Poll

Is ATP slowly turning into WTA? (aka is tennis becoming one-dimensional?

Yes
6 (60%)
No
4 (40%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Author Topic: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?  (Read 4279 times)

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Online Babblelot

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #140 on: April 11, 2013, 01:24:21 AM »
why did Dmas stop posting? I can't remember what or who pissed him off. I know there was something. My brain is not really working today :whistle:


He tried to mix US politics with tennis. So did Pacer. Those threads were toxic. These two didn't survive. I think we all are a lot worse off for the experience. Fortunately, those days are long gone.


 
Pacer was a fool.
 
Dmastous got mad at Babb's for labeling him a racist if I remember right.
 
Dmastous was a good poster for the most part and knowlegeable in tennis.


Pacer was no fool. Actually, he is quite brilliant, a PhD candidate, and a 7.0 tennis player with a bad back. You didn't like him because he was aligned with me against you idiots.

Dmast thought I was calling him a racist. I said, something very similar to this: "No, I'm not saying you're a racist. You're a classist, which is worse!" But I never sugar coated any comments. He was taking a beating from me on a daily basis. Unlike you, I spent a weekend with the dude. I'm sure I beat him down so badly that his self-image went from very low to none at all.

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« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 02:39:44 AM by Babblelot »
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Offline Alex

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #141 on: April 11, 2013, 06:16:57 AM »
I don't know Babs. I miss both Dmas and Pacer. I never pay too much attention when it comes to these 'fights'. I've never had any problems with anybody on this board except Emma who simply tried too hard to be smart  :whistle:.

I don't want my friends to agree with me all the time. I want them to challenge me. I hate that attitude that most people have nowadays 'if you agree with me, I love you and you are great' and if you disagree with me you suck  ..-).


Offline monstertruck

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #142 on: April 11, 2013, 07:21:55 AM »
I don't know Babs. I miss both Dmas and Pacer. I never pay too much attention when it comes to these 'fights'. I've never had any problems with anybody on this board except Emma who simply tried too hard to be smart  :whistle:.

I don't want my friends to agree with me all the time. I want them to challenge me. I hate that attitude that most people have nowadays 'if you agree with me, I love you and you are great' and if you disagree with me you suck  ..-).
***Nods in agreement***
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #143 on: April 11, 2013, 07:58:23 AM »
I'm with Alex on this one, I miss them too.
Also I can't remember when was the last time I was in a 'fight' here, so its fair to say I'm not paying attention to them either.

I have better things to do than 'fight' on tennis forums  :)
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Online Babblelot

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #144 on: April 11, 2013, 10:47:07 AM »
Well aren't you too a couple of dandies.

Returning to my initial comment, those were toxic threads and we came out worse off. I think we all just decided to walk away. It took time for me and monster to mend fences. But, in the end, the good stuff between us far outweighed our ideological differences.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 10:52:24 AM by Babblelot »
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Offline Swish

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #145 on: April 11, 2013, 10:51:29 AM »
Bring back all of them, who gives a crap?
Better than waiting 5 hours for a response to my important posts  :::O .
 
 

Online Babblelot

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Re: Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #146 on: April 11, 2013, 10:54:59 AM »
Bring back all of them, who gives a crap?
Better than waiting 5 hours for a response to my important posts  :::O .

Oh, you got me! I thought twice and decided to edit out my dig at you. Lol. Good to see you took it in stride. :D

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Offline Swish

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #147 on: April 11, 2013, 10:58:33 AM »
Bring back all of them, who gives a crap?
Better than waiting 5 hours for a response to my important posts  :::O .

