Author Topic: Just a hunch: ATP might speed up surfaces by 2015, back to the old times  (Read 1783 times)

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Offline Swish

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uncle toni's influence in ATP decisions is way overrated, mc.......it is ATP themselves for their own purpose of increasing their overall wealth, slowed down the surfaces to make sure that the big 4 cannot be confronted from anywhere but the back of the court.......


now that time seems to be passing........people are getting bored of big 4 winning everything.......you saw the crowd reaction in madrid last night when some unknown single hander took it to novak and won.......
Madrid crowd was primitive btw. They will probably NOT see Nole there next year.


Djokovic said some bad things to the crowd too, I don't want to repeat it here.
 
I think the Spaniards were still feeling the sting from their boy losing MC.

djokovic thinks he needs to be loved more than any player as he's the no.1 in the world currently and i think that is nonsense........also mimicry and shirt ripping don't take you too far........

spanish behaved like butthurts that day but we shouldn't forget what novak did in the streets of madrid in 2011 after beating nadal........he is still a good guy but sometimes he tries too hard to draw extra attention........

The spanish were probably mad about their boy losing MC. It was still fresh in their memory.
 
The surfaces may not be needed to be sped up with some young guns blasting the ball.
I love ball bashing headcases.  :rofl_2:

Offline Clay Death

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welcome back general shanks.
 
 
 :)) :))

Offline pawan89

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When I have time I want to look up how old Dolgopolov and Anderson are, and more importantly I want to see in whose books they are considered "rising players".

But the theory makes sense. Although, couldn't slow surfaces just mean a different group of youngsters will dominate? What difference does it make? There are young guys from all over the place. Maybe some of those young spaniards that aren't as hot on the radar now because they haven't had the most amazing junior careers will start winning slams and breakthrough once their training pays off? And the people we talk about now (Dimitrov, Raonic etc) will end up being the next Roddicks and Gasquets because they are good players but the surfaces just aren't suited to them. There'll be stars and grand slam winners regardless, just because the current crop of hopefuls seem to be tailor made for faster courts doesn't mean the ATP would cater to them, if that were the case they would never have made the courts slower from the late 2000s - why would a tournament like Indian Wells or Miami ever want to slow their courts down when you had players like Roddick, Fish, Blake as the next big things in America.

about 10-12 years ago, the average fan was bored of serve fests and 1-2 finishes.......at the same time ATP saw immense potential in your fav and a young dirtballer from spain who both grew up on clay and the spaniard was already taking down RG champs like moya, costa when he was barely even 16.......they both had amazing consistency from the back but the results were on and off.......

that is when ATP slowed down the surfaces, brought the court speeds closer in pursuit of eliminating early knock outs for the rising stars from the big servers and hitters.......they could outlast most players from the back.......

indian wells and miami were never as fast as cinci or us open........and anyway roddick, blake never captured the imagination of fans as much as these two did.......mcenroe, spanish commentators started talking about nadal quite regularly as early as in 2003 and federer was talked around by most commentators ever since his win over sampras........

This makes sense :) I still think the key here you touched upon is that the ATP did what the FANS wanted. And they'll continue to do so, not cater to specific players who draw fans interests. Federer and Nadal might have been talked about but I disagree with you that courts were slowed for them. If courts had been sped up for people like Roddick, Hewitt, Safin, Philipousis we'd still have them as champs and tennis would have its fair share of rivalries and fans and drama and excitement from various markets. The american Australian dominance might have continued and Russia might have been the new dynasty instead of Spain but that's not the case. Spain and base liners like Novak Federer Nadal dominate because of slowed surfaces, because fans wanted slower surface, not the other way - fans didn't want/care for Nadal or Federer or Novak specifically so ATP never catered to them specifically. In fact surface homogenization started well before majority of tennis world heard of the current crop of top players and the players to benefit from any court changes now, the next legends might be early teens right now and the current prospects might end up being the filler between eras. So I don't think ATP will change surfaces for players. They'll change for fans.


Offline Swish

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Variation of surfaces would be nice, it highlights the different strengths of players, not just the baseliners all the time.
 
