Topic: Suicide Tennis #9 - ATP MS1000 Indian Wells

[JayR]

Out on day 1

Bad luck Dylan.

[Litotes]

Out on day 1

Too bad IW is a really difficult one, though. 96-man draw with a two-day R1 in the US (where WCs are generally acceptable players) is about as difficult as you get in this competition. I'll be very happy if I survive day 2 and can start to use seeded players.

[Clash]

Becker
bu: llodra

[masterclass]

Day 2: Llodra
  BU: Gimeno-Traver

Respectfully,
masterclass

[JayR]

Day 3

Wawrinka
BU:Simon

[EnriqueIG8]

Day 2: Llodra
  BU: Gimeno-Traver

Respectfully,
masterclass

I'm sorry play already started at thay time.

[Litotes]

Ann is the only one left for day 3! Congratulations on your win, Ann Getting through R1 when all the seeds have byes are no picnic. Now go for the title 

[masterclass]

Day 2: Llodra
  BU: Gimeno-Traver

Respectfully,
masterclass

I'm sorry play already started at thay time.

I'm sorry, Sir Javier, but this is not true. Both of these matches didn't start till late. They were the last match of the day on their court. So it wasn't even close.

I feel that rule: "7. Picks will be acceptable until before the start of the FIRST match each day." has no reason to be so restrictive.

I think the rule should be amended to:  "Picks will be acceptable before the player picked starts his match."

Respectfully,
masterclass

[EnriqueIG8]

V

Day 2: Llodra
  BU: Gimeno-Traver

Respectfully,
masterclass

I'm sorry play already started at thay time.

I'm sorry, Sir Javier, but this is not true. Both of these matches didn't start till late. They were the last match of the day on their court. So it wasn't even close.

I feel that rule: "7. Picks will be acceptable until before the start of the FIRST match each day." has no reason to be so restrictive.

I think the rule should be amended to:  "Picks will be acceptable before the player picked starts his match."

Respectfully,
masterclass

Hi John. For now that's just the rule of the game. It's the rule on MTF and it's in the notes on the frontpage. I know those matches didn't start but play was already underway. On the OOP i always post what time the matches start so I'm sorry this pick doesn't count. I don't know what Markus thinks but if we are going to change this we should discuss and agree on this and not just post a late pick and then discuss it.

Maybe we can begin with this change in Miami.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[Freak3yman84]

If someone posts after play has started, it could give them an advantage

[Litotes]

V

Day 2: Llodra
  BU: Gimeno-Traver

Respectfully,
masterclass

I'm sorry play already started at thay time.

I'm sorry, Sir Javier, but this is not true. Both of these matches didn't start till late. They were the last match of the day on their court. So it wasn't even close.

I feel that rule: "7. Picks will be acceptable until before the start of the FIRST match each day." has no reason to be so restrictive.

I think the rule should be amended to:  "Picks will be acceptable before the player picked starts his match."

Respectfully,
masterclass

Hi John. For now that's just the rule of the game. It's the rule on MTF and it's in the notes on the frontpage. I know those matches didn't start but play was already underway. On the OOP i always post what time the matches start so I'm sorry this pick doesn't count. I don't know what Markus thinks but if we are going to change this we should discuss and agree on this and not just post a late pick and then discuss it.

Maybe we can begin with this change in Miami.

I symphatize with John, but honestly see no reason to change rule 7. I will accept being voted down if there is a consensus for change but this is my opinion.

If anyone know they will have problems logging on in time the next day it is perfectly acceptable to give more than one pick at a time. Especially in a tournament like this it is easy, since the next day doesn't depent on the present day. Yesterday I could have picked Johnson for day 2 and Wawrinka for day 3 simultaneously. Since Johnson lost, Wawrinka would not have got into play. Had Johnson won, though, I would now have been ready for day 4. I could also have picked day 4 when I was at it. Less chance of winning that way, you can't adapt to new happenings, but better than not playing at all.

[masterclass]

Holy tennis balls, Batman.  It's just common sense. This isn't FITD or a game where you are picking who gets the most # of aces during the day, where one needs to pick everything prior to the day or tournament starting.

If a specific match that you pick doesn't start until 7 pm.,  just how is someone gaining an advantage by picking at 1. 2 or 3 pm instead of 11 am (first match of the day)??  In this particular game, if anything it probably works against you to have to make your pick late. You become limited to which matches you can choose, and it can hurt strategy. 

Every betting site in the world that I know of allows one to pick the winner of a specific match as long as it hasn't started. Perhaps some have a 10 minute or 30 minute rule.  Even MTF vbetting allows this.

I understand that the current rule was previously posted in the rules for the game, and for this result, I'll abide by the posted rule, but I still believe it should be changed.

Sir Markus, I have explained why there is a reason to change it, yet you still see no reason to change it.  I still haven't heard a good reason why we need to keep it the way it is.  And one doesn't always know ahead of time that one will be unavailable.

Look, we have held contests at the MTF Castle a long time where we pick the later round's winners and sets and as long as you got your pick in before the match starts you were fine.  It was casual, we were pretty flexible.  I even remember letting one or two people place their picks shortly after a match started since they were still on serve.

People are in different time zones all over the world. We have lives. We try to participate in these contests when we remember, when we can.
Do we have so many people playing these games that we need to be so inflexible when it doesn't really matter?

