Poll

Is ATP slowly turning into WTA? (aka is tennis becoming one-dimensional?

Yes
6 (60%)
No
4 (40%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Author Topic: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?  (Read 5627 times)

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Offline falcon

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Re: Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2013, 10:41:41 AM »
All they have to do is speed the courts and change balls. The AO already got the ball rolling. I suspect this era is coming to an end sooner than many of you expect.

Perhaps its us 'tennis' fans only who want to see points not being slug fests. Perhaps the rest of the casual fans would rather see long points for worth of their money  :dunno:

Tennis per se isn't a timed sport like others, but as far as TV goes, it certainly has time constraints. CBS, a major network and home of the US Open, didn't "have time" to televise the 3rd set TB. Who wants to follow a sport that networks are going to dump before the conclusion? Nobody, that's who. And you better believe that includes major TV networks, where the exposure to the sport is much greater than cable (the ESPN family). And on top of all this, during Sunday's turd, you have Mary Carillo rightfully likening it to a women's match. I said all of this was coming down the pike during the US Open.

This era is about done folks.


I know what you are saying....I don't remember which match it was but it was again a slug fest on the ATP and 2 full sets were done but the audience just kept cheering for the third. That was when I thought that people wanted to see the grinding tennis...


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Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2013, 10:52:49 AM »
So is it safe to assume they slowed down courts only because they thought it could draw more attention?
Because they thought public want to see grinding 'drama' matches?

If so, I can say for myself they failed.

Or the question still remains, why did they do it?
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Offline Clay Death

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2013, 11:07:09 AM »
they did not fail general lugburz.
 
the sport is now bigger than ever before.
 
also more people are playing than ever before.
 
all of the top events are reporting greater numbers than ever before. each year they are setting new attendance records.
 
 
also as i have suggested, you cant stop the forces of evolution. the game is fast and getting faster with each passing day.
 
 
how can you dodge bullets at the net when you damn near cant dodge them at the baseline.

Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2013, 11:17:45 AM »
general Herc,
it seems you missed my previous post, so I'll just quote myself again:


Also not to be confused, general Herc, I definitely don't mind baseline game. I'm only talking about very limited variety from baseline players. For example Haas' play in Miami had very limited S&V, but his all around baseline game was something to respect.

Ferrer - Murray is perfect example of tennis actually NOT evolving, all we saw was grinding by both players, waiting for other to miss.
There's no strategy at all.
If you consider athleticism evolving in tennis I agree, but there's nothing to appreciate in back and froth shot making by these kinda players. Very limited talented shot making as well.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 11:19:35 AM by Lugburz »
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Online Babblelot

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Re: Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2013, 11:20:49 AM »
negative general babs. you don't know what the hell you are talking about.
 
the game has changed and evolved.
 
they could play on ice and still nobody can go in. you cannot volley what you cannot see.
 
 
returns and passing shots are close to 100 MPH and will exceed those speeds before long.
 
 
you damn near have to guess even at the baseline if you find yourself just slightly out of position.
 
 
better get your ass to the castle and discuss this some more.

Again, yet another display of your inability to peer outside your bubble. Show me where I mentioned S&V. You can't. But inside your impenetrable bubble, that's all you hear.

The game will move away from the "last man standing" matches we witnessed yesterday for all the reasons I've mentioned over the past several months, but mainly because the product suffers from fatigue turned to timid play, and TV will ultimately have the final say. And, like I said, all that's required is a bit of tweaking to the courts and balls, both of which the AO has already done!!!!

You're just really naive, bubble boy.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 11:28:37 AM by Babblelot »
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2013, 11:27:23 AM »
Babbs and I weren't talking about lack of S&V, but the lack of variety from baseliners.

This is what I'm talking about. All around player. There's a reason why all these youngsters can't touch Novak or any guys from top 5.

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2013, 11:36:56 AM »
Nice video, Luggy. :thumbs up:
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Offline Clay Death

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2013, 12:00:09 PM »
what kind of a variety is needed from a baseline general lugburz?
 
 
nadal cant do a damn thing except hit a backhand and a forehand and he has 11 majors. he also owns the greatest player ever lived with zero variety.
 
i thought winning was the main objective.
 
now a player has to impress babbs too. babbs is too damn old fashioned and lives in a double bubble.
 
what kind of variety are we looking for here anyway? most players can hit a decent slice also from the backcourt. and most can go in and finish the points off.
 
nadal is the only one who hits a club level slice and he is terrified of the net.
 
zero variety is needed to win. all that is needed is superb fitness, great movement, and bullet proof backhands and forehands.
 
 
and winning is the main objective on the court last time i checked.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 12:04:43 PM by Clay Death »

Offline Clay Death

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2013, 12:10:05 PM »
general Herc,
it seems you missed my previous post, so I'll just quote myself again:


Also not to be confused, general Herc, I definitely don't mind baseline game. I'm only talking about very limited variety from baseline players. For example Haas' play in Miami had very limited S&V, but his all around baseline game was something to respect.

