Author Topic: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets  (Read 2763 times)

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Offline sid

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2013, 04:27:37 AM »
Alex has nailed how the game is today
 
(Players had to adjust to current conditions. People didn't want to see any more this scenario ... 1. serve 2. run to the net/volley 3. finish the point.Modern players are 'products' of modern surfaces.)
 
Babs if you don't like tennis go watch somthing different.
enough said

Online Babblelot

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2013, 04:55:27 AM »
Illiterate moron...
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Offline sid

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2013, 05:11:02 AM »
Illiterate moron...

Grow up Babs,have you nothing better to do than be rude.

Online Babblelot

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2013, 05:20:59 AM »
sid, I'd quote you if you ever said anything memorable.

Still waiting...
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2013, 05:27:33 AM »

(Players had to adjust to current conditions. People didn't want to see any more this scenario ... 1. serve 2. run to the net/volley 3. finish the point.Modern players are 'products' of modern surfaces.)


it's not that simple.

They got rid of carpet. They slowed down most surfaces, there's almost no grass season, even what's on grass there are only like 3-4 weeks in a years that's played on REAL grass.
All of this produced youngers to play marathon men tennis at what cost. They realized single handed backhand is not efficient as 2 handed(although debatable) so its pretty much extinct right now.

I find 30+ rallies(grinding/pushing) with no tendency to attach BORING AS HELL tennis, and I'm really doubting that the majority of the fans like it.

But who does? Can we turn to the media and marketing? They sure benefit the most with long matches zooming in their fancy brands every second, so many sponsors need to be mentioned/shown on TV.

Tennis is really dying due to this, because I really don't see any evolution of tennis in this consuming society ridden by the media.

Everything today is turned into dramatization and entertainment. Players are just the tools of these snobs who alter the sport so they can benefit from it.
Thank god that there are still active players who defy such things. Uncompromising and clean tennis is what I wanna see more.
Maybe the fans will soon realize its not about quantity(match length) but about quality shotmaking. Most of these fans are too brainwashed by the media and their perception of the tennis, unfortunately.
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Online Babblelot

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2013, 05:48:39 AM »
I think the only problem the media has with tennis is that they are forced to move the conclusion of the match to a sister station because Americans would rather watch "Desperate Housewives." That is a real problem for networks. Aside from that, I disagree with what you say, Lug. Tennis is gaining momentum in the US and around the world. But as Wertheim cautions, people should take care not to be tone deaf to obvious byproducts of new tennis: length and injuries.

I also disagree with who likes 30 shot rallies. New fans obviously do. Why shouldn't they? They've never seen a tennis match before.

herc is right.

Nothing is going to change about the game; we're past the point of no return.

Best of 3 vs Best of 5

That's all that remains.

I don't like it, but with the current state of tennis, to not change is just impractical.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 05:50:17 AM by Babblelot »
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2013, 06:04:27 AM »
Yeah I wasn't blaiming them, but their influence is too strong on the people today.
 So if you have some commentator saying things like 'best tennis ever, amazing tennis' etc everytime they see 30+rallies and finally finish the point off, the people will insta agree, because after all they are the ones who know their job :whistle: But seriously, they don't.
They just don't realize for example that 'simple' chip and charge won point is much more amazing and much more difficult to produce.

Back to the topic. 3 or 5 sets. Hmmm. I don't know I might be with you on this one. As much as I can't believe I'd ever consider changing slams to best of 3, maybe it is the the way to go if the conditions keep on harming the sport and injuring the players.
But I dunno, best of 5 is tradition I like  :Confused:   

edit: so you really believe the majority of fans like long defensive matches? But what about old school fans? They went into hiding?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 06:07:28 AM by Lugburz »
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Online Babblelot

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2013, 06:21:26 AM »
Yeah I wasn't blaiming them, but their influence is too strong on the people today.
 So if you have some commentator saying things like 'best tennis ever, amazing tennis' etc everytime they see 30+rallies and finally finish the point off, the people will insta agree, because after all they are the ones who know their job :whistle: But seriously, they don't.
They just don't realize for example that 'simple' chip and charge won point is much more amazing and much more difficult to produce.

Back to the topic. 3 or 5 sets. Hmmm. I don't know I might be with you on this one. As much as I can't believe I'd ever consider changing slams to best of 3, maybe it is the the way to go if the conditions keep on harming the sport and injuring the players.
But I dunno, best of 5 is tradition I like  :Confused:   

edit: so you really believe the majority of fans like long defensive matches? But what about old school fans? They went into hiding?

So true! I quoted Brad Gilbert earlier. He and Pam Shriver were talking about a record number of 30 ball rallies and how this sets up to be the greatest match ever. Salesmen all, and you have to sell the product you're given. Couldn't agree more with you about the selling of the sport.

