Poll

Is ATP slowly turning into WTA? (aka is tennis becoming one-dimensional?

Yes
6 (60%)
No
4 (40%)

Total Members Voted: 10

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Offline Lugburz

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Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« on: March 31, 2013, 02:04:55 PM »
I might sound a bit selfish, but to me tennis is slowly dying.

I had many alternatives when my fave players retired in the past, but when my favorite players retire soonish, I really have doubts that tennis for me will become very uninteresting.

Luckily I had Tommy still playing after Henman retired. But that was the time I really enjoyed tennis, watching other players like Sampras, Rafter, Safin, Agassi, even clay specialist Kuerten, etc etc..

Now its all about fitness and who can endure more grinding.
More and more youngsters turning into robots playing same points over and over again. There's really limited variety today.
And those who can play all around and various game, are old players.

Slowing down courts is another example of how difficult for new players is to lean more to the all around play.

It feels like I just might lose interest in tennis after Haas retires, being probably the last guy on tour who has the ultimate all around game.
It just feels sad, but it is also true.

What could be done to avoid ATP turning into WTA?
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Offline FreakyGOAT > CD

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 02:09:40 PM »
It's going through a rough patch indeed. What I would suggest for you is to follow smaller tournaments. Like 250's and Challengers. There you see people who can't quite break through, but you still see some damn interesting games  :))


At a high level, you mostly see Ferrer, Murray, Nadal, Djokovic kind of slugfests.


I'd say in a few years they'll speed up courts (or make more grass tourneys), which will allow new exciting players to rise up  :)
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Online Babblelot

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2013, 02:12:37 PM »
Yeah, I've said before that big babe, brainless ball bashing is only a problem when women do it. When that's the men's A-game, for some reason, it's awesome!!!

The men's game has certainly morphed into a more athletic version of the women's game in recent years, and I started raising the red flag back then.
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, 02:40:34 PM »
I do believe bringing back the speed of courts at its regular, and making more grass tours will improve variety enormously. And it could be a step in the right direction.

Freak, yeah I watch a lot of smaller tours, recently I watched Sijsling vs Haas and I was so impressed by his play. But that's not the point, there are players with variety, but the conditions these players play against are difficult.
What a guy like Sijsling can do on larger scale? Nothing.

I still don't know the reason why they decided to slow down the courts in the 1st place.

There has always been the variety of surfaces, we had regular slow courts on clay, medium plexicushion, fast hard courts, and fastest grass.
They even slowed down Wimbledon, surface which is now slower than some hard courts such as Cinncy and Canada Masters.
Not to mention the speed of IW or Miami, ffs those courts are maybe even slower than some clay events lol.
Also, cutting down many carpet tours, no Masters on grass, etc.

There are already enough surfaces where you can create the variety of it. I don't see how slowing down everything is helping the sport at all :dunno:


Btw, there is also a reason why guys like Tsonga or Berdych, or any similar players with that talent can't do any serious damage in these conditions...
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 02:43:10 PM by Lugburz »
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Offline FreakyGOAT > CD

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2013, 03:06:25 PM »
Well who knows, once Fedalovicray are done maybe Sijsling will pull through :dunno:


So your standards are: does well, is all around, and has 1HBH? It sounds like you should be supporting Federer? Why don't you?  :)~
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2013, 03:18:28 PM »
Well who knows, once Fedalovicray are done maybe Sijsling will pull through :dunno:


So your standards are: does well, is all around, and has 1HBH? It sounds like you should be supporting Federer? Why don't you?  :)~

I like Fed's game ofc, but I'm not a fan. And as I said, he's one of the old ones.
I can count on fingers players who have some kind of variety. That's something that's not good for this sport.
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Offline jesse james

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2013, 03:45:16 PM »
I agree with the gist of the thread.
I though things were best when they started to slow it down, but before where it is now. The very fact that a serve and volley is such an outstanding event in a game speaks volumes.
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Offline FreakyGOAT > CD

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2013, 04:21:31 PM »
I like Fed's game ofc, but I'm not a fan. And as I said, he's one of the old ones.
I can count on fingers players who have some kind of variety. That's something that's not good for this sport.

Dimitrov??

Yeah, options are limited  :Confused:
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Offline falcon

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2013, 10:55:13 PM »
Every era is different in some sense. I enjoy watching the clay season because clay is about slug fests and tactically its more or less like chess. I think tennis on clay is at its peak right now, while in the past, I couldn't say the same. I am terrifically excited abt the clay season now. I did like the 90's for the variety in the players but I am sure you will have someone coming up to bring the variety too. I think Murray is a clever player, not your typical basher and he still has the capacity to win the biggest titles. Of course, technology is such that the balls are bouncing off the raquets at tremendous speeds so players have to increase their speed and stamina. That being said, it is possible to combine the two a la Fed and Murray.


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Offline Clay Death

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 12:08:06 AM »
you can never go back. the game has evolved.
 
the battles/wars simply must be waged from the baseline.
 
there is no other way. serve n volley players are extinct or sleeping in cardboard boxes under bridges since they cant pay their bills.

