Author Topic: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)  (Read 6979 times)

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Offline Slasher1985

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Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« on: April 18, 2013, 04:15:44 AM »
I actually managed to patch together rules and ranking points systems for the period 1973-1989. A lot of information is available for 1986-1989 (on ATP site player pages). But the system is clearly dependent on tournament prize money, so it was logical that I could reconstruct the points awarded between 1982-1989. I am positive this is correct so, I'm gonna use green for CONFIRMED.

For 1973-1981 I found out that a star system was used for tournaments and since I had the start (wikipedia page) and I had the end (for what I constructed) I was able to build the system as was used. I still need to confirm most of the stuff, but I'm almost sure they're correct, so I'm marking them with yellow for ALMOST SURE.

I managed to find out that the Bonus system was probably used since the start of the computer rankings, in its simplest form, and I found the information about the bonus system used between 84 and 89. Unfortunately, I still need to confirm the bonus point system between 1976 and 1983. I built an in-between form or two for it, but it's gonna be marked with red inside my table as UNCONFIRMED.

Also, since this project is going to contain the full Open Era rankings, I am going to go back before 1973 and start with the exact advent of the Open Era in 1968. This was even easier than expected, as I managed to find (also on wikipedia) the Grand Prix points system as were awarded in 1970, and I built upon that to recreate the increase in points between 1970-1972.

All that remained was 1968-1969 where I had to use creativity to award points less than the 1970 system. This period didn't have a Grand Prix, the number of open tournaments is scarce, so I used only 2 categories of tournaments (GS and regular). This is all invented to make the system work from the start and it does not go far in assuming the points, but I'm gonna use blue for INVENTED.

Up to come are the 1990+ which will be easier to find than the previous ones, but the data will take longer to construct. I already know a few places where to search.

SPECIAL THANKS:
Litotes - provided YE rankings with points and averages for 1976-1983.
asmazif - provided YE rankings by Lance Tingay for 1968-1971.
bry17may - provided link to a tournament database site that will prove useful in piecing together missing information.
Eduardo Puppo (CNN Espanol journalist) - provided 1976 and 1977 official ranking systems. Provided 1990 official ranking system, provided YE rankings with points and averages for 1973-1975 along with Grand Prix tournament lists.
JonG - provided 1973-1975 YE rankings with points and averages.

Here are the findings I have for now:



So, there are basically 5 periods here:
I. Pre-GP (1968-1969)
II. Pre-Computer Rankings (1970-1972)
III. Computer Group Period (1973-1975)
IV. Star System Period (1976-1981)
V. Prize Dependency Period (1982-1989)

WCT was part of the rankings between 1978 and 1981 and their prize money afforded them stars and allowing them to award points to players. From 1982 onwards, WCT broke away from the Grand Prix and WCT events never received ranking points again. The WCT ranking was available back then, but is not going to be taken into consideration here, because we are interesting in recreating the official rankings (with points) for everyone to be able to see them. Also, it is possible that I am going to identify errors made by the ATP in calculations, so, we may be able to see differences from the official rankings.

There's still some unclear stuff and the research will continue. When it's done, we can start walking this road, if you're with me. :))
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 02:07:02 PM by Slasher1985 »

Offline Litotes

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 06:03:49 AM »
 Marian, I have access to exact rankings pr year end 1976, 77 and 78. Not entirely complete, but for all top players and quite a bit down the list. Would they help you? Give you a few more measuring sticks :)

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2013, 06:43:13 AM »
It would be perfect if you can provide me with those. :))

I would have confirmation for those years. Thank you very much.

Offline Litotes

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 07:09:22 AM »
It would be perfect if you can provide me with those. :))

I would have confirmation for those years. Thank you very much.

I'm not sure how to upload PDF-files here. If you PM me an email address you will get them sent there :)

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2013, 08:41:35 AM »
I sent you my email through PM. Did you get it?

Offline Litotes

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 11:30:40 AM »
I sent you my email through PM. Did you get it?

Yes, and I sent back. Although I got the wrong address first time around so I had to try again. Did you get the 2nd attempt?

Offline FreakyGOAT > CD

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013, 04:37:16 PM »
Nice job Marv! Looks confusing enough, that's for sure  ;-()
Oh Sheesh Y'all T'was A Dream

Offline Clash

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 04:39:54 PM »
 :)
I'm only sleeping..

Offline Clay Death

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2013, 05:58:27 PM »
 :)) :)) :))

Offline Swish

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013, 06:03:54 PM »
This is really some undertaking.
 
