Poll

Is ATP slowly turning into WTA? (aka is tennis becoming one-dimensional?

Yes
6 (60%)
No
4 (40%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Author Topic: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?  (Read 4428 times)

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Online Babblelot

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2013, 04:02:33 PM »
sid was that kid at school that got teased and ran crying to the teacher rather than take a swing at the others.
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Offline sid

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2013, 04:17:04 PM »
sid was that kid at school that got teased and ran crying to the teacher rather than take a swing at the others.

I was not one of them odd's you would have been.Grow up,your like a snot nosed kid saying that crap.

Online Babblelot

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2013, 04:31:58 PM »
sid was that kid at school that got teased and ran crying to the teacher rather than take a swing at the others.


I was not one of them odd's you would have been.Grow up,your like a snot nosed kid saying that crap.




sid, stop crying like a teething baby every time someone mentions Murray. It's tired. You're tired. Take a nap.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 04:41:43 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline sid

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2013, 04:48:41 PM »
sid was that kid at school that got teased and ran crying to the teacher rather than take a swing at the others.


I was not one of them odd's you would have been.Grow up,your like a snot nosed kid saying that crap.




sid, stop crying like a teething baby every time someone mentions Murray. It's tired. You're tired. Take a nap.


Play the fool if you wish,now act your age,not your shoe size,have you nothing better to do?

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2013, 05:51:48 PM »
I might sound a bit selfish, but to me tennis is slowly dying.

I had many alternatives when my fave players retired in the past, but when my favorite players retire soonish, I really have doubts that tennis for me will become very uninteresting.

Luckily I had Tommy still playing after Henman retired. But that was the time I really enjoyed tennis, watching other players like Sampras, Rafter, Safin, Agassi, even clay specialist Kuerten, etc etc..

Now its all about fitness and who can endure more grinding.
More and more youngsters turning into robots playing same points over and over again. There's really limited variety today.
And those who can play all around and various game, are old players.

Slowing down courts is another example of how difficult for new players is to lean more to the all around play.

It feels like I just might lose interest in tennis after Haas retires, being probably the last guy on tour who has the ultimate all around game.
It just feels sad, but it is also true.

What could be done to avoid ATP turning into WTA?
Hammer meets nail.
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Offline Orange Wombat

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2013, 07:00:29 PM »
sid was that kid at school that got teased and ran crying to the teacher rather than take a swing at the others.

I was not one of them odd's you would have been.Grow up,your like a snot nosed kid saying that crap.

Whoa, calm down guys  :rofl_2:

Offline Rafa816

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2013, 08:55:56 PM »
Nadal is kinda out of the equation here. The spotlight is on the future of tennis and those who simply can't trouble top players today.

Nadal has variety, he can efficiently slice and change many shots during a point. He also can strategically create his opportunity to attack, while others simply grind and wait for opponent to miss.

If we need to mention names, as I've already stated Ferrer and Murray. That match was a perfect example of only grinding with neither of them showing any will to finish the point off.

Djokovic was so booring in the beginning. Ultimately he changed his game over the years, so that's that.

But the point of the thread are future players, who lean more to grinding. They simply can't touch players like Fed, Nadal, Djokovic.
Because they do same thing over and over again. If they let Djokovic or any top player get into their well known rhythm, the match will be over before it started in the first place.
Haas was a perfect example how tennis should be played if any of them want to win or put up a fight at least.

So what is the future of tennis after Nadal and Fed, and lets say Djokovic. Players like Murray dominating the sport, Tomic, or players like Tipsarevic, Troicki, Simon, Monaco, Ferrer?
If that happens we will be seeing same matchups with same predictable tennis over and over again.

I would actually very much like to differ. After Nadal, Fed, Djoker, and Murray, I would say absolutely none of those players stand a chance. Tipsy and Ferrer are way too old. They'll retire before any of the Big 4, besides maybe Fed. Monaco has been dropping in the rankings like lead. Troicki is painfully irrelevant. Tomic is a major headcase. If he ever goes down a set, he's done. And Simon has steadied out in the Top 20 but I doubt he'll ever break the Top 10.

The players who DO stand more of a chance after the fall of the Big 4: Del Po, Raonic, Nishikori, Janowicz, etc.