Online Babblelot

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 12:55:21 AM »
All they have to do is speed the courts and change balls. The AO already got the ball rolling. I suspect this era is coming to an end sooner than many of you expect.

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Offline falcon

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2013, 01:14:14 AM »
All they have to do is speed the courts and change balls. The AO already got the ball rolling. I suspect this era is coming to an end sooner than many of you expect.

Perhaps its us 'tennis' fans only who want to see points not being slug fests. Perhaps the rest of the casual fans would rather see long points for worth of their money  :dunno:


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Offline Clay Death

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2013, 01:48:22 AM »
All they have to do is speed the courts and change balls. The AO already got the ball rolling. I suspect this era is coming to an end sooner than many of you expect.



negative.

Online Alex

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 05:18:27 AM »
Lug, I understand where you are coming from but it is what it is. I still think that that the top 4 would be winning left and right if they speed up the courts btw. the problem with lower ranked players is, and I hate to say this, they are not good enough. I really hoped that Haas would take Miami but it wasn't meant to be.

My general feeling is that Djokovic, Fed and Nadal care about slams only and everything else is irrelevant. again it could be just my feeling, but I've never seen Novak so disinterested in my life. Other 2 divas didn't even bother to show up (Nadal and Fed) and we had the forth Diva Murray winning the tournament. everything is getting so predictable. I'm getting bored too. youngsters completely suck.

 

Online Babblelot

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Re: Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2013, 07:04:12 AM »
All they have to do is speed the courts and change balls. The AO already got the ball rolling. I suspect this era is coming to an end sooner than many of you expect.

Perhaps its us 'tennis' fans only who want to see points not being slug fests. Perhaps the rest of the casual fans would rather see long points for worth of their money  :dunno:

Tennis per se isn't a timed sport like others, but as far as TV goes, it certainly has time constraints. CBS, a major network and home of the US Open, didn't "have time" to televise the 3rd set TB. Who wants to follow a sport that networks are going to dump before the conclusion? Nobody, that's who. And you better believe that includes major TV networks, where the exposure to the sport is much greater than cable (the ESPN family). And on top of all this, during Sunday's turd, you have Mary Carillo rightfully likening it to a women's match. I said all of this was coming down the pike during the US Open.

This era is about done folks.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 07:13:20 AM by Babblelot »
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Offline alk11

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2013, 07:39:25 AM »
you are so right mate
 
Tommy in Miami made me so happy: slice-spin-flat-long-short-cross court,parallel-net rushing-baseline grading-net volleys  "all colors of specter"
 
 but at his age (in fact you can be in your prime too) how many boring (but at these same slow courts very tough) opponents can he take in row?
 
 ATP needs to mix up court speeds (level of bounce,ball type), diversity will make better players with more interesting game!
 
 slow high bouncing court can produce good matches but to have 90% of events (including Wimbledon) on them is just to much.
 
 Pete Sampras recently talked how having to face diffident type of players every time wasn't easy while today you always get basically same type of opponent  .....

Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2013, 08:45:13 AM »
All they have to do is speed the courts and change balls. The AO already got the ball rolling. I suspect this era is coming to an end sooner than many of you expect.

I agree 100% with this.


Also not to be confused, general Herc, I definitely don't mind baseline game. I'm only talking about very limited variety from baseline players. For example Haas' play in Miami had very limited S&V, but his all around baseline game was something to respect.


Ferrer - Murray is perfect example of tennis actually NOT evolving, all we saw was grinding by both players, waiting for other to miss.
There's no strategy at all.
If you consider athleticism evolving in tennis I agree, but there's nothing to appreciate in back and froth shot making by these kinda players. Very limited talented shot making as well.

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Offline Orange Wombat

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2013, 09:08:22 AM »
No, my friends, I think you have the wrong idea of the WTA game. WTA is full of flat-hitting ballbashers who stay on the baseline trying to outhit their opponents until they make errors. ATP is growing into a grinding game- more athletic, but with a lot of topspin and consistency.

Online Babblelot

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Re: Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2013, 10:07:25 AM »
No, my friends, I think you have the wrong idea of the WTA game. WTA is full of flat-hitting ballbashers who stay on the baseline trying to outhit their opponents until they make errors. ATP is growing into a grinding game- more athletic, but with a lot of topspin and consistency.

Ah...yeah, which looks spectacular for *nearly* 2 full sets! before fatigue turned the match into a complete slopfest. The end of the 2nd set and entire 3rd set were WTA worthy.

Some of you guys really live in a bubble.

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Offline Clay Death

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2013, 10:13:41 AM »
negative general babs. you don't know what the hell you are talking about.
 
the game has changed and evolved.
 
they could play on ice and still nobody can go in. you cannot volley what you cannot see.
 
 
returns and passing shots are close to 100 MPH and will exceed those speeds before long.
 
 
you damn near have to guess even at the baseline if you find yourself just slightly out of position.
 
 
better get your ass to the castle and discuss this some more.