Ferrer - Murray is perfect example of tennis actually NOT evolving, all we saw was grinding by both players, waiting for other to miss.
There's no strategy at all.
If you consider athleticism evolving in tennis I agree, but there's nothing to appreciate in back and froth shot making by these kinda players. Very limited talented shot making as well.




ferru lacks the size. he is doing all he can. even at age 31 he is managing to stay in top 10. he took home 7 titles last year.


murray is considered to have at least as much variety as roger these days. murray can do it all.


what murray lacks is a deadly forehand with lethal finishing power which guys like nole, nadal, and roger have.



its human nature general. we tend to find certain players interesting. i cant watch a player like simon for example.


of course ferru has a boring game but he is taking home titles and he is in the top 10. that is quite an achievement for the little fellow who is over 30 now.

he impresses in other ways. he impresses with his heart and with his fitness.

Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2013, 12:13:49 PM »
Nadal is kinda out of the equation here. The spotlight is on the future of tennis and those who simply can't trouble top players today.

Nadal has variety, he can efficiently slice and change many shots during a point. He also can strategically create his opportunity to attack, while others simply grind and wait for opponent to miss.

If we need to mention names, as I've already stated Ferrer and Murray. That match was a perfect example of only grinding with neither of them showing any will to finish the point off.

Djokovic was so booring in the beginning. Ultimately he changed his game over the years, so that's that.

But the point of the thread are future players, who lean more to grinding. They simply can't touch players like Fed, Nadal, Djokovic.
Because they do same thing over and over again. If they let Djokovic or any top player get into their well known rhythm, the match will be over before it started in the first place.
Haas was a perfect example how tennis should be played if any of them want to win or put up a fight at least.

So what is the future of tennis after Nadal and Fed, and lets say Djokovic. Players like Murray dominating the sport, Tomic, or players like Tipsarevic, Troicki, Simon, Monaco, Ferrer?
If that happens we will be seeing same matchups with same predictable tennis over and over again.

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Re: Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2013, 12:17:40 PM »
general Herc,
it seems you missed my previous post, so I'll just quote myself again:


Also not to be confused, general Herc, I definitely don't mind baseline game. I'm only talking about very limited variety from baseline players. For example Haas' play in Miami had very limited S&V, but his all around baseline game was something to respect.

Ferrer - Murray is perfect example of tennis actually NOT evolving, all we saw was grinding by both players, waiting for other to miss.
There's no strategy at all.
If you consider athleticism evolving in tennis I agree, but there's nothing to appreciate in back and froth shot making by these kinda players. Very limited talented shot making as well.

he impresses in other ways. he impresses with his heart and with his fitness.

He left his heart, fitness, and honor on the court yesterday near the end of the 2nd set. Fatigue ruled the day in the end and, as the wise man said:

Fatigue makes cowards of us all.
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Offline Dallas

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2013, 12:28:27 PM »
Don't believe I'm saying this....but... I agree with Babbs. 

Back in the 90's, the problem with tennis was that most of the courts were TOO FAST.  So, especially at Wimbledon, you had...Serve, come to the net, volley winner.  That was basically it.  That's why many of the Spanish players refused to play Wimbledon back then.  They thought "why bother"...since they knew they were not going to do anything but probably lose early.  This was going on with a lot of tournaments.  There were hardly any rallies and as a spectator, it really wasn't a lot to watch.  In fact, like we're doing now...discussions were being formed on "how can we 'save' tennis"?

Their answer?  Slow the game down.  They did.  Wimbledon changed the grass; a lot of hard court tournaments started putting more 'grit' into the paint; heavier balls, etc, etc, etc.  to the point that NOW...the game is TOO SLOW.  When you can get a 25 ball rally at Wimbledon....you know times have changed.

My point is that: (1) Yes, they needed to slow the courts down some because it was getting too predictable with a 3-shot rally at best; (2) they've gone OVERBOARD in their efforts to slow it down.  It's like when the people had a problem with rats, they decided to bring in lots of snakes to eat the rats....that worked, but now they have been overrun by snakes!  :rofl_2:

I wish:
1.  They can leave the clay courts alone...they should be slow;
2.  They need to speed up Wimbledon some.  Go back to the original grass, but maybe use heavier balls to slow them down some.
3.  We need more 'fast' hard courts.  Hard courts should be fast...not play like slow clay;
4.  Make sure the indoor courts are still fast and bounce low like they have been in the past.

We need a variety.  Tennis players should be adaptable.  But like some of the players said today...it's like playing on one surface, hence, the same folks are winning over and over and playing the same way.

You know it's too slow when a network has to 'cut away' from a 'best-of-3' set match because it's run over the course of the time allotment!  Thank goodness I had tennis channel or I never would have even seen the ending of the Sony final!

Offline alk11

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2013, 12:29:54 PM »
So is it safe to assume they slowed down courts only because they thought it could draw more attention?
Because they thought public want to see grinding 'drama' matches?

If so, I can say for myself they failed.

