Author Topic: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)  (Read 8517 times)

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Offline Litotes

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2013, 11:23:37 AM »
I am following your progress with considerable interest - great work so far!  :applause:

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2013, 06:37:31 AM »
I must say that I did manage to confirm the following table and solve the Connors Mystery as I called it.

Code: [Select]
TYPE RND TC 5S 4S 3S 2S 1S
       R128 0 0 0 0 0 0
R64 5 0 0 0 0 0
R32 10 7 6 5 3 0
R16 20 15 12 10 7 5(0)
QF 40 30 25 20 15 10(5)
SF 80 60 50 40 30 20
F 120 90 75 60 45 30
W 160 120 100 80 60 40
                128D 5S 64/32D 16D
1-8 15 12 6 3
9-16 10 8 4 2
17-24 5 4 2 1

Connors was known as being a rogue, so I guess that his 1976 default from Boca Raton lead to a ban from the North American Circuit, making all subsequent tournaments not count on his rankings. So, he counted WCT, Palm Springs and Las Vegas only before the start of the Euopean Grand Prix circuit.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 06:47:38 AM by Slasher1985 »

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2013, 06:14:50 AM »
Gonna be doing 1975 now, cause I wanna confirm the A, B, C system too, then 1977 and 1978.

I got them from a tt-warehouse post, looking something like:

1975
1. Connors 769 points/ 18 tournaments/ Average 42.72
2. Vilas 893 points/ 21 tournaments/ Average 42.52
3. Borg 728 points/ 19 tournaments/ Average 38.32
4. Ashe 905 points/ 24 tournaments/ Average 37.71
5. Orantes 887 points/ 25 tournaments/ Average 35.48
6. Rosewall 387 points/ 13 tournaments/ Average 29.77
7. Nastase 699 points/ 24 tournaments/ Average 29.12
8. Alexander 587 points/ 24 tournaments/ Average 24.46
9. Tanner 569 points/ 24 tournaments/ Average 23.71
10. Laver 351 points/ 15 tournaments/ Average 23.40

But, General, can you get me 1981 year-end rankings somehow? That would be the crown jewel and the missing piece of the puzzle here. :cool:
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 06:15:38 AM by Slasher1985 »

Offline Litotes

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2013, 07:08:42 AM »
Gonna be doing 1975 now, cause I wanna confirm the A, B, C system too, then 1977 and 1978.

I got them from a tt-warehouse post, looking something like:

1975
1. Connors 769 points/ 18 tournaments/ Average 42.72
2. Vilas 893 points/ 21 tournaments/ Average 42.52
3. Borg 728 points/ 19 tournaments/ Average 38.32
4. Ashe 905 points/ 24 tournaments/ Average 37.71
5. Orantes 887 points/ 25 tournaments/ Average 35.48
6. Rosewall 387 points/ 13 tournaments/ Average 29.77
7. Nastase 699 points/ 24 tournaments/ Average 29.12
8. Alexander 587 points/ 24 tournaments/ Average 24.46
9. Tanner 569 points/ 24 tournaments/ Average 23.71
10. Laver 351 points/ 15 tournaments/ Average 23.40

But, General, can you get me 1981 year-end rankings somehow? That would be the crown jewel and the missing piece of the puzzle here. :cool:

I'm working on it, General. I have managed to find someone who thinks he will be able to supply me with all the early YE rankings, but as of now I haven't got confirmation from him.

Nice to see 1975, btw, that was new to me  :) Must say Vilas was closer to Ashe in points taken than I thought.

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2013, 03:33:00 AM »
Any progress here, General? I came up empty with any other YE rankings, and I'm hungry to continue this. Can you ask on tenis-warehouse for me, if you have an account? :)

Offline Litotes

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2013, 04:07:22 AM »
Sadly, I do not have an account at tennis warehouse.
 
I have not heard from the contact who might supply me with the missing rankings in a while. He is a busy man and I do not like to look impatient as he's the one doing me a favour...I'll let you know when something happens.