I wouldn't know where to start, good job!!!  :cool:

Offline Clay Death

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2013, 06:23:52 PM »
 :)) :)) :))

Offline Orange Wombat

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2013, 07:13:54 PM »
I will read this later when I am thinking logically. I'm sure you did a great job, whatever it is  :)

Offline tennisville

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2013, 01:56:51 AM »
I hope to understand this , its looks tough really . So great job Marv  ://

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2013, 02:08:39 AM »
Thanks Litotes. Your lists have been tremendously helpful.

I have already discovered two things:
1. In 1976 only, the bonus points for beating top players was dependent on the difficulty and size of the draw.
2. From 1977 to 1981, they did this for tournament points as well. This rule causes the rankings to be extremely volatile during this period and extremely difficult to predict, so I will have to use a large quantity of mathematics knowledge to determine the exact values. These lists will help enough I think.

In 1982, when WCT went away, they did so exactly because of this volatile system, making their own rankings, where the system was clean of subjective rankings. Following on this event, the Grand Prix adapted and eliminated the difficulty of draw and size of draw rules.

Offline Litotes

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2013, 02:51:56 AM »
Glad to hear they came in handy  :)

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2013, 04:08:19 AM »
Well, this is interesting, as I have managed to crack 1976 a little.

First, I slightly modified the system to this:


It's clear that there are 6 stars in 1976, as there is one star for each 25K in the tournament prize pool. But I have also accounted for Bonus Points awarded to players by varying the draw size. Only the smallest draws were awarding 6 points to a 1-8 win, while GS awarded 18 points to a 1-8 win.

Another discovery is the player's choice to play WCT. If a player would choose only WCT and not play the American Circuit, WCT would count towards their rankings, and WCT tournaments (which were 1-Star were 2-Star despite their prize pool) would not award bonus points. This is the case of Borg. Nastase and Connors decided to play the American Circuit, and their WCT didn't count at all.

Also, tournaments with prize pools over 150K also did not count.

Now let's all count together Connors and Borg as I was surprised it did add up:
Jimmy Connors GP points:
Code: [Select]
1. W Birmingham 2 STAR 40p
[color=red]X Philadelphia WCT NOT COUNTED
X Boca Raton DEFAULTED[/color]
2. F Salisbury 2 STAR 30p
3. W Hampton 4 STAR 80p
4. F La Costa 3 STAR 60p
[color=red]X Palm Springs NOT COUNTED
X Houston WCT NOT COUNTED
X Denver WCT NOT COUNTED
X Las Vegas NOT COUNTED[/color]
5. W Nottingham 4 STAR 80p
6. QF Wimbledon 80p
7. W Washington 4 STAR 80p
8. W North Conway 2 STAR 40p
9. W Indianapolis 5 STAR 100p
10. QF Boston 5 STAR 25p
11. W US Open 160p
12. QF Los Angeles 5 STAR 25p
13. W Cologne 2 STAR 40p
14. SF Stockholm 6 STAR 60p
15. W Wembley 5 STAR 100p

TOTAL: 1000 points

Jimmy Connors bonus points:
Code: [Select]
Birmingham - beat Tanner - 6p
Hampton - beat Nastase - 6p
La Costa - beat Tanner - 4p
Nottingham - beat Stockton, Okker, Ramirez and Nastase - 4 + 8 + 8 + 12 = 32p
Wimbledon - beat Smith - 18p
Washington - beat Dibbs, Ramirez - 8 + 8 = 16p
North Conway - beat Dibbs, Ramirez - 8 + 8 = 16p
Indianapolis - beat Dibbs, Solomon = 12 + 8 = 20p
US Open - beat Gerulaitis, Kodes, Vilas and Borg = 6 + 6 + 18 + 18 = 48p
Cologne - beat Gottfried = 6p
Stockholm - beat Ramirez = 8p
Wembley - beat Smith, Gottfried, Tanner and Riessen = 9 + 3 + 6 + 6 = 24p

TOTAL: 204 points

JIMMY CONNORS: 1204 - 15 tournaments, like in the pdf
Bjorn Borg GP points:
Code: [Select]
1. QF Atlanta WCT 1 STAR 3p
2. F Philadelphia WCT 2 STAR 30p
3. W Toronto WCT 1 STAR 20p
4. SF Memphis WCT 1 STAR 10p
[color=red]X Palm Springs NOT COUNTED[/color]
5. W Sao Paulo WCT 1 STAR 20p
6. R16 Johannesburg WCT 1 STAR 0p
7. QF Monte Carlo WCT 1 STAR 3p
8. QF Stockholm WCT 1 STAR 3p
9. W Dallas WCT 1 STAR 20p
10. W Dusseldorf 3 STAR 60p
11. QF Roland Garros 80p
12. W Wimbledon 160p
13. W Boston 5 STAR 100p
14. F US Open 120p
15. QF Stockholm 6 STAR 30p
TOTAL: 659 points