Or the question still remains, why did they do it?

they slowed down courts to keep people longer  at event complex so they can buy stuff: drinks,meals,caps,t shirts etc

restaurants killed at AO during semis & final year ago,but down side are low TV ratings (5 h matches are only for hardcore fans)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 12:31:47 PM by alk11 »

Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2013, 12:33:36 PM »
couldn't agree more lady D, well said  :thumbs-up:
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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2013, 01:13:36 PM »
excellent thread general lugburz.
 
 
 
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Re: Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2013, 01:25:50 PM »
couldn't agree more lady D, well said  :thumbs-up:

Yep, right out of the park, Dallas, especially the part about agreeing with me :) 

Interestingly, even ironically, the surface that technology has helped the most is clay! The matches are shorter in duration now than ever before. Change was good for clay.

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Offline sid

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2013, 02:09:58 PM »
Nadal is kinda out of the equation here. The spotlight is on the future of tennis and those who simply can't trouble top players today.

Nadal has variety, he can efficiently slice and change many shots during a point. He also can strategically create his opportunity to attack, while others simply grind and wait for opponent to miss.

If we need to mention names, as I've already stated Ferrer and Murray. That match was a perfect example of only grinding with neither of them showing any will to finish the point off.

Djokovic was so booring in the beginning. Ultimately he changed his game over the years, so that's that.

But the point of the thread are future players, who lean more to grinding. They simply can't touch players like Fed, Nadal, Djokovic.
Because they do same thing over and over again. If they let Djokovic or any top player get into their well known rhythm, the match will be over before it started in the first place.
Haas was a perfect example how tennis should be played if any of them want to win or put up a fight at least.

So what is the future of tennis after Nadal and Fed, and lets say Djokovic. Players like Murray dominating the sport, Tomic, or players like Tipsarevic, Troicki, Simon, Monaco, Ferrer?
If that happens we will be seeing same matchups with same predictable tennis over and over again.

Lugburz is a Murray hater let's tell the truth,i wonder if this is not Bab's with another name on here.

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2013, 02:16:20 PM »
not so sure about Lug hating Andy tho. I might be getting slow tho, just can't remember.

Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2013, 02:18:13 PM »
Nadal is kinda out of the equation here. The spotlight is on the future of tennis and those who simply can't trouble top players today.

Nadal has variety, he can efficiently slice and change many shots during a point. He also can strategically create his opportunity to attack, while others simply grind and wait for opponent to miss.

If we need to mention names, as I've already stated Ferrer and Murray. That match was a perfect example of only grinding with neither of them showing any will to finish the point off.

Djokovic was so booring in the beginning. Ultimately he changed his game over the years, so that's that.

But the point of the thread are future players, who lean more to grinding. They simply can't touch players like Fed, Nadal, Djokovic.
Because they do same thing over and over again. If they let Djokovic or any top player get into their well known rhythm, the match will be over before it started in the first place.
Haas was a perfect example how tennis should be played if any of them want to win or put up a fight at least.

So what is the future of tennis after Nadal and Fed, and lets say Djokovic. Players like Murray dominating the sport, Tomic, or players like Tipsarevic, Troicki, Simon, Monaco, Ferrer?
If that happens we will be seeing same matchups with same predictable tennis over and over again.

Lugburz is a Murray hater let's tell the truth,i wonder if this is not Bab's with another name on here.

 :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

Back on topic though.... What tells you I'm a Murray hater? Do I hate his style of play? Yes. But that doesn't say I'm a hater at all.
I don't hate any player, I'm just realistic when it comes to watching tennis matches.

Its just the truth when I say that match resembled WTA match. Only grinding, 15 breaks in a best of 3 match, ridiculous ratio on W/UE's, etc etc.
Ferrer cramping, Murray looked like a tired dog, incredible long rallies.

To each his own I guess. You like his game, I don't... Its simply as that. I don't hate any player.
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Online Alex

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2013, 02:27:30 PM »
Nadal is kinda out of the equation here. The spotlight is on the future of tennis and those who simply can't trouble top players today.

Nadal has variety, he can efficiently slice and change many shots during a point. He also can strategically create his opportunity to attack, while others simply grind and wait for opponent to miss.

If we need to mention names, as I've already stated Ferrer and Murray. That match was a perfect example of only grinding with neither of them showing any will to finish the point off.

Djokovic was so booring in the beginning. Ultimately he changed his game over the years, so that's that.

But the point of the thread are future players, who lean more to grinding. They simply can't touch players like Fed, Nadal, Djokovic.
Because they do same thing over and over again. If they let Djokovic or any top player get into their well known rhythm, the match will be over before it started in the first place.
Haas was a perfect example how tennis should be played if any of them want to win or put up a fight at least.

So what is the future of tennis after Nadal and Fed, and lets say Djokovic. Players like Murray dominating the sport, Tomic, or players like Tipsarevic, Troicki, Simon, Monaco, Ferrer?
If that happens we will be seeing same matchups with same predictable tennis over and over again.

Lugburz is a Murray hater let's tell the truth,i wonder if this is not Bab's with another name on here.
Bab's only problem is he likes the WTA. In my book that's simply wrong, Real men don't watch women playing tennis  :rofl_2:. Sorry babsy.