Author Topic: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets  (Read 4281 times)

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Online Babblelot

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #60 on: July 08, 2013, 01:15:21 PM »
Let's just look at trends.

1. racquet and string tech are producing more and more power, spin, and control each year

2. courts are being slowed and made more uniform

3. the tennis season is getting longer

4. match duration is increasing

5. physical demands are greater

6. injuries are on the rise

7. Best of 5 sets are being replaced by Best of 3


Now everyone can be unhappy  :rofl_2:
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #61 on: July 08, 2013, 01:21:29 PM »
Let's just look at trends.

2. courts are being slowed and made more uniform

That's one of the main reasons I have problem with. We freaking already had variety on surfaces, clay for slow, medium hc for medium speed, hc for fast, indoor carpet for super fast and grass for uber fast.
So why the f slowing them down?? and why getting rid of indoor carpet etc...
 They wanted to have more match length by drawing more drama and entertainment to the sport.
Seriously the speed of Wimbly, Miami, IW etc is just laughable.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 01:24:48 PM by Lugburz »
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Offline Clay Death

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #62 on: July 08, 2013, 01:23:49 PM »
negative. the courts are being speeded up now.
 
 
next.
 
also the runaway speed of the game is not entirely a function of technology:
 
 
most of the gains in speed and power are coming from the athletes. they are taller, bigger, and stronger than ever. and they work harder than ever on their fitness except for nadal of course. he rather jack off until the cows come home with his poker, golf, fishing, cooking, and shopping for groceries of all things.
 
the damn fool doesn't want to compete like a gladiator anymore.
 
 
 
the average height of a touring pro in the top 100 is rapidly approaching 6 foot 3.
 
 
 
they also don't hit the ball like they used to. now they launch themselves at the ball and attack it.
 
 
 
better go peddle that "slowing down the courts" argument somewhere else. it aint working here old sport.
  :)) :))
 
 
you people are also not taking the athletic ability of the players into account. a guy like andy or nole can englulf the damn court with his movement. there is almost no place to hit. so of course the ball is going to keep coming back
 
even ferru--while approaching age 55--- can move like the wind.
 
 
who is next?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 01:24:40 PM by Clay Death »

Online Babblelot

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #63 on: July 08, 2013, 01:33:51 PM »
Let's just look at trends.

2. courts are being slowed and made more uniform

That's one of the main reasons I have problem with. We freaking already had variety on surfaces, clay for slow, medium hc for medium speed, hc for fast, indoor carpet for super fast and grass for uber fast.
So why the f slowing them down?? and why getting rid of indoor carpet etc...
 They wanted to have more match length by drawing more drama and entertainment to the sport.
Seriously the speed of Wimbly, Miami, IW is just laughable.

My problem is #1

1. racquet and string tech are producing more and more power, spin, and control each year

If you don't dial back the tech, I'm afraid #2 is mute. You have to dial back the tech before you worry about court speeds. The combo would be ideal.

I'm watching Isner-Harrison now. The first 8 games were big serving easy holds. Now they are working their way into the match. Baseline rallies   :rofl_2: :Confused: ..-) :\
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 01:34:30 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #64 on: July 08, 2013, 01:38:27 PM »
It depends, not all racquets go for more power. There's variety of it you can choose, court speed is a given. You have to adapt to it.

Perfect example for me is Blake's sudden downfall and Haas-Ferrer Miami semis. Jeez if that court was any faster Haas could have taken it in straights.

I don't like Isner at all, he depends only on his 1st serve and if that doesn't go all well he goes all passive, seen it enough.
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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #65 on: July 08, 2013, 01:39:07 PM »
negative. the courts are being speeded up now.
 

The only court I heard that was sped up was AO. They got the message. 6 hour finals are stupid.

No one else has sped up the courts.
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #66 on: July 08, 2013, 01:42:02 PM »
herc you really believe they sped up the courts  :confused1:

AO, ok, but really??
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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #67 on: July 08, 2013, 01:47:41 PM »
herc you really believe they sped up the courts  :confused1:

AO, ok, but really??

And let's not get carried away with how much AO was sped up. But it was sped up a little.


Lug, the problem with Isner is, he's the 2x defending champion at Newport. The way he plays is good enough to win tour titles.

----------
Harrison just S&V'd!!!! lol His volleys aren't good enough
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #68 on: July 08, 2013, 01:50:33 PM »

Lug, the problem with Isner is, he's the 2x defending champion at Newport. The way he plays is good enough to win tour titles.


Yeah obviously, but I tend to avoid his matches at all costs.
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Offline Clay Death

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #69 on: July 08, 2013, 01:52:30 PM »
grass at wimby was a little bit faster this year.
 
 
rome masters, RG, and a few other clay courts are playing faster.
 