None of those are grinders. With the exception of Nishikori, they're all ball bashers. Del Po is working on his defense, but he still murders forehands. I think he's only working on defense to make up for what he lost on his backhand. And Nishikori is exactly the kind of player you're saying the tour lacks: an all-rounder. He doesn't necessarily have a huge weapon to finish points off, but his inside out forehand does the job a lot of times.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline Dallas

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2013, 08:59:34 PM »
Nadal is kinda out of the equation here. The spotlight is on the future of tennis and those who simply can't trouble top players today.

Nadal has variety, he can efficiently slice and change many shots during a point. He also can strategically create his opportunity to attack, while others simply grind and wait for opponent to miss.

If we need to mention names, as I've already stated Ferrer and Murray. That match was a perfect example of only grinding with neither of them showing any will to finish the point off.

Djokovic was so booring in the beginning. Ultimately he changed his game over the years, so that's that.

But the point of the thread are future players, who lean more to grinding. They simply can't touch players like Fed, Nadal, Djokovic.
Because they do same thing over and over again. If they let Djokovic or any top player get into their well known rhythm, the match will be over before it started in the first place.
Haas was a perfect example how tennis should be played if any of them want to win or put up a fight at least.

So what is the future of tennis after Nadal and Fed, and lets say Djokovic. Players like Murray dominating the sport, Tomic, or players like Tipsarevic, Troicki, Simon, Monaco, Ferrer?
If that happens we will be seeing same matchups with same predictable tennis over and over again.

I would actually very much like to differ. After Nadal, Fed, Djoker, and Murray, I would say absolutely none of those players stand a chance. Tipsy and Ferrer are way too old. They'll retire before any of the Big 4, besides maybe Fed. Monaco has been dropping in the rankings like lead. Troicki is painfully irrelevant. Tomic is a major headcase. If he ever goes down a set, he's done. And Simon has steadied out in the Top 20 but I doubt he'll ever break the Top 10.

The players who DO stand more of a chance after the fall of the Big 4: Del Po, Raonic, Nishikori, Janowicz, etc.

None of those are grinders. With the exception of Nishikori, they're all ball bashers. Del Po is working on his defense, but he still murders forehands. I think he's only working on defense to make up for what he lost on his backhand. And Nishikori is exactly the kind of player you're saying the tour lacks: an all-rounder. He doesn't necessarily have a huge weapon to finish points off, but his inside out forehand does the job a lot of times.

And all 4 of these guys are "injury" prone.  I don't think none of them can stay healthy for an entire year to really 'make a difference'!  You have to be consistent...and none of them (including Del Po) are consistent enough to really make a move.  Maybe things will change, but I haven't seen anything YET to say that they will for these players.

Offline Rafa816

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2013, 09:08:15 PM »
I wouldn't say any of them are injury prone, with the possible exception of Del Po and Raonic to some extent. And Del Po is really starting to move up and establish himself as a Top 5 player again. But I will agree with you that he needs to be more consistent. The match against Chardy at the AO and against Kamke at Miami were both awful. But Raonic doesn't retire a ton. He has before, but he never takes long absences. Nishikori, to my knowledge, has never retired, nor has Janowicz, again to my knowledge. And the main reason I cite those is because they're all very young. Yes, they need to grow some. But they have that time to do so.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline Alex

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2013, 09:36:49 PM »
Babs, and Sid. one thing I'd like to share. I'm not as powerful as Dallas on this forum ( :))), but please stop fighting. it's not worth it. both of you are great guys  :))

Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #50 on: April 02, 2013, 09:04:53 AM »
Nadal is kinda out of the equation here. The spotlight is on the future of tennis and those who simply can't trouble top players today.

Nadal has variety, he can efficiently slice and change many shots during a point. He also can strategically create his opportunity to attack, while others simply grind and wait for opponent to miss.

If we need to mention names, as I've already stated Ferrer and Murray. That match was a perfect example of only grinding with neither of them showing any will to finish the point off.

Djokovic was so booring in the beginning. Ultimately he changed his game over the years, so that's that.

But the point of the thread are future players, who lean more to grinding. They simply can't touch players like Fed, Nadal, Djokovic.
Because they do same thing over and over again. If they let Djokovic or any top player get into their well known rhythm, the match will be over before it started in the first place.
Haas was a perfect example how tennis should be played if any of them want to win or put up a fight at least.