Oh, you got me! I thought twice and decided to edit out my dig at you. Lol. Good to see you took it in stride. :D



Who gives a crap about most your silly posts. :scratch my butt:   :rofl_2:

Online Babblelot

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #148 on: April 11, 2013, 11:16:44 AM »
Attaboy! Lol :D
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Offline Gawdblessya

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #149 on: April 11, 2013, 05:08:46 PM »
.....
By and large, the speed of the court doesn't matter. Last week, Haas *proved* variety isn't a function of court speed at all. Players aren't asked to adapt their games to the courts. What they have to adapt to is the style of play against the guy at the other side of the net.....
You hit the nail on the head, Babblelot.  How these players are taught to play / are developed has more to do with the current malais, and whilst court surfaces/balls/racquet technology etc will of course impinge upon the result, how they play is what matters.  It's interesting how beautifully Haas demonstrated that "like for like" needn't be the paradigm.
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #150 on: April 16, 2013, 04:37:09 AM »
a few thoughts/comments:

 

3) does anyone know about racquet technology itself and it's impacts? i should research it, but how much has that had an impact? not the strings but the racquets themselves.  Where's DMAST when you need him. Monstertruck can you go to his house and bring him back since you're neighbors? thanks! :) what's the difference between Wilson's "nano" technology and "karbon" technology, is it just marketing and all the magic happens in the strings? Do Sharapova's Big O's make her more aggressive and scream louder? I am talking about those O-holes in her racquet.. I think I am digging myself deeper into a hole here.

To answer your original question Professor:
Having played with racquets from every decade since 1940 except for this one :paper bag:, here are my personal observations.
The change from wood to metal and then to composites made the racquets lighter and changed the balance point.  The head size also began to increase quite dramatically when you stop to think about it.  In order to compensate for the loss of power (from loss of mass) players started swinging faster.  The faster swing necessated & also created more topspin in order to control the ball.  Mis**ts were minimized by the increase in head size.  Increasing the head size also opened up the string pattern which in turn helps produce more spin with the proper swing shape.  The progession continued until the next major change in tennis equipment which were the Luxillon strings.

What's interesting to note is the corresponding change in the techniques of the pros that took advantage of the 'improved' technology.  Most players now use semi-western FH grips and more are hitting with full western FH.  More spin = more control = longer points = boring tennis for some folks. :)

Imagine if any other major sport changed it's equipment so drastically.
I don't think it would fly with the fans.
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Offline pawan89

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #151 on: April 16, 2013, 09:59:11 AM »
a few thoughts/comments:

 

3) does anyone know about racquet technology itself and it's impacts? i should research it, but how much has that had an impact? not the strings but the racquets themselves.  Where's DMAST when you need him. Monstertruck can you go to his house and bring him back since you're neighbors? thanks! :) what's the difference between Wilson's "nano" technology and "karbon" technology, is it just marketing and all the magic happens in the strings? Do Sharapova's Big O's make her more aggressive and scream louder? I am talking about those O-holes in her racquet.. I think I am digging myself deeper into a hole here.

To answer your original question Professor:
Having played with racquets from every decade since 1940 except for this one :paper bag:, here are my personal observations.
The change from wood to metal and then to composites made the racquets lighter and changed the balance point.  The head size also began to increase quite dramatically when you stop to think about it.  In order to compensate for the loss of power (from loss of mass) players started swinging faster.  The faster swing necessated & also created more topspin in order to control the ball.  Mis**ts were minimized by the increase in head size.  Increasing the head size also opened up the string pattern which in turn helps produce more spin with the proper swing shape.  The progession continued until the next major change in tennis equipment which were the Luxillon strings.

What's interesting to note is the corresponding change in the techniques of the pros that took advantage of the 'improved' technology.  Most players now use semi-western FH grips and more are hitting with full western FH.  More spin = more control = longer points = boring tennis for some folks. :)

Imagine if any other major sport changed it's equipment so drastically.
I don't think it would fly with the fans.

good stuff monster :) so changes come from lighter racquet, bigger head size. So today's racquet materials and stuff don't really matter as much aside from the fact that they allow racquets to remain light and have a larger head and all the benefits that come with it like a more open string pattern.


Offline monstertruck

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #152 on: April 17, 2013, 05:38:18 AM »
In addition to allowing larger, lighter frames to be constructed, modern materials also offer a more consistent product.  And they look pretty.