 
I read somewhere that they were trying to speed up flushing meadows and also the Australian open.
 
 
 
 
it doesn't matter anyway. the runaway speed and power of the game is going to easily outpace the speed of the courts anyway to a point where they would again be forced to slow down the courts.
 
 
 
you see a few people here and all those worthless, legless, spineless, toothless chimpanzees at mtf just don't matter in terms of statistics.
 
together they make a very small sample size. who gives a damn if they don't like the way the game is being played.
 
they just don't get it. the sport has changed and you cant go back.
 
 
100 years ago midgets played the game in long pants and with wooden racquets that had a sweet sport the size of a dime.
 
they also played on sufaces that were horrible. you couldnt really afford to let the ball bounce too much. you had no choice but to rush the net.
 
 
speeding up the courts simply wont work. the war has to be waged from the baseline today no matter how fast the courts are.
 
and as I said before, the vast majority of the speed and power of the game is coming from the athletes themselves.
 
 
it is not coming from the new technologies.
 
for the last time, you cant volley what you cant see.
 
 
 
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 01:54:19 PM by Clay Death »

Offline Lugburz

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #70 on: July 08, 2013, 01:58:11 PM »
Rome is faster and Madrid is faster sure, but those are clay events. Thats also wrong but its also completely different. Clay is clay, you don't get to 2nd week and have tremendously slower courts like on grass.

The thing is they shouldn't have messed with the courts in the 1st place, we already had plenty of variety.

Also yes they might have sped up Wimbly this year but only in comparison to last year not the way Wimbly was. Its still way slower even in the 1st week, not to mention 2nd week.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 01:59:16 PM by Lugburz »
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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #71 on: July 08, 2013, 01:58:37 PM »
grass at wimby was a little bit faster this year.
 
 
rome masters, RG, and a few other clay courts are playing faster.
 
 
I read somewhere that they were trying to speed up flushing meadows and also the Australian open.
 
 

Wimbledon said they did absolutely NOTHING to change the courts. This was included in their official statement in response to all the players slipping.


If you're going to make claims base on "I heard" you better have heard right. Obviously not.

I'd love for you to source you claims about speeding up all of those tournaments, especially the clay tournaments. The US Open claim should be easy for you to find if it exists.

Thank you
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #72 on: July 08, 2013, 02:00:58 PM »
thx Babbs I didn't know that, I thought it was just a bit faster due to players statement and all the slippery thing.
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Offline August

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #73 on: July 08, 2013, 02:10:27 PM »
I think the improving racquet/string technology is a big issue. Tennis would be very different if it was still played with wooden racquets. And no, I don't suggest returning to wooden racquets. It would change the game too much and people would complain about bad tennis with bad racquets. But I'd love to freeze the racquet development. We can just imagine the 2050s racquets. I think the racquets are good as they are now.

BUT, if anything like that would be suggested, I guess racquet manufacturers would disagree. They want to make better racquets to keep sales up. And racquets keep on improving.

grass at wimby was a little bit faster this year.
 
 
rome masters, RG, and a few other clay courts are playing faster.
 
 
I read somewhere that they were trying to speed up flushing meadows and also the Australian open.

Well, Wimby, USO, and AO had already been slowed down. I think AO had faster balls this year to avoid a 7-hour final.

And speeding up clay is basically what ATP wants. They want to see same guys in the semis of all slams, fastest surfaces need to be slowed down, slower surfaces need to be speeded up.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 02:15:52 PM by August »

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Online Babblelot

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #74 on: July 08, 2013, 02:13:58 PM »
Look how easy it is to back up claims!

Quote
"The courts are prepared exactly the same as they have been every year, and we haven't changed anything, so there's no reason why they should be any slippier this year than any other year," Wimbledon head groundskeeper Neil Stubley told ESPN's Tom Rinaldi on Thursday. "We have a tried and tested method of how we produce our grass courts, and we're fully confident in that. We were last year, and we are this year."

And yet ...

"They're saying there's nothing different, but the eye test tells you, 'God darn, there's a lot of people falling,' " said ESPN analyst and former top-five player Brad Gilbert.


http://proxy.espn.go.com/espnw/news-commentary/article/9429441/2013-wimbledon-slippery-courts-scrutiny

Not only were these courts prepared the same this year as last, they haven't been changed in years.

Provide some links to substantiate your claims, herc. It's easy.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 02:15:31 PM by Babblelot »
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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #75 on: July 08, 2013, 02:17:24 PM »
I think the improving racquet/string technology is a big issue. Tennis would be very different if it was still played with wooden racquets. And no, I don't suggest returning to wooden racquets. It would change the game too much and people would complain about bad tennis with bad racquets. But I'd love to freeze the racquet development. We can just imagine the 2050s racquets. I think the racquets are good as they are now.

