2007.

Novak's game toys with the perfect blend of defense and offense or at least he tries to. In the last two years, his improved physical conditioning and small technical improvements on his serve and and forehand has allow him to exploit this boundary to the very limit.

Which brings us to: what is needed to beat Novak on his best surface? And that is a player that can push the envelop with his own power, thus forcing Novak to defend a little too much instead of attacking.   Stan did just that a couple days ago.....firepower of both wings (especially backhand) strong first serve and the ability to keep Novak on his hills. Berdych can replicate this.....Ferrer CAN'T.

Yes, I do tend to argue for the Fucsovics

Any piss in the pot,


Novak has one of the best defense games, so why would putting him on the defense magically make him lose? If anything, his offense struggles more (i.e volleys, overheads, INSANELY tentative shots when he has control). What he actually excels in is going from defense to offense because at that point he builds up momentum to put shots away. Such facts are proven with H2Hs (your favorite stats, no?)

H2H vs. Ferrer 9-5

H2H vs. Berdych 11-1 

H2H vs. Soderling 6-1

H2H vs. Wawrinka (Your sexual saviour who you claim has "firepower") 11-2

H2H vs. Cilic 7-0

H2H vs. Andrew "King of Pushing" Mandy 10-7

H2H vs. Pipsqueek "I'm only good on clay, and am a huge pusher" Fixandri 0-1 Ouch.... BURN!

H2H vs. Fabrice "Ima be pushin' 24/7" Santoro 1-1

H2H vs. Antony "Pushing till I'm 102 years old" Dupuis 0-1 

H2H vs. Carlos "Pushing on clay all day err'day" Moya 2-2

and last, but certainly not least.....


H2H vs. Rafito "Pushing is tennis, no?" N/Adull 14-19 





SO now try and convince me that Chokeovic can only be beaten with mindless ballbashing!

[huntingyou]

OK, enjoy your time here, kid.

I'll cosign this!