 

Offline Clay Death

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what the hell do you call clay, grass, indoor hard courts, outdoor hard courts?
 
seems to me that they are all significantly different surfaces. there is plenty of variation there.
 
and who the hell is forcing the players to stay back. they can all serve around 130-140 MPH so they can go forward if they want to.
 
 
 
the fact of the matter is that they cant pay their damn mortgage serving and volleying in the modern game.
 
 
if you want to speed up the sport then take the first serve away.
 
 
 
otherwise the game is already too fast and getting faster with each passing day. anybody who thinks that they are going to speed up the courts simply don't know what the hell they are talking about.
 
 
this is why the castle is required reading.

Offline Swish

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what the hell do you call clay, grass, indoor hard courts, outdoor hard courts?
 
seems to me that they are all significantly different surfaces. there is plenty of variation there.
 
and who the hell is forcing the players to stay back. they can all serve around 130-140 MPH so they can go forward if they want to.
 
 
 
the fact of the matter is that they cant pay their damn mortgage serving and volleying in the modern game.
 
 
if you want to speed up the sport then take the first serve away.
 
 
 
otherwise the game is already too fast and getting faster with each passing day. anybody who thinks that they are going to speed up the courts simply don't know what the hell they are talking about.
 
 
this is why the castle is required reading.

When DelPo hits a good forehand Djokovic should not touch it.
 
The courts have been slowed to where the power hitters did not get any reward for it.
 
But the level of bashers is increasing so maybe it'll be alright.
 
The castle won't help, there's nothing there I don't know already.
 
 

Offline Clay Death

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what the hell do you call clay, grass, indoor hard courts, outdoor hard courts?
 
seems to me that they are all significantly different surfaces. there is plenty of variation there.
 
and who the hell is forcing the players to stay back. they can all serve around 130-140 MPH so they can go forward if they want to.
 
 
 
the fact of the matter is that they cant pay their damn mortgage serving and volleying in the modern game.
 
 
if you want to speed up the sport then take the first serve away.
 
 
 
otherwise the game is already too fast and getting faster with each passing day. anybody who thinks that they are going to speed up the courts simply don't know what the hell they are talking about.
 
 
this is why the castle is required reading.

When DelPo hits a good forehand Djokovic should not touch it.
 
The courts have been slowed to where the power hitters did not get any reward for it.
 
But the level of bashers is increasing so maybe it'll be alright.
 
The castle won't help, there's nothing there I don't know already.



look we all love del potro but he is not anywhere near the abilities of nole.

nole is the greatest mover the world has ever known. that was the opinion of pete Sampras who saw him up close a few times.

also nole is one of the best of all times on hard courts.

nole too can hit 100 MPH forehands. and he can hit backhands even harder.

and if my memory serves me right, del potro actually managed to beat nole in indian wells.

anyway don't comprare del potro to nole.
nole is in another league mate.


you clearly need help. how about bass fishing tournaments. they are much easier to follow:

1. bubba catches fish
2. bif catches fish
3. the fish is then weighed.


well you get the idea. so much simpler.

or go read the castle so you too can be an informed tennis man one day.




 :)) :)) :)) :)) :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

Offline Swish

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what the hell do you call clay, grass, indoor hard courts, outdoor hard courts?
 
seems to me that they are all significantly different surfaces. there is plenty of variation there.
 
and who the hell is forcing the players to stay back. they can all serve around 130-140 MPH so they can go forward if they want to.
 
 
 
the fact of the matter is that they cant pay their damn mortgage serving and volleying in the modern game.
 
 
if you want to speed up the sport then take the first serve away.
 
 
 
otherwise the game is already too fast and getting faster with each passing day. anybody who thinks that they are going to speed up the courts simply don't know what the hell they are talking about.
 
 
this is why the castle is required reading.

When DelPo hits a good forehand Djokovic should not touch it.
 
The courts have been slowed to where the power hitters did not get any reward for it.
 
But the level of bashers is increasing so maybe it'll be alright.
 