So what is the future of tennis after Nadal and Fed, and lets say Djokovic. Players like Murray dominating the sport, Tomic, or players like Tipsarevic, Troicki, Simon, Monaco, Ferrer?
If that happens we will be seeing same matchups with same predictable tennis over and over again.

I would actually very much like to differ. After Nadal, Fed, Djoker, and Murray, I would say absolutely none of those players stand a chance. Tipsy and Ferrer are way too old. They'll retire before any of the Big 4, besides maybe Fed. Monaco has been dropping in the rankings like lead. Troicki is painfully irrelevant. Tomic is a major headcase. If he ever goes down a set, he's done. And Simon has steadied out in the Top 20 but I doubt he'll ever break the Top 10.

The players who DO stand more of a chance after the fall of the Big 4: Del Po, Raonic, Nishikori, Janowicz, etc.

None of those are grinders. With the exception of Nishikori, they're all ball bashers. Del Po is working on his defense, but he still murders forehands. I think he's only working on defense to make up for what he lost on his backhand. And Nishikori is exactly the kind of player you're saying the tour lacks: an all-rounder. He doesn't necessarily have a huge weapon to finish points off, but his inside out forehand does the job a lot of times.

You didn't understand me, I was talking about future players with games like Simon, Monaco, Tipsraveic etc. I wasn't talking about them.

edit: and yes I agree Nishikori has variety, and is perfect example. But he is such a rarity in this generation. And I think he will be even bigger rarity in the years to come..
There's Dimitrov also, as one of the youngest.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 09:15:58 AM by Lugburz »
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Offline alk11

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #51 on: April 02, 2013, 06:34:02 PM »
article by Simon Reed  uk.eurosport

"Is elite tennis now just a case of last man standing?

Tennis has become steadily more gladiatorial and it is losing a lot of quality because of the ‘last man standing’ nature of the matches at the highest level.

Many of the ATP finals are about one player outlasting another, and the concept of pure tennis does not come into it, sadly. It is a great shame that players have to concentrate all of their efforts on simply surviving physically...... "


more at

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/simon-reed/top-level-tennis-now-just-case-last-man-143403118.html

Online Babblelot

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Re: Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #52 on: April 02, 2013, 07:58:31 PM »
article by Simon Reed  uk.eurosport

"Is elite tennis now just a case of last man standing?

Tennis has become steadily more gladiatorial and it is losing a lot of quality because of the ‘last man standing’ nature of the matches at the highest level.

Many of the ATP finals are about one player outlasting another, and the concept of pure tennis does not come into it, sadly. It is a great shame that players have to concentrate all of their efforts on simply surviving physically...... "


more at

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/simon-reed/top-level-tennis-now-just-case-last-man-143403118.html


I know you bubble boys can't see two feet infront of impenetrable shells, but this dude plagiarised what I wrote at Tennis.com.
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Offline Alex

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #53 on: April 02, 2013, 08:15:27 PM »
Am just not sure what you guys want to see any more. They call top players grinders, pushers, whatever. so my question to you is, would you like to see S&V again, short points etc. do you want long rallies? Do you want to see points lasting only, let's say 10 shots?

You want faster courts and this and that. you want slower balls. More variety. You are spoiled too much. I was just arguing about this on MTF.

Could someone explain to me what kind of tennis we actually need nowadays? Everyone is complaining so much. OK, speed up the courts, bring the old grass at W and you'll still see the same top guys winning left and right. it's because they are that good.


Offline Rafa816

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #54 on: April 02, 2013, 08:27:26 PM »
Exactly. People complain too much. There are still amazing matches. Nadal and Djokovic both hit amazing shots constantly in a match. Should they purposely not get to the ball when they're able to just so people don't complain about rallies being too long? What's wrong with having amazing defense AND offense? It makes for great matches. That's what the guys on top have. Nadal hit multiple 100+ mph forehands and 90+ mph backhands in the AO final last year. Djoker also hit multiple 100+ mph forehands. Is that characteristic of simple grinders? No. They have offense and finishing power. But they also keep themselves fit and are fast enough, so why wouldn't they chase down the balls?

