Author Topic: Live ATP Rankings  (Read 7149 times)

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Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2013, 08:12:07 AM »
I have emailed ATP with the problems regarding this ranking problem and of course a few others I have detected. Gonna let you know of the answer the minute I get it back.

Offline sid

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2013, 02:31:42 PM »
Slasher,that's a Amazing job you've done with the ranking :cheer:

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2013, 01:42:35 AM »
Well, the ATP didn't respond to my email, but they fixed the problems they had with the rankings. Better than nothing in my book. :)~

Offline Clay Death

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2013, 01:48:39 AM »
well done general slasher.

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2013, 04:26:27 AM »
This will be the first place I announce that as of this week all tournament types have been live tested with the live rankings system and are functional 100%. This week, DC points are live and dropping off and it still remains interesting to see if Berdych and Ferrer are able to defend last year's points.

Thanks once again General CD, and thanks Sid. Also thanks again to everyone for your words, contributions  and encouragements in making this system what it is today. It's been 14 months of tedious work.

Offline tennisville

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2013, 05:19:59 AM »
what do you mean when you say you tested it ? how do you test it  :))

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2013, 05:27:21 AM »
what do you mean when you say you tested it ? how do you test it  :))

Well, it's an automatic live updater. I give it pdf files as input or have it download them from the ATP site or ITF and it updates player data after extracting the data and parsing it. If it does this in a correct manner, it's okay. But I've "live tested" as in, ran the application for one full year in all ATP tournaments and it has provided correct data after minor glitches were fixed.

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2013, 05:53:34 AM »
I'm going to give you a T4U message only, cause I consider MTF unworthy of this "awesomeness".

By now, you may know that following the link in the OP, you can access the "archive" containing all past official rankings, which basically helps you see exactly which points counted for each player at each official rankings Monday (unlike ATP). Unfortunately, this archive is limited to the first day when the automatic updater ran. But there's good news, with the help of patience, I may be able to build a backtracking sequence that will allow me to go "back in time" with the rankings and actually extract each official rankings from past Mondays. It will be most difficult, so wish me luck. :)~

Offline Litotes

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2013, 06:51:42 AM »
I'm going to give you a T4U message only, cause I consider MTF unworthy of this "awesomeness".

By now, you may know that following the link in the OP, you can access the "archive" containing all past official rankings, which basically helps you see exactly which points counted for each player at each official rankings Monday (unlike ATP). Unfortunately, this archive is limited to the first day when the automatic updater ran. But there's good news, with the help of patience, I may be able to build a backtracking sequence that will allow me to go "back in time" with the rankings and actually extract each official rankings from past Mondays. It will be most difficult, so wish me luck. :)~

Sounds great :)

How long back in time are you expecting to go?

I have a project for how many weeks various players have been ranked in various positions. Rankings before 1984 elude me, however. I don't suppose you'll go that far back, but do you know anything about the rankings back then? Besides what (insufficielt) information is listed on the ATP site?

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2013, 07:19:40 AM »
I can go back to 1973 with one condition. Knowing the number of points awarded back then for tournament rounds. That is probably extremely delicate to find out. For now, I think a more realistic number would be 2009 (LOL). First I need to achieve this, than see if I can muster the power to go back in previous ranking schemas.

I could use today's rankings for all, but we may see differences to the official rankings.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 07:22:39 AM by Slasher1985 »

Offline tennisville

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2013, 09:45:55 AM »
best of luck Slasher  :))

Offline FreakyGOAT > CD

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2013, 05:29:43 PM »
Sounds like a monumental task  Good luck though!

As for determining points for tournament rounds from awhile back, could it just be determined by this example:

Say you want to know how much reaching the third round of a Masters in 1992 yielded...

Then I could go to a player like: http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Co/J/Jim-S-Courier.aspx?t=pa&y=1992&m=s&e=404#

And then I could determine that reaching the third round of a Masters in 1992 yielded 35 points?
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Offline Orange Wombat

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2013, 06:43:20 PM »
Slasher, if you don't have the time, don't do it.  :) I think I speak for the majority when I say that none of us here are particularily interested or demanding of DETAILED historical rankings.

But if you really want to, go ahead  :))

Offline FreakyGOAT > CD

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2013, 06:59:41 PM »
Slasher, if you don't have the time, don't do it.  :) I think I speak for the majority when I say that none of us here are particularily interested or demanding of DETAILED historical rankings.