I'd feel safer with old school fans than kids. We're not going anywhere. Kids have ADD. Their favorite player loses 12 matches in a year instead of 6 and they're gone.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 06:23:04 AM by Babblelot »
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2013, 06:37:50 AM »
Selling the sport is so obvious to a point that has become laughable and lame. They try to be always diplomatic and unbiased, but I just know that's not how they feel. 
They are all part of the industry not wanting to raise any dust praising one and criticizing the other. FFS speak your mind, not something you've been instructed to say to sell the sport and 'unconsciously'brainwashing the masses.Like we don't have eyes to judge the sport the way we see it.
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Online Babblelot

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2013, 06:44:35 AM »
Selling the sport is so obvious to a point that has become laughable and lame. They try to be always diplomatic and unbiased, but I just know that's not how they feel. 
They are all part of the industry not wanting to raise any dust praising one and criticizing the other. FFS speak your mind, not something you've been instructed to say to sell the sport and 'unconsciously'brainwashing the masses.Like we don't have eyes to judge the sport the way we see it.

Exactly. That's why I don't read much by tennis writers or, if I do, criticize the s**t out of the load they sent to print. I think I've proven that to at least one person here  :whistle:

But people actually do have to be told what they saw and what to think about it.
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Offline huntingyou

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2013, 10:56:04 AM »
The last era of tennis has given us so many memorable matches like the one we saw yesterday that's it's pretty ridiculous and petty to keep complaining about the "state" of the game. You guys talk like if a "God" came down from a mountain many years ago and gave you the tenets of how tennis "should" be play. GTFOH   There is no SHOULD, the only law it's WINNING and today's best are the best at that.

You are free to like what you like but it's silly to expect others to see it your way and then complain at every opportunity. Why Haas is not in the final? Why he has never made a GS final? The  funny thing is Haas is a BASELINER......just like today's best and although his 1HBH makes him "special"; the guy makes a living from the back of the court. When he start S&V and C&C give me a call will you.


and what's the deal with 30+ rallies rant? I don't remember such occurrence as often as it's criticized by certain posters. Did we had one yesterday that went to 30? Maybe such posters should participate on sea fishing board instead and enjoy the brevity. ..-)


We are the "end" of the greatest era tennis has ever seen and soon you will go back to mediocrity and boredom. Stay still!

Offline FedFanForever

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2013, 11:25:51 AM »
Babs is just bitter that his old 1980s S&V tennis is dead forever. Welcome to the uber-baseline era.
Then we will fight in the shade.

Offline Rafa816

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2013, 12:13:24 PM »
Yeah I wasn't blaiming them, but their influence is too strong on the people today.
 So if you have some commentator saying things like 'best tennis ever, amazing tennis' etc everytime they see 30+rallies and finally finish the point off, the people will insta agree, because after all they are the ones who know their job :whistle: But seriously, they don't.
They just don't realize for example that 'simple' chip and charge won point is much more amazing and much more difficult to produce.

Back to the topic. 3 or 5 sets. Hmmm. I don't know I might be with you on this one. As much as I can't believe I'd ever consider changing slams to best of 3, maybe it is the the way to go if the conditions keep on harming the sport and injuring the players.
But I dunno, best of 5 is tradition I like  :Confused:   

edit: so you really believe the majority of fans like long defensive matches? But what about old school fans? They went into hiding?


So true! I quoted Brad Gilbert earlier. He and Pam Shriver were talking about a record number of 30 ball rallies and how this sets up to be the greatest match ever. Salesmen all, and you have to sell the product you're given. Couldn't agree more with you about the selling of the sport.

I'd feel safer with old school fans than kids. We're not going anywhere. Kids have ADD. Their favorite player loses 12 matches in a year instead of 6 and they're gone.


I don't know what match you're referring to, but the thing is that 30+ shot rallies in a match like Simon/Monfils are completely different that 30+ shot rallies in a match like Nole/Rafa. Not all long rallies are long because of pushers. Nole and Rafa, when they play each other, usually have tons of long rallies that are long because both of them refuse to give up the point, and they just keep pulling out amazing shots. For example:

Djokovic & Nadal Best Point in Tennis History US OPEN Fianl 2011


(Ignore the title, I don't agree that it's the best point in history) This rally is 31 shots, but it's not two people just hitting back and forth. It's Nadal playing ridiculous defense and Nole pounding down amazing shots one after the other. Or the first point here:

US Open 2010 - F - Nadal vs Djokovic


It's a long rally as well, but they aren't just blocking it back and forth. They're both making great shots.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2013, 01:30:04 PM »
Lol

You guys need to read my Part II posts from yesterday where I said repeatedly that today's tennis is here to stay.  I'm not calling for changes to equipment or surface speed.

All I said is do away with Best of 5 sets. I won't feel cheated at all if an epic match goes 3 1/2 hours instead of 5 or more. 