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Online Babblelot

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #55 on: April 02, 2013, 09:51:18 PM »
The reason you guys have so much trouble trying to understand what I have to say is you don't read what I have to say. Lol

Where have I mentioned S&V while railing against 5-6 hour matches? Jumping to extremes makes you guys look disingenuous at best, but mostly plain stupid.

I can write the same things another 5,6,10 times and you still won't understand. I had to go elsewhere to find people who can comprehend and appreciate what I have to say.

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Offline Clay Death

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2013, 10:16:56 PM »
babs you don't know what the hell you are talking about.
 
I noticed you also just put down this forum. you just said that you had to go somewhere else to find people to understand you.
 
well if that is your concept of this forum then get the hell lost. go where you can find people who can understand you.
 
you are not setting a very good example here. think about what you are saying to all the potential members here.
 
and you cant hardly make a point without insulting everybody. is that really necessary?
 
 
nole, nadal, murray, and roger are playing the sport at the highest possible level. this is the golden age of tennis.
 
at their very best and when they are healthy and fit, they are the best in history. nobody has ever been better.
 
the game has evolved. you cannot go back. you cannot stop the forces of evolution. the battle today simply must be waged from the baseline. and that means bullet proof strokes with deadly finishing power. those who have them will win slams. those who don't will win nothing or mickey mouse events.
 
net game is extinct except going in on your own terms. so volley is essentially dead.
 
slice is a defensive shot at best. you may use it to vary the pace and spin a little but you cannot win matches with a slice.
 
 
because of the speed of the game and the increasingly demanding nature of the sport you need amazing movement and even more amazing fitness.
 
this is not rocket science.
 
variety is nice to have but you don't need it so why the hell would a player spend all his time developing variety.
 
and what kind of variety are you looking for? spit it out here.
 
variety is of no use today. nadal cant do a damn thing except hit backhand and forehands. well he took home 11 slams by age 25 and he ran over the greatest player ever lived who has more variety than anybody has ever played the sport.
 
so why would I need variety? murray has immense variety but at his best, he cant deal with nole at his best or roger at his best.
 
 
stop insulting these people and putting down this forum.
 
and grow the hell up. this is your family here.

Online Babblelot

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2013, 10:27:04 PM »
I have to say, when it comes down to it, from where I sit, the Unfabulous 5 are Rafa, Murray, Ferrer, Simon, and Monfils on hard courts. Take these 5 out of the mix and you probably wouldn't hear me railing against the modern player. In fact, safe to say, everything I don't like about today's game really boils down to what I don't like about these 5. So this last man standing crap will only live with these 5. And of the 5, Murray and Ferrer are the 2 constants, i.e., not injury prone.

As I said elsewhere, ironically, clay is the one surface that's benefitted most from today's technology. Rafa can dispose of anyone with incredible efficiency on clay. I can watch Rafa on clay all day. But the Unfab 5 really need to pick it up on these slow hardcourts.

Too bad we have to watch them until the end of each tournament lol

I guess, in the end, I've been too critical of today's player throwing them all under the bus when it's really just a handful of bad apples. :)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 10:30:59 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline Rafa816

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2013, 11:17:07 PM »
The overall thing I'm getting at is, what really is your problem with these people? Rafa in particular. He has the ability to crush shots. He can come up to the net every now and then to finish off a point quickly. He's improved his serve so he can get more aces and service winners. He's beaten many people with 6-0, 6-1, and 6-2 sets, even on hard courts. But you act like it's a bad thing that he has the stamina to be able to play for hours. Yeah, he can push back shots and defend all day and just break down the opponent until they make a ton of unforced errors because they're tired. But he doesn't do that anymore. He hits winners, aces, etc. Will he let a ball go when he can get it? Heck no. Why should he? But I really don't understand what's wrong with that.

Ferrer, Simon, and Monfils I can understand. They are boring to watch for me as well. Especially Simon.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 11:17:49 PM by Rafa816 »

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline Alex

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2013, 11:26:36 PM »
but, but Babs. what kind of tennis do you want to watch nowadays? so much talk about it on all tennis boards. slow courts, slow grass, 'slow clay'  :)~.

sorry bud, but you won't be seeing Almagro winning any slams for all kinda different reasons  :)