But if you really want to, go ahead  :))

 :no-no-no: I would actually like to see how many flaws there are in the ATP rankings listed for awhile back compared to what they should've been. I imagine they messed up a lot of times  :)) :))

Surely it's not something to be done in a day, do take your time though  :)) :))
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Offline Litotes

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2013, 02:03:50 AM »
Sounds like a monumental task  Good luck though!

As for determining points for tournament rounds from awhile back, could it just be determined by this example:

Say you want to know how much reaching the third round of a Masters in 1992 yielded...

Then I could go to a player like: http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Co/J/Jim-S-Courier.aspx?t=pa&y=1992&m=s&e=404#

And then I could determine that reaching the third round of a Masters in 1992 yielded 35 points?


Unfortunately, it's not as easy as that. Look here:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sa/P/Pete-Sampras.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=s&e=540
Look at the 90s. 803 for winning in 1999, 958 for winning in 1998, 912 for winning in 1997. Why so uneven numbers? You got bonus points for quality of opposition. They only phased out the bonus points in 2000, when Sampras duly got a nice, even 1000 points for his win.

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2013, 03:30:48 AM »
From what I was able to determine now:

From 1973 to 1989, an average points system was used, as in the number of yielded points was divided by the number of tournaments played. Bonus points were awarded for beating players ranked from X to Y.
From 1990 to 1999, a Best out of 14 system was used, Masters equivalent became mandatory along with GS and the average system was dropped. Bonus points were still awarded.
From 2000 to nowadays. Despite changes in the point counts, a Best out of 18 + WTF system was used, and the bonus points were dropped.

Now that I have the rules regarding all the systems used, I need to find out the values of ranking points for tournament categories for each year since 1973. Wikipedia is a bit helpful with the first years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Grand_Prix_%28tennis%29

But I need to know all the values. Anyone can help here?

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2013, 05:37:44 AM »
I've managed to build on some information regarding rankings between 1973 and 1985. I will share with all of you everything I have found upon my return next Monday. Until then, have a pleasant week and I hope the rankings don't stop updating. :whistle:

Offline FreakyGOAT > CD

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2013, 08:12:57 AM »
Unfortunately, it's not as easy as that. Look here:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sa/P/Pete-Sampras.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=s&e=540
Look at the 90s. 803 for winning in 1999, 958 for winning in 1998, 912 for winning in 1997. Why so uneven numbers? You got bonus points for quality of opposition. They only phased out the bonus points in 2000, when Sampras duly got a nice, even 1000 points for his win.


 :scared: :scared: Is there any way to find out how they determined quality of opposition?  :zipped:
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Offline Litotes

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Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2013, 04:58:58 PM »
Unfortunately, it's not as easy as that. Look here:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sa/P/Pete-Sampras.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=s&e=540
Look at the 90s. 803 for winning in 1999, 958 for winning in 1998, 912 for winning in 1997. Why so uneven numbers? You got bonus points for quality of opposition. They only phased out the bonus points in 2000, when Sampras duly got a nice, even 1000 points for his win.


 :scared: :scared: Is there any way to find out how they determined quality of opposition?  :zipped:


Well, yes, they gave bonus points according to ranking intervals. xx points for a top-x player, yy for top-y and so on. These intervals can surely be found. I believe I even have the latest version on my PC somewhere, but I am not sure where. Probably another file saved with a not very helpful filename....made sense at the time, less so several years later.

Offline FreakyGOAT > CD

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Re: Re: Live ATP Rankings
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2013, 05:14:57 PM »
Unfortunately, it's not as easy as that. Look here:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sa/P/Pete-Sampras.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=s&e=540
Look at the 90s. 803 for winning in 1999, 958 for winning in 1998, 912 for winning in 1997. Why so uneven numbers? You got bonus points for quality of opposition. They only phased out the bonus points in 2000, when Sampras duly got a nice, even 1000 points for his win.


 :scared: :scared: Is there any way to find out how they determined quality of opposition?  :zipped:


Well, yes, they gave bonus points according to ranking intervals. xx points for a top-x player, yy for top-y and so on. These intervals can surely be found. I believe I even have the latest version on my PC somewhere, but I am not sure where. Probably another file saved with a not very helpful filename....made sense at the time, less so several years later.


I'm actually surprised they're available, and I do the same thing where I lose files because I randomly name them :lol:
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