Guess what? You won't either.

Think about the upside: you'll have more time to devote to updating your signatures.



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« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 01:32:10 PM by Babblelot »
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Online Babblelot

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2013, 01:45:17 PM »
I know it's hard to read or think for yourselves when you rely on some idiot to do it for you...of course, the idiot hasn't bothered reading, either.

Alex and I have gone through this several times. Nowhere EVER have I advocated for the dumbs**t  things he and his lapdog sid have said I want. Of course, the rest of you only follow the lead of the idiot brigade.
I don't want a return to servefest or S&V. :toot:

I DO want to see more aggressive play and all-court players.

I DO want to see the duration of matches shortened.

(...OMG! That's all he wants??? I thought Alex said he only wants to see servefest S&V tennis from 1979  :confused1:
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 01:47:08 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline August

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2013, 01:48:09 PM »
The good thing in abandoning Bo5 would be that it would take away some of the physicality of the game.

But, just like the big crowd loves the 70-shot rallies, they love the 7-hour matches with the last man standing winning. Then they can say that was the greatest sports performance ever.

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Online Babblelot

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2013, 02:03:35 PM »
The good thing in abandoning Bo5 would be that it would take away some of the physicality of the game.

But, just like the big crowd loves the 70-shot rallies, they love the 7-hour matches with the last man standing winning. Then they can say that was the greatest sports performance ever.

I say TV will have the last word on the length of the match.

I think you've met all of the Americans who watch the AO here at T4U. Wimbledon and the US Open, networks will be watching those closely.

Nadal and his fans complain about the length of the season because it's too demanding on the body the way the game is played today. It's really the 5 set matches that have derailed his career. Seems his fans would have caught on by now... But that's an argument for Rafa fans. Injuries are someone else's focal point, not mine.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 02:14:57 PM by Babblelot »
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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2013, 02:10:48 PM »
Rafito, don't be so ridiculous.

Go find the 3rd set of 2013 RG SF between Rafa and Nole. It's 37' of crap that never should have been played since it wasn't contested. And yet, ESPN was dubbing that match as arguably the greatest match ever played on clay. And I'm sure you parroted those comments because that's what people do.

The majority of that match was crap. It did morph into a very good match, then Nole's mind took a dump and he tossed the match away in epic fashion.

Look at yesterday's SF between Nole and Delpo. Nole played so poorly that Delpo was able to extend it the distance. Nole was trying to line up his shots and just misfired time after time. It had nothing to do with Delpo, either. With Delpo's power, forced and unforced errors were easy to discern. Nole just missed and missed and missed again.

But wait, ESPN was calling that should-have-been-over-a-long-time-ago slopfest  one of the greatest matches ever played at Wimbledon!! And you believe it  ..-)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 02:14:07 PM by Babblelot »
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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2013, 02:19:15 PM »
Rafito, this is what most points between the 30 shot rallies look like. I'll post this since you refuse to. Look how much time they waste between points they're so tired...

really bad tennis players


« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 02:20:59 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline huntingyou

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2013, 02:33:25 PM »
Rafito, don't be so ridiculous.

Go find the 3rd set of 2013 RG SF between Rafa and Nole. It's 37' of crap that never should have been played since it wasn't contested. And yet, ESPN was dubbing that match as arguably the greatest match ever played on clay. And I'm sure you parroted those comments because that's what people do.

The majority of that match was crap. It did morph into a very good match, then Nole's mind took a dump and he tossed the match away in epic fashion.

Look at yesterday's SF between Nole and Delpo. Nole played so poorly that Delpo was able to extend it the distance. Nole was trying to line up his shots and just misfired time after time. It had nothing to do with Delpo, either. With Delpo's power, forced and unforced errors were easy to discern. Nole just missed and missed and missed again.

But wait, ESPN was calling that should-have-been-over-a-long-time-ago slopfest  one of the greatest matches ever played at Wimbledon!! And you believe it  ..-)

TV guys are idiots and would say anything to fill the void, especially americans but that's not the point of this thread.

I thought yesterday match was a great match full of amazing tennis, drama and some funny moments as well. I don't know man but I guess your standards for good tennis is flawless, fast points and always good tactics. These people are human and I don't recall past greats playing at that level either. We are talking match right?

Now, individual performances; that's easier to get because you only need one player hitting a high level; not both at the same time and since you understand tennis better than most you realize both players hitting a high level simultaneously it's very rare. 

The Rafa/Nole SF lacked the quality for most of the match for it to be considered great........never the less, the drama that those two generate, especially at RG makes then pretty memorable. The end of the 4 set and 5 set had both players hitting ridiculous shots. Just listen to the crowd!


At the end of the day "beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder"  so you might as well hold your breath because most people just don't see it your way.