BUT, if anything like that would be suggested, I guess racquet manufacturers would disagree. They want to make better racquets to keep sales up. And racquets keep on improving.

grass at wimby was a little bit faster this year.
 
 
rome masters, RG, and a few other clay courts are playing faster.
 
 
I read somewhere that they were trying to speed up flushing meadows and also the Australian open.

Well, Wimby, USO, and AO had already been slowed down. I think AO had faster balls this year to avoid a 7-hour final.

And speeding up clay is basically what ATP wants. They want to see same guys in the semis of all slams, fastest surfaces need to be slowed down, slower surfaces need to be speeded up.

I always go back to 1997 technology. In 1997, half of the Top 10 were baseliners and half were S&V. And no one complained about the lack of variety...
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Offline Clay Death

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #76 on: July 08, 2013, 02:19:16 PM »
grass at wimby was a little bit faster this year.
 
 
rome masters, RG, and a few other clay courts are playing faster.
 
 
I read somewhere that they were trying to speed up flushing meadows and also the Australian open.
 
 

Wimbledon said they did absolutely NOTHING to change the courts. This was included in their official statement in response to all the players slipping.


If you're going to make claims base on "I heard" you better have heard right. Obviously not.

I'd love for you to source you claims about speeding up all of those tournaments, especially the clay tournaments. The US Open claim should be easy for you to find if it exists.

Thank you



what part of this statement do you not undersatand?


they can play on ice and they would still have to wage the battle from the baseline. you cant volley what you cant see.


what you people are suggesting is that nobody ever goes to the net if they speed up the courts.



I don't have to make any claims. I have my own eyes to see what is going on. I can also look at the stats.


my information suggests that the following courts are playing a tiny bit faster:


1. RG
2. rome masters
3. Madrid masters
4. the u.s. open
5. cincy masters
6. Australian open
7. Wimbledon



I am not selling anything here. go do your own research and find out. I trust my own eyes and the eyes of the players before anything.



what you people also fail to take into account is that it is not the bloody organizers who are slowing down the grass at Wimbledon.  its the players.


simply because of the way the war is waged today. long battles from the baseline wear out the grass by the 2nd week. only the service boxes remain somewhat unaffected.


maybe you people should try another angle: how about doing away with grass since it is not a viable surface for tennis.

or make Wimbledon a 1 week event with a best of 3 sets foremat. that is the only way you are going to get faster grass.



nobody was watching Wimbledon a few years ago. the world did not care about serving expeditions. there was no tennis being played. that is why they looked for a newer variety of glass in an effort to slow down the playing surface. people want to see tennis being played out there.



only now it does not matter. the runaway speed and power of the game far outpaces the speed of the courts.  they can speed up the courts and soon we would have exactly same complaint from some of you. the players would quickly adjust but they would still play from the baseline.



to claim that you people know more than those who run this sport is beyond ridiculous.

again its just a small sample size so it means nothing.


who cares if the mtf chimps and a few folks here believe. its what the world believes that matters. and those who run  the sport and manage it that matters.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 02:24:17 PM by Clay Death »

Offline Clay Death

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #77 on: July 08, 2013, 02:19:44 PM »
excellent thread babbs. keep them coming.
 
 
 
 :)) :))

Offline August

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #78 on: July 08, 2013, 02:26:37 PM »
what you people also fail to take into account is that it is not the bloody organizers who are slowing down the grass at Wimbledon.  its the players.


simply because of the way the war is waged today. long battles from the baseline wear out the grass by the 2nd week. only the service boxes remain somewhat unaffected.


maybe you people should try another angle: how about doing away with grass since it is not a viable surface for tennis.

or make Wimbledon a 1 week event with a best of 3 sets foremat. that is the only way you are going to get faster grass.

They just shouldn't use the CC before the QFs. Then you could have all the remaining matches on fresh grass.

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Re: There is a light at the end of the tunnel Part II: Best of 3 Sets
« Reply #79 on: July 08, 2013, 02:30:37 PM »
excellent thread babbs. keep them coming.
 
 
 
 :)) :))

 :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

But my informants laugh at the claim the any courts were sped up. I have ties to the Itanian organizers. They are howling over the thought that Rome's courts were sped up  ;-()

Quote
I tribunali accelerato? Chi ti Crappin '! Ridicolo! RSPRIMC!

-Rome 1000 ATP organizers


Anyway, my pet peeve is technology. I'm glad to see August believes it's the "big issue," too. So I want to steer this away from court speed as being the end all.

And, in the end, as much as I don't like it either, the only way to shorten the duration of matches is to go to Best of 3 because, I agree with you, herc, we are beyond the point of no return.
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