Author Topic: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?  (Read 2049 times)

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Offline Orange Wombat

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Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« on: April 08, 2013, 06:40:27 PM »
If you look at a variety of left-handed players- Melzer, Nieminen, Bellucci, Klizan, Lopez, etc. you will see that there forehands all have a large amount of spin on them. Even S&V players like Llodra and Muller. Is this just a coincidence? We'll see.  ;-()

It has been scientifically proven that left-handers are more adept at using their right hand, than right-handers are at using their left hand. I don't know why this is, it just it.

So I tried an experiment. I (right-hander) played tennis with my friend using my left hand. I've been practicing for a while the other hand, so I'm pretty good at playing left-handed. What I found, is that it is very hard to get rid of the spin on my lefty forehand. With less coordination, you hit looser, which means generally there is more topspin on the ball. On my less coordinated hand, I naturally hit with more spin.

Rafael Nadal was in a similar situation. He is naturally a right-hander, believe it or not. Uncle Toni made him switch to left. Why? Probably because it would be more natural for him to get more spin on the ball lefty. When you have more control of your hand, your wrist is automatically more rigid, like it or not. Dull switched to left hand, allowing him to hit with loose wrist and generate insane amounts of topspin. And we all know Dull's game is based around topspin solely.

Now, left-handers have slightly less control over their dominant hand than right-handers do of their right hand. (In exchange of greater control of the other hand of course). Maybe something on the left side of the brain is responsible for these changes. Maybe not. Whatever. But it is possible that is natural for these lefties (Melzer, Nieminen, Falla, Bellucci, Klizan, Lopez, even Melzer's younger brother) to hit with a looser wrist, thus allowing more spin.

You comprehend?  :))

Online Babblelot

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2013, 06:59:09 PM »
You just made an anecdotal observation. Look up the definition of experiment then get back to us.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 06:59:42 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline Orange Wombat

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2013, 07:03:35 PM »
You just made an anecdotal observation. Look up the definition of experiment then get back to us.

You must be a left-hander who hits with a lot of topspin and is in denial :dunno:

Offline FreakyGOAT > CD

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2013, 07:37:39 PM »
You just made an anecdotal observation. Look up the definition of experiment then get back to us.

Must you always be so pessimistic? I have yet to see one non-deprecating post from you. What the hell do you expect, some elaborate sequence of trials using hundreds of people to make sure that lefties naturally hit with more spin?

As for the topic at hand: Bellucci does hit his forehand with a lot of spin, so I'm not sure he goes into the category of flat lefties.

From experience (OH NO! Maybe I shouldn't be saying this because I might offend Babs with my forbidden "anecdotal observation"?  :zipped:) I know that my dad and my brother are both naturally lefties and they can't hit spin to save their lives. Though, they both have continental grips on their forehand so they tend to hit flat. I, on the other hand, am a righty with a semi-western grip which is more extreme. I tend to hit with tons more topspin than both my dad and my brother due to my more extreme grip. On my backhand, however I use a continental grip and can't get spin to save my life. So I do believe that it is the grip and not the hand the determines spin. If I tried picking up a racquet with my left hand and using a grip that feels the best then I would probably be choosing a grip that is very extreme (at least for lefty standards) because I'm used to a right-oriented grip. I imagine someone like Nadal who switched would do the same. A naturally lefty would probably naturally be able to use a more common lefty (less flat) grip then  ;-()
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Offline Clay Death

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2013, 08:14:33 PM »
don't worry general freaky.
 
one of these days he wont have anybody left to talk to.
 
all I ever see from him is insulting and putting people down for nothing. for nothing.
 
for nothing other than to dishonestly make himself feel more important or more wise.
 
 
 
I piss away more tennis knowledge in a single standing than he can accumulate in a lifetime.
 
and that bothers the hell out of him.
 
 
people at the castle are the brightest minds I have seen at any tennis forums and yet he runs away from the castle.
 
this should be people`s first clue that he is scared of real tennis knowledge. he is afraid of the people at the castle.
 
so he lingers around here putting down anybody he can.
 
this is the same fool that put down his own forum.
 
he said---in no uncertain terms--that has to go to other forums to find people who can understand what he has to say about tennis.
 
really. I guess all the rest of us must have been born last night. and we are all watching underwater chess.
 
he will either wise up or I will make him wise up. its either help this forum grow or get the hell lost.
 
 
 
 :)) :)) :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

Offline FreakyGOAT > CD

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2013, 08:17:03 PM »
don't worry general freaky.
 
one of these days he wont have anybody left to talk to.
 
all I ever see from him is insulting and putting people down for nothing. for nothing.
 
for nothing other than to dishonestly make himself feel more important or more wise.
 