The castle won't help, there's nothing there I don't know already.



look we all love del potro but he is not anywhere near the abilities of nole.

nole is the greatest mover the world has ever known. that was the opinion of pete Sampras who saw him up close a few times.

also nole is one of the best of all times on hard courts.

nole too can hit 100 MPH forehands. and he can hit backhands even harder.

and if my memory serves me right, del potro actually managed to beat nole in indian wells.

anyway don't comprare del potro to nole.
nole is in another league mate.


you clearly need help. how about bass fishing tournaments. they are much easier to follow:

1. bubba catches fish
2. bif catches fish
3. the fish is then weighed.


well you get the idea. so much simpler.

or go read the castle so you too can be an informed tennis man one day.




 :)) :)) :)) :)) :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

Nothing at the castle I don't know already.
 
No one is comparing Nole to DelPo, It was a point that I was making.
 
However if you don't mention Nadal's knees I won't bring it up again.  :king:
 
 
 

Offline Clay Death

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what is wrong with nadal`s knees?
 
is he having problems again?
 
 
 
 :)) :))

Offline Clay Death

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 :)) :)) :rofl_2: :rofl_2:

Offline Swish

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what is wrong with nadal`s knees?
 
is he having problems again?
 
 
 
 :)) :))

He always has problems with them.
 
 
I saw Django Unchained tonight, a long movie but it was good.

Offline Clay Death

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I heard it was good.
 
 
right now I am more interested in the "great gatsby". I will try to catch that first.
 
 
why don't you read a good book on tennis and forget about these movies for a couple of months.
 
we need your knowledge at the castle. 2 very important slams are coming right up.
 
 
 
 :)) :)) :)) :rofl_2: :rofl_2:
 
 

Offline Swish

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I heard it was good.
 
 
right now I am more interested in the "great gatsby". I will try to catch that first.
 
 
why don't you read a good book on tennis and forget about these movies for a couple of months.
 
we need your knowledge at the castle. 2 very important slams are coming right up.
 
 
 
 :)) :)) :)) :rofl_2: :rofl_2:
 
 

I try to tell you in 2008 that Fed wasn't finished, you said he was old and didn't have much left.
 
Now look what happened since.  :rofl_2:
 
CD, I remember. Check the posts.  :))

Offline Clay Death

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 :)) :)) :))

Offline Clay Death

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roger may have one more slam left in him general swish.
 
with murray having back issues and nole not quite in the best of forms, the dynamics suddenly got quite interesting.
 
 
 :)) :))

Offline monstertruck

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When I have time I want to look up how old Dolgopolov and Anderson are, and more importantly I want to see in whose books they are considered "rising players".

But the theory makes sense. Although, couldn't slow surfaces just mean a different group of youngsters will dominate? What difference does it make? There are young guys from all over the place. Maybe some of those young spaniards that aren't as hot on the radar now because they haven't had the most amazing junior careers will start winning slams and breakthrough once their training pays off? And the people we talk about now (Dimitrov, Raonic etc) will end up being the next Roddicks and Gasquets because they are good players but the surfaces just aren't suited to them. There'll be stars and grand slam winners regardless, just because the current crop of hopefuls seem to be tailor made for faster courts doesn't mean the ATP would cater to them, if that were the case they would never have made the courts slower from the late 2000s - why would a tournament like Indian Wells or Miami ever want to slow their courts down when you had players like Roddick, Fish, Blake as the next big things in America.

about 10-12 years ago, the average fan was bored of serve fests and 1-2 finishes.......at the same time ATP saw immense potential in your fav and a young dirtballer from spain who both grew up on clay and the spaniard was already taking down RG champs like moya, costa when he was barely even 16.......they both had amazing consistency from the back but the results were on and off.......

that is when ATP slowed down the surfaces, brought the court speeds closer in pursuit of eliminating early knock outs for the rising stars from the big servers and hitters.......they could outlast most players from the back.......

indian wells and miami were never as fast as cinci or us open........and anyway roddick, blake never captured the imagination of fans as much as these two did.......mcenroe, spanish commentators started talking about nadal quite regularly as early as in 2003 and federer was talked around by most commentators ever since his win over sampras........