Bjorn Borg bonus points:
Code: [Select]
Dusseldorf - beat Orantes = 12p
Wimbledon - beat Gottfried, Vilas, Tanner, Nastase = 18 + 12 + 6 + 18 = 54p
Boston - beat Dibbs, Solomon = 8 + 8 = 16p
US Open - beat Gotffried, Orantes, Nastase = 18 + 12 + 18 = 48p

TOTAL: 130 points

BJORN BORG: 789 - 15 tournaments, like in the pdf

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2013, 05:05:16 AM »
Now we're getting to something purely stupid.

Ilie Nastase is counted with 606 points and 14 tournaments. Now, no matter how I count, I get 16 tournaments for him. I don't know which two tournaments from 1976 didn't count for him.

As a matter of fact. I cannot count Connors anymore now either, because I realized that all WCT is counted in, except Challenger Cup, Grand Slam. Palm Springs and Las Vegas are also not counted, nor are the Masters. I counted Borg's, Orantes' and Ramirez's tournaments and they added up to the count in the pdf.

What am I missing here?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 05:23:00 AM by Slasher1985 »

Offline Litotes

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2013, 05:39:16 AM »
Now we're getting to something purely stupid.

Ilie Nastase is counted with 606 points and 14 tournaments. Now, no matter how I count, I get 16 tournaments for him. I don't know which two tournaments from 1976 didn't count for him.

As a matter of fact. I cannot count Connors anymore now either, because I realized that all WCT is counted in, except Challenger Cup, Grand Slam. Palm Springs and Las Vegas are also not counted, nor are the Masters. I counted Borg's, Orantes' and Ramirez's tournaments and they added up to the count in the pdf.

What am I missing here?

How many points does Nastase get for the 16? It should be possible to see which two are left out from this, say if he has 635 poings from 16 tournaments then there will be 29 in the two that doesn't count. If we then have a 12 and a 17 they will be prime candidates.

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2013, 05:57:37 AM »
I took it another way and noticed on the ITF site which tournaments don't appear on their 1976 calendar. Those tournaments were not recognized by the ILTF and were not counted for the rankings:

http://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/tournaments/men%27s-calendar.aspx?tour=&reg=&nat=&sur=&cate=AL&iod=&fromDate=01-12-1975&toDate=01-01-1977

Impressively, Nastase's calendar becomes:

X Monterrey WCT - NOT RECOGNIZED
1. Atlanta WCT
X Baltimore - NOT RECOGNIZED
X Philadelphia WCT - NOT RECOGNIZED
2. Toronto Indoors WCT
3. Salisbury
X WCT Challenger Cup - NOT COUNTED
X Little Rock - NOT RECOGNIZED
X Hampton - NOT RECOGNIZED

4. La Costa
5. Palm Springs (0 points anyway - DEFAULTED)
6. Caracas WCT
X Houston WCT - NOT RECOGNIZED
7. Stockholm WCT
8. Nottingham
9. Wimbledon
X Pepsi Grand Slam - NOT COUNTED
10. South Orange
11. US Open
12. Los Angeles
13. Hong Kong
14. Wembley

And now, Connors'

X Birmingham - NOT RECOGNIZED
X Philadephia WCT - NOT RECOGNIZED
X Boca Raton - NOT RECOGNIZED
1. Salisbury
X Hampton - NOT RECOGNIZED
2. La Costa
3. Palm Springs
X Houston WCT - NOT RECOGNIZED
4. WCT Denver
X Las Vegas - NOT RECOGNIZED
5. Nottingham
6. Wimbledon
7. Washington
8. North Conway
9. Indianapolis
10. Boston
11. US Open
12. Los Angeles
13. Cologne
14. Stockholm
15. Wembley

 :))

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2013, 06:10:58 AM »
How many points does Nastase get for the 16? It should be possible to see which two are left out from this, say if he has 635 poings from 16 tournaments then there will be 29 in the two that doesn't count. If we then have a 12 and a 17 they will be prime candidates.

It's not that simple to count them. First I must determine which tournaments DID count, because the point values will differ depending on the tournament size and prize money. I think that the tournaments that counted are the ones without a prize pool on the ATP website. Need to check more on this.