 
 
I piss away more tennis knowledge in a single standing than he can accumulate in a lifetime.
 
and that bothers the hell out of him.
 
 
people at the castle are the brightest minds I have seen at any tennis forums and yet he runs away from the castle.
 
this should be people`s first clue that he is scared of real tennis knowledge. he is afraid of the people at the castle.
 
so he lingers around here putting down anybody he can.
 
this is the same fool that put down his own forum.
 
he said---in no uncertain terms--that has to go to other forums to find people who can understand what he has to say about tennis.
 
really. I guess all the rest of us must have been born last night. and we are all watching underwater chess.
 
he will either wise up or I will make him wise up. its either help this forum grow or get the hell lost.
 
 
 
 :)) :)) :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

 :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

I'm going to have to agree with all of this  :)) :)) :))
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Offline Clay Death

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2013, 08:30:54 PM »
 :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

Offline Rafa816

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2013, 12:02:21 AM »
Eh, I think it's a coincidence. The reason Nadal has so much spin isn't because of his wrist. It's because of the way he hits the forehand. He uses the "Buggy Whip Shot" as it's sometimes called. His follow through is finished over his left shoulder instead of through the body and over his right shoulder. This form causes a ridiculous amount of spin. I can't say about the rest of the field you mentioned, though. And Fed is a righty and he has a ton of spin as well:

"The first guys we did were Sampras and Agassi. They were hitting forehands that in general were spinning about 1,800 to 1,900 revolutions per minute. Federer is hitting with an amazing amount of spin, too, right? 2,700 revolutions per minute. Well, we measured one forehand Nadal hit at 4,900. His average was 3,200."

^That's from a study that was done with high-speed imaging.

Also, Nadal is more ambidextrous than a natural righty. He does a few other things left-handed as well. Toni encouraged him to play tennis lefty because, due to all the reversal of spins and everything, it makes playing a lefty harder since they're more rare.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline Litotes

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2013, 02:27:08 AM »
I think lefties use more topspin because it pays off more for them as long as they're a small minority. Anything that works is clearly something you'll work more to implement in your own arsenal.
 
As a left-hander myself (with a very disappointing amount of topspin....), I guess the reason our right hand is better then righties' left ones is quite simple - many things in society are arranged around using your right hand. You will occasionally be forced to use it and so it will be trained some. A righty will very rarely be forced to use his left for anything.

Offline Rafa816

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2013, 03:13:01 AM »
Litotes speaks the truth. With things like stick shift in the US, eating habits of righties (which arm is in other people's way), for some musicians (piano, dulcimer, drums, etc.) the right hand drives the melody, etc. the right hand is trained for lefties to need to do things.

And your point about using top spin because it's effective makes sense as well. Like with Nadal, he plays tennis lefty because lefties present problems due to their minority status. When you're used to playing righties, you get into a rhythm of where to hit it (weaker side is USUALLY backhand, so you get used to hitting it there) and how to take the kick serve, top spin shots, etc. But everything is reversed as a lefty. The slice serve's and kick serve's directions are reversed. Even the flat serve has more directional advantage to go out wide on the ad court instead of the deuce court like righties' flat serves are. And top spin shots are also different directionally than a righty's top spin shots. Therefore, the more spin a lefty uses, the more it throws off their opponent. So it makes sense that lefties all learn to utilize spin.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline sid

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2013, 03:44:47 AM »
This could not have been said better about him he loves putting people down.
 
(all I ever see from him is insulting and putting people down for nothing. for nothing.
 
for nothing other than to dishonestly make himself feel more important or more wise.)

Offline Clay Death

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2013, 01:13:09 PM »
 :)) :))

Online Babblelot

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2013, 01:52:16 PM »
You just made an anecdotal observation. Look up the definition of experiment then get back to us.

You must be a left-hander who hits with a lot of topspin and is in denial :dunno:

How far can you go back? Greg Rusedski didn't hit with spin.

Don't most players, regardless of their dominant hand, hit with more spin today? Sorry, Wombat, I don't think there's much to this other than giving the others a platform to hi-jack this thread. It's good to see that herc and sid found Jesus!  :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:  Freaky, what you don't know is a lot.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 02:11:28 PM by Babblelot »
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Online Babblelot

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2013, 02:15:25 PM »
Lopez didn't start to come over his BH until he was in his late 20s.

I'm a righty that hits groundies like Llodra. Flat on the BH with spin on the FH.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 02:16:23 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline pawan89

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2013, 02:31:07 PM »
Quote from: Orange Wombat
It has been scientifically proven that left-handers are more adept at using their right hand, than right-handers are at using their left hand. I don't know why this is, it just it.

didn't know it was a proven thing but that makes sense. as Litotes pointed out a lot of things are righty-oriented so it might just be a culture thing. I am sure if there was a culture where lefties were the norm, they would be just as inept at using their right hand as normal righties are with their left.


Quote from: Orange Wombat
So I tried an experiment. I (right-hander) played tennis with my friend using my left hand. I've been practicing for a while the other hand, so I'm pretty good at playing left-handed. What I found, is that it is very hard to get rid of the spin on my lefty forehand. With less coordination, you hit looser, which means generally there is more topspin on the ball. On my less coordinated hand, I naturally hit with more spin.