Recommended reading:
http://www.racquettech.com/store/ptot_contents.html

This was ripped from a Racquettech article I read awhile ago.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/59279-racket-technology-that-extra-inch-made-the-difference
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 05:52:41 AM by monstertruck »
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #153 on: July 15, 2013, 08:59:29 PM »
.....
By and large, the speed of the court doesn't matter. Last week, Haas *proved* variety isn't a function of court speed at all. Players aren't asked to adapt their games to the courts. What they have to adapt to is the style of play against the guy at the other side of the net.....

You hit the nail on the head, Babblelot.  How these players are taught to play / are developed has more to do with the current malais, and whilst court surfaces/balls/racquet technology etc will of course impinge upon the result, how they play is what matters.  It's interesting how beautifully Haas demonstrated that "like for like" needn't be the paradigm.

Nevermind Haas, Tommy is one of a kind in things like that. I'll post this again, because its priceless and spot on analysis:


Robbie Koenig Analyses Haas In Miami


Now, I want to see that same thing with some of these youngsters. When I see it  I'll have something to hope for in the future.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 09:06:27 PM by Lugburz »
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Offline dmastous

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #154 on: July 16, 2013, 08:45:46 PM »
I think in terms of strategy, it is. But in terms of strength and talent, it will never be as boring as the WTA. It may come close, but men are much stronger (naturally) and more capable of good racquet work than the women, for the most part.
So while it's become a corner to corner baseline game, the men still hit harder, move faster, and generally play better than the women.

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Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #155 on: July 16, 2013, 08:56:00 PM »
I think in terms of strategy, it is. But in terms of strength and talent, it will never be as boring as the WTA. It may come close, but men are much stronger (naturally) and more capable of good racquet work than the women, for the most part.
So while it's become a corner to corner baseline game, the men still hit harder, move faster, and generally play better than the women.

Valid points and also understandable. Of course that men will always hit harder, move faster, be stronger etc..

Here, I was primarily thinking about one-dimensional tennis, you can call it strategy, tactics or whatever.
Players playing predictable points, turning into robots with no tendency to attack but to wait until one finally loses his breath. And there's a huge roar by the crowd. The more you are tired, the bigger crowd respond you get  ..-)

Still there is hope. There are some youngsters who beats these barriers.
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #156 on: July 17, 2013, 12:16:26 PM »
I am constantly amazed at the consistently poor quality of service among the top 10.  Sure, on occasion the top 4, including Raf can light it up for parts of a match.  I wonder why it is, that someone who can bring on both deliveries with variety and disguise on a regular basis hasn't popped up?  I guess that's why I have a soft spot for Milos and JJ.  I've got my fingers crossed that they can put together the other pieces of the tennis puzzle that will take them to the next level.
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #157 on: July 18, 2013, 08:59:33 PM »
I am constantly amazed at the consistently poor quality of service among the top 10.  Sure, on occasion the top 4, including Raf can light it up for parts of a match.  I wonder why it is, that someone who can bring on both deliveries with variety and disguise on a regular basis hasn't popped up?  I guess that's why I have a soft spot for Milos and JJ.  I've got my fingers crossed that they can put together the other pieces of the tennis puzzle that will take them to the next level.

It's fair to say that both Berdych and Tsonga could produce some good serves + variety if that's what you meant. Also Fed ofc.

I'm indifferent to Milos tbh but I have high hopes for Jerzy who has much better game imo
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #158 on: July 19, 2013, 05:21:26 AM »
Both Berdych and Tsonga have problems consistently producing big deliveries when the chips are down.  Could it be because both are known to have some mental strength issues?
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: Is ATP slowly turning into WTA?
« Reply #159 on: July 19, 2013, 08:53:57 AM »
Both Berdych and Tsonga have problems consistently producing big deliveries when the chips are down.  Could it be because both are known to have some mental strength issues?

Probably, it's a shame though, because both are talented enough to trouble anyone with their tennis.
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