This makes sense :) I still think the key here you touched upon is that the ATP did what the FANS wanted. And they'll continue to do so, not cater to specific players who draw fans interests. Federer and Nadal might have been talked about but I disagree with you that courts were slowed for them. If courts had been sped up for people like Roddick, Hewitt, Safin, Philipousis we'd still have them as champs and tennis would have its fair share of rivalries and fans and drama and excitement from various markets. The american Australian dominance might have continued and Russia might have been the new dynasty instead of Spain but that's not the case. Spain and base liners like Novak Federer Nadal dominate because of slowed surfaces, because fans wanted slower surface, not the other way - fans didn't want/care for Nadal or Federer or Novak specifically so ATP never catered to them specifically. In fact surface homogenization started well before majority of tennis world heard of the current crop of top players and the players to benefit from any court changes now, the next legends might be early teens right now and the current prospects might end up being the filler between eras. So I don't think ATP will change surfaces for players. They'll change for fans.
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Offline Start da Game

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what the hell do you call clay, grass, indoor hard courts, outdoor hard courts?
 
seems to me that they are all significantly different surfaces. there is plenty of variation there.
 
and who the hell is forcing the players to stay back. they can all serve around 130-140 MPH so they can go forward if they want to.
 
 
 
the fact of the matter is that they cant pay their damn mortgage serving and volleying in the modern game.
 
 
if you want to speed up the sport then take the first serve away.
 
 
 
otherwise the game is already too fast and getting faster with each passing day. anybody who thinks that they are going to speed up the courts simply don't know what the hell they are talking about.
 
 
this is why the castle is required reading.

none of the players i mentioned above is a serve and volleyer........s & v is dead and buried.......so that was not the point........

i don't see how the game is faster today........yes sure the ball off the racket is faster today but not the ball rebounding off the surface........that is making a big difference when you take into account how fit and strong tennis players are these days and how well they retrieve.........the game has slowed down in general........some shots which should never be retrieved are being retrieved with comfort........indoor hardcourts are the slowest s**t on earth these days........they removed carpets as if there is dearth of slowness on tour........

the problem which ATP has now is that they should have their superstars ready in 3 years time........nadal, federer, djokovic and murray have 3 more years at best in the top 5........they will get old in 2 years time........

now if the ATP believe that the up and coming players would excel on these same surfaces, they will end up driving away a lot of tennis fans to some other sport........ATP have been masters at forecasting what sells in the future and acting accordingly.........

« Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 12:17:40 PM by Start da Game »
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline Lugburz

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General Hercs.. I kinda disagree with you on this one.

We are to believe there is plenty of variety on surfaces today, however that's misguiding.
It's very evident and obvious how many fast courts have been slowed down to a embarrassing and laughable level.

First come to mind IW, Miami... From slams USO ever since 2011 even more slowed down, not to mention Wimbledon!

Quote
what the hell do you call clay, grass, indoor hard courts, outdoor hard courts?
That's the problem, the margins and play style should be much more different.
You could even argue some clay courts are faster than IW or Miami, same as Wimbly slower than Cincy or Montreal. Thats simply unacceptable if you want variety of surfaces.

Not to mention indoor tennis courts are almost extinct. There are many indoor court events top players are avoiding.
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Offline Start da Game

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When I have time I want to look up how old Dolgopolov and Anderson are, and more importantly I want to see in whose books they are considered "rising players".

But the theory makes sense. Although, couldn't slow surfaces just mean a different group of youngsters will dominate? What difference does it make? There are young guys from all over the place. Maybe some of those young spaniards that aren't as hot on the radar now because they haven't had the most amazing junior careers will start winning slams and breakthrough once their training pays off? And the people we talk about now (Dimitrov, Raonic etc) will end up being the next Roddicks and Gasquets because they are good players but the surfaces just aren't suited to them. There'll be stars and grand slam winners regardless, just because the current crop of hopefuls seem to be tailor made for faster courts doesn't mean the ATP would cater to them, if that were the case they would never have made the courts slower from the late 2000s - why would a tournament like Indian Wells or Miami ever want to slow their courts down when you had players like Roddick, Fish, Blake as the next big things in America.