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2013, 04:19:37 AM »
It's quite alright. Thank you for all your effort and hard work.

I was thinking of starting this. It's a long journey anyway, spanning multiple volumes. The first two volumes refer to a pre-computer rankings era, and there is not much to confirm there. By the time I get to 1973, maybe your contact will reach back to you. I will redo calculations as I progress through. We will be seeing who was the number 1 player week by week, during the Open Era, starting with the 5 years that had only Year End Rankings.

Also, I have been thinking. Tennis warehouse claims that ATP made many mistakes during the 70s and 80s, by missing to count some tournaments, or faulty counting of others. I am going to attempt to use the correct calculations, not try to redo ATP calculations (which will be impossible). But I am also not going to count WCT tournaments starting from 1983, exactly as ATP did, and not going to count YE Masters event for the Grand Prix and WCT either.

I am going to start the setup, which itself is gonna take some time, as I prepare a new file and put it the rules that I'm going to use for 1968 (the average system with a minimum of 12, as is in 1973, but with a smaller point structure - which is going to be presented in the opening of the volume).

Offline Litotes

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2013, 04:24:22 AM »
It will be extremely interesting if we get to see the correct rankings as they should have been, especially if I manage to get the official ones as well, for comparison. Great project, General!  :))
 

Offline tennisville

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2013, 07:27:07 AM »

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2013, 07:28:53 AM »
http://www.stevegtennis.com/yearend.htm


how about this  :))


Well, it's kind of helpful, but unfortunately, I need the rankings along with the points and averages the players had at the year end rankings, not just the placement. :)

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2013, 11:28:26 AM »
Must thank Markus once again. He sent me vital year end rankings (82-83) which will indeed count a lot. Thanks Markus, I don't know how I can repay this kindness. :)

Offline Litotes

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2013, 12:02:42 PM »
Must thank Markus once again. He sent me vital year end rankings (82-83) which will indeed count a lot. Thanks Markus, I don't know how I can repay this kindness. :)

If you can get the back rankings published here, that will be more than thanks enough  :)) You have shared so much, I'm grateful I can do some small things back  :)

Offline JonG

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2013, 04:50:15 PM »
Very interested in this project.

Are you still missing any year end ATP ranking points totals from the 70s?

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2013, 01:24:40 AM »
Very interested in this project.

Are you still missing any year end ATP ranking points totals from the 70s?

Yes I am. I'm missing the first rankings (August 73), '73, '74 and '75. Markus provided me with '76-'83. And '84-'89 I have gotten the insight from tennis-warehouse.

So... first rankings-'75 is all I'm missing. If you have those with points and averages, I will be forever in your debt. :cool:

Of course, the project will continue, as soon as I finish with a lot of tasks. :)

Offline JonG

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2013, 04:29:49 PM »
Yes I am. I'm missing the first rankings (August 73), '73, '74 and '75. Markus provided me with '76-'83. And '84-'89 I have gotten the insight from tennis-warehouse.

So... first rankings-'75 is all I'm missing.

I can't help with August 73, but I've got the top 50 for 73 end and the top 100s for 74 and 75.

I'll give you the top 20 for 73 (will do 74 and 75 soon). I'll be impressed if you can crack the code and calculate the figures I have for 21-50!

(source World of Tennis '74 book)


1   Nastase   239.5   /   23   =   10.413
2   Newcombe   141.0   /   17   =   8.294
3   Connors   125.0   /   17   =   7.353
4   Okker   202.5   /   29   =   6.983
5   Smith   163.5   /   24   =   6.813
6   Rosewall   122.0   /   19   =   6.421
7   Orantes   145.5   /   24   =   6.063
8   Laver   115.0   /   20   =   5.750
9   Kodes   101.0   /   18   =   5.611
10   Ashe   148.5   /   28   =   5.304
11   Gorman   105.5   /   27   =   3.907
12   Emerson   61.5   /   17   =   3.618
13   Riesssen   85.0   /   23   =   3.696
14   Panatta   64.0   /   18   =   3.556
15   Pilic   96.5   /   28   =   3.446
16   Taylor   69.5   /   21   =   3.310
17   Fillol   88.0   /   28   =   3.143
18   Borg   68.0   /   22   =   3.091
19   Richey   76.5   /   25   =   3.060
20   Bertolucci   48.3   /   17   =   2.841