Two things that intrigue me here. With less coordination, you hit looser - is that necessarily true? what do you mean by looser? Is your grip strength looser? (I know mine would be if I tried lefty, causing the racquet to shake on contact). Do you swing free-er / longer / loopier? It's easier to get power from your strong side on a short stroke because you can muscle it through, where-as on the weaker side a longer swing would generate the extra power and it'd impart top-spin if you have the right motion. Either way, I don't think I agree with "With less coordination you hit looser which means there's more topspin". Not saying it's not true for you but as a blanket statement it doesn't make sense.

And secondly, can you really compare if you are not as natural with your left hand as you are with your right hand?

This is really interesting topic, and my thoughts are along the same lines as what freakyman said: So I do believe that it is the grip and not the hand that determines spin. Another thing you might want to think about is the 90s early 2000s as well. The technology did not promote topspin as much as today and we had just as many flat hitting power lefties - was there any spin-trends there between lefties vs. righties? claycourters vs. fast-courters? I'm not sure. And lastly, if you want to go the route of actual numbers (if exist), Nadal might have the highest rpm today but if you take the top 10 rpm stats, how many lefties would you find on there? Federer uses a lot of topspin, as does Djokovic, Gasquet, Ferrer etc. It might be just due to the sheer number of righties but the amount of topspin might be interesting to study.


Offline Alex

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2013, 02:43:26 PM »
sorry guys, I'll try to make this very simple. left handed people eat their food with their left hand, right handed people eat their food by holding their spoon/fork in their right hand. this is so irrelevant. Now, Nadal is the one hitting with lots of topspin. Name one more 'left hander' who does the same thing?

Offline Orange Wombat

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2013, 02:53:04 PM »
sorry guys, I'll try to make this very simple. left handed people eat their food with their left hand, right handed people eat their food by holding their spoon/fork in their right hand. this is so irrelevant. Now, Nadal is the one hitting with lots of topspin. Name one more 'left hander' who does the same thing?

Melzer, Nieminen, Falla, Bellucci, Klizan, Stebe, Ramos, Muller, Lopez, the list goes on and on. Not to the same extreme as Nadal, but all of them have a similar forehand based on a 'curving the ball with spin' rather than straightforward flat-hitting.

I know most players hit with a lot of spin, lefty or righty. But can you name one left-handed professional player that hits flat to the same level as guys like Cilic, Del Potro, Tsonga, Isner, and Simon? No. All of them topspin their forehands. The other answers gave me the conclusion that it must be a strategical advantage for lefties.

Offline Orange Wombat

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2013, 02:59:32 PM »
You just made an anecdotal observation. Look up the definition of experiment then get back to us.

Must you always be so pessimistic? I have yet to see one non-deprecating post from you. What the hell do you expect, some elaborate sequence of trials using hundreds of people to make sure that lefties naturally hit with more spin?

As for the topic at hand: Bellucci does hit his forehand with a lot of spin, so I'm not sure he goes into the category of flat lefties.

From experience (OH NO! Maybe I shouldn't be saying this because I might offend Babs with my forbidden "anecdotal observation"?  :zipped:) I know that my dad and my brother are both naturally lefties and they can't hit spin to save their lives. Though, they both have continental grips on their forehand so they tend to hit flat. I, on the other hand, am a righty with a semi-western grip which is more extreme. I tend to hit with tons more topspin than both my dad and my brother due to my more extreme grip. On my backhand, however I use a continental grip and can't get spin to save my life. So I do believe that it is the grip and not the hand the determines spin. If I tried picking up a racquet with my left hand and using a grip that feels the best then I would probably be choosing a grip that is very extreme (at least for lefty standards) because I'm used to a right-oriented grip. I imagine someone like Nadal who switched would do the same. A naturally lefty would probably naturally be able to use a more common lefty (less flat) grip then  ;-()

I appreciate your so-called anecdote. I think I am biased because I have never played with a lefty person who hits flat, and it just struck me as curious for some reason. :)

Offline Alex

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2013, 03:50:25 PM »
Orange, my point is left or right it doesn't really matter that much. when I asked you that question 'name another one' I was kinda sarcastic and I do apologize. to answer your original question, no left-handers do not 'naturally' hit with more topspin. left or right, it really does not matter  :)

Offline FreakyGOAT > CD

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Re: Do left-handers naturally hit with more topspin?
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2013, 04:00:49 PM »
Orange, my point is left or right it doesn't really matter that much. when I asked you that question 'name another one' I was kinda sarcastic and I do apologize. to answer your original question, no left-handers do not 'naturally' hit with more topspin. left or right, it really does not matter  :)

 :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

He just completely bashes your point and now you were suddenly sarcastic? And how exactly did what you said prove that the hand doesn't matter?
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