about 10-12 years ago, the average fan was bored of serve fests and 1-2 finishes.......at the same time ATP saw immense potential in your fav and a young dirtballer from spain who both grew up on clay and the spaniard was already taking down RG champs like moya, costa when he was barely even 16.......they both had amazing consistency from the back but the results were on and off.......

that is when ATP slowed down the surfaces, brought the court speeds closer in pursuit of eliminating early knock outs for the rising stars from the big servers and hitters.......they could outlast most players from the back.......

indian wells and miami were never as fast as cinci or us open........and anyway roddick, blake never captured the imagination of fans as much as these two did.......mcenroe, spanish commentators started talking about nadal quite regularly as early as in 2003 and federer was talked around by most commentators ever since his win over sampras........

This makes sense :) I still think the key here you touched upon is that the ATP did what the FANS wanted. And they'll continue to do so, not cater to specific players who draw fans interests. Federer and Nadal might have been talked about but I disagree with you that courts were slowed for them. If courts had been sped up for people like Roddick, Hewitt, Safin, Philipousis we'd still have them as champs and tennis would have its fair share of rivalries and fans and drama and excitement from various markets. The american Australian dominance might have continued and Russia might have been the new dynasty instead of Spain but that's not the case. Spain and base liners like Novak Federer Nadal dominate because of slowed surfaces, because fans wanted slower surface, not the other way - fans didn't want/care for Nadal or Federer or Novak specifically so ATP never catered to them specifically. In fact surface homogenization started well before majority of tennis world heard of the current crop of top players and the players to benefit from any court changes now, the next legends might be early teens right now and the current prospects might end up being the filler between eras. So I don't think ATP will change surfaces for players. They'll change for fans.

they do have a few in mind(who they see as the future) when they make some decisions pertaining to the tour in general........see for example they removed carpets as early as in late 2006 simply because rafa and fed disliked it and were being ousted before the finals........ATP din't even care about one of the best indoor carpet players nalbandian........fans want to see stars, TV wants stars as well, everyone wants to see the big guns........if ATP doesn't provide that, it is only their loss........

hewitt, safin and philippoussis did have more than considerable time on faster surfaces in the late 90s and early 2000s for about 5 years(philippoussis even more), none of them showed top flight ability and consistency like sampras........yeah roddick, blake and co. did arrive later but they carried a game which was not fan-friendly at those times........roddick a serve bot, blake a hit or miss type of player.........fans were eager to see consistent baseline tennis and extended rallies........

so i do think they have certain players in mind and act along the lines of their comfort for the benefit of their business........
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS

Offline Start da Game

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General Hercs.. I kinda disagree with you on this one.

We are to believe there is plenty of variety on surfaces today, however that's misguiding.
It's very evident and obvious how many fast courts have been slowed down to a embarrassing and laughable level.

First come to mind IW, Miami... From slams USO ever since 2011 even more slowed down, not to mention Wimbledon!

Quote
what the hell do you call clay, grass, indoor hard courts, outdoor hard courts?
That's the problem, the margins and play style should be much more different.
You could even argue some clay courts are faster than IW or Miami, same as Wimbly slower than Cincy or Montreal. Thats simply unacceptable if you want variety of surfaces.

Not to mention indoor tennis courts are almost extinct. There are many indoor court events top players are avoiding.

dolgopolov would be a genius on fast hardcourts and lighter balls........he is the new rios who's clearly robbed by the slowness on the tour........

anderson would love fast courts as well........dimitrov would be good on fast courts as well if he stops copying fed further and focuses on developing his own game a little more........

in my opinion wimbledon and roland garros should remain same.......us open and AO need to be sped up back what it was before 2011........all indoor tournaments should be sped up as well........bring back carpets if required.........to be fair indian wells was never a fast court, sampras used to rally from the back at IW........but yeah miami has been slowed down.......

 
Marian Vajda to Novak Djokovic, "I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man KEPT COMING AFTER YOU! Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

i demand french open to be renamed RAFAEL GARROS