Offline JonG

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2013, 04:37:00 PM »
1974: from WOT

1   Connors   768   13   59.08   
2   Newcombe   753   20   37.65   
3   Borg   813   23   35.35   
4   Laver   447   13   34.38   
5   Vilas   786   27   29.11   
6   Okker   595   21   28.33   
7   Ashe   778   28   27.79   
8   Rosewall   324   7   27.00   (div by 12)
9   Smith   593   23   25.78   
10   Nastase   615   24   25.63   
11   Orantes   560   27   20.74   
12   Riessen   452   25   18.08   
13   Metreveli   281   16   17.56   
14   Tanner   513   31   16.55   
15   Solomon   521   34   15.32   
16   Stockton   322   22   14.64   
17   Kodes   305   21   14.52   
18   Ramirez   498   35   14.23   
19   Drysdale   196   14   14.00   
20   Dibbs   389   29   13.41   

Offline JonG

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2013, 04:48:20 PM »
1975:

1   Connors   769   18   42.72   
2   Vilas   893   21   42.52   
3   Borg   728   19   38.32   
4   Ashe   905   24   37.71   
5   Orantes   887   25   35.48   
6   Rosewall   387   13   29.77   
7   Nastase   699   24   29.13   
8   Alexander   587   24   24.46   
9   Tanner   569   24   23.71   
10   Laver   351   15   23.40   
11   Okker   326   14   23.29   
12   Roche   279   11   23.25   (div by 12)
13   Ramirez   620   28   22.14   
14   Panatta   485   24   20.21   
15   Gerulaitis   286   15   19.07   
16   Fillol   469   26   18.04   
17   Solomon   582   33   17.64   
18   Dibbs   450   26   17.31   
19   Kodes   342   21   16.29   
20   Newcombe   187   9   15.58   (div by 12)
               

Offline JonG

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2013, 05:15:02 PM »
Have you seen this? Is Guillermo Vilas demanding a recount?

Sorry can't post link to Argentine tennis history facebook page.

Offline puppotennis

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2013, 07:07:22 PM »
I'm Eduardo Puppo, Argentine tennis journalist, Director of Communications for the ATP Buenos Aires (Copa Claro), CNN en espanol tennis analyst, and author of the tetralogy of Argentina tennis history books.
 
I need a big help (maybe you have in your files).
 
We need to file those years (1973, 74 and 75) ATP rankings points each tournament. By Category and round.

Alert: only ATP ranking points, NO Grand Prix points.

I'm working with Guillermo Vilas. It is an investigation into the 1973 to 1977 rankings. It is very important for Vilas and his story.
 
You can search their files? Or contact another person who has that info?

ATP Greg Sharko confirm that ATP does not have that information.
 
Thank you very much for the effort and sorry for my english!
 
Eduardo.

Offline Slasher1985

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Re: Full Open Era Rankings (RESEARCH PHASE)
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2013, 07:28:32 AM »
First of all, thanks for the help, JonG. I think I'll have enough to reconstitute some of the conditions ATP used in 1973-75.

Dear Mr. Puppo. I will try the best that I can to calculate the ATP Rankings starting with 1973 year end, but I must say that 1975 really looks close in my perspective. One sole tournament out of place there and it's a wrap. I must ask if you happen to have information on how many bonus points were awarded when beating a top player (if any)? All I have is something like 6p (1-8), 4p (9-16), 2p (17-24). Does Guillermo remember more on this and can confirm?