Thanks for your consideration.

Respectfully,
masterclass

[Freak3yman84]

John, allow me to explain:

Let's use yesterday's OOP as an example:

Andujar vs Johnson
Blake vs Haase
Sock vs Karlovic
Becker vs Reynolds
Matosevic vs Robredo
Lu vs Smyczek
Giraldo vs Berlocq
Fognini vs Bedene
Tursunov vs Petzschner
Davydenko vs Mathieu
Munoz-de la Nava vs Llodra
Zeballos vs Ramos
Ebden vs Kuznetsov
Phau vs Falla
Lacko vs Gimeno-Traver
Donskoy vs Ito

So say someone is going to choose either Donskoy or Tursunov, but the Donskoy match don't start until later while the Tursunov match starts early. The Tursunov match starts, and finishes and Tursunov loses. So now you know you can't choose Tursunov, so it gives you have to choose Donskoy. You do that, and Donskoy wins. But you might have picked Tursunov had you not waited for his match to be completed 

Now I'm sure Javi would love to have your picks count, but it's just that the game doesn't allow that, and rightfully so. It is frustrating, I know, but there's no real fair way around it 

[masterclass]

I see what you are saying Sir Dylan, and sure that case exists, but the opposite is also true (The late pick is the loser).  On average, I think that might balance out during a single day's play.  But I would say that by and large, picking later would prevent me from going far in the tournament rather than help me.  My choices become limited the later I pick.  I might be forced to pick someone who might go later in the draw.

I could probably prove this mathematically, but it's really not worth it. . 
I guess I'm also trying to get the game masters to lighten up a bit.

But I've argued enough... I don't want to create bad feeling or problems.

Thanks for your response and consideration.

Respectfully,
masterclass

[EnriqueIG8]

I totally understand John's point of view. Let me say a couple of things about it.

Firstly, the pick he made yesterday is invalid for now (I'm sorry). You can't just post whenever you want to and then explain why there are flaws in the rules. For now rules are rules, and how annoying it may be, we can't count this pick as valid. And John, you are a very bright man so you could have read the rules before and asked us about this before you made the decision to post after the start of the first match. Hope you understand that too.

Secondly, in FITD you do indeed predict the entire draw but I don't know if you guys have played TT before or any 'tennisgame' on other forums where you have to pick daily picks (like this game). But in every daily pick game, also PAW/TT on MTF, you have to pick before the start of the first ATP's match otherwise they are invalid. I don't know why all of those game inventors decided to imply that rule but I guess everybody agreed back then. It's not only the point Dylan was making but also later in the tournament.

Say we'll grant this new rule, what happens if 2 persons are still left on let's say day 6. Djokovic plays Del Potro and Federer plays Berdych. Both persons still have to opportunity to pick both. Person A picks Federer, person B doesn't pick anyone. Federer loses the match and person B decides to pick Djokovic so he can win the Suicide Tennis of that week. There's another reason for sending your picks on time.


And although I do agree with the time differences, the OOP is posted here in time. Or else you can always check the OOP yourself, I think we can expect an adult on a tennis forum to find that him/herself. If an OOP is released (around 6PM local time) you still have 16 to 17 hours to make your pick (assuming play starts at 10/11am). I think that's more than enough time to send in your picks.


That's just my five cents. Let me know what you guys think about it.
And John, I hope you don't take this post wrong because I'm always open for your opinion, you know that. I hope you decide to still be playing this game no matter what the outcome of this discussion will be.

[Litotes]

Sir Markus, I have explained why there is a reason to change it, yet you still see no reason to change it.  I still haven't heard a good reason why we need to keep it the way it is.  And one doesn't always know ahead of time that one will be unavailable.

The main reason is one of complexity for the organizer. Currently all the organizer has to do to insure all picks are valid is compare posting time to a single deadline. Your suggestion would introduce multiple deadlines every day, and often deadlines that are not immediately available to everyone. "When did the match start, exactly? Daily schedule states it was the third match on CC....." This is likely to be a small task now, but if the number of players grow then it will fast become a bigger one. By keeping to the schedule the players makes the organizers task easier. I have understood it that we want this game to grow, and if so I feel it would be an advantage to have rules that will still be practical with many players.

There is also the cheating option. Imagine you pick for a winner the first player to be in action that day. He loses. What do you do? You delete your post and make a new one with a player that has yet to start. Now, of course, nobody thinks this is what you did, not for a second. But this is the principal reason for this topic being a non-discussion on MTF. Deleting posts are easy and leaves no trace.

I'm with you on the "No advantage to be late"-argument, though. If you consider picking Wawrinka but feel unsure about him and wait until after his match to pick, and he wins, then you're not in a better position than you were.

[JayR]

Day 4

Murray
BU:Nishikori

[JayR]

Ann is the only one left for day 3! Congratulations on your win, Ann Getting through R1 when all the seeds have byes are no picnic. Now go for the title 

Thanks Markus.  A certain amount of luck involved. But I'll take it. Lol!

Going back under my comfy blanket now as I'm full of a cold.  

[EnriqueIG8]

Congrats Ann!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[JayR]

Day 5

Nadal
BU:Paire

Thanks Javi. 
Back under the blanket.