Poll

Who will win Mens French Open?

Nadal
8 (38.1%)
Djokovic
5 (23.8%)
Federer
4 (19%)
Berlocq
2 (9.5%)
Other
2 (9.5%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: June 09, 2013, 01:59:44 PM

Author Topic: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2  (Read 23570 times)

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Offline August

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #220 on: May 29, 2013, 08:33:00 AM »
Monfils vs Gulbis should be good. GO MONFILS! I can see Mahut giving Tipsy trouble, but I don't think he'll win.

Kirilenko on Court 17?! That's awfully harsh. You'd think a 12 seed would be given higher priority over a bunch of random unseeded doubles teams.


That's obviously because court 17 has some grandstands.

http://www.rolandgarros.com/pdf/RGStadiumMap_EN.pdf

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Offline Swish

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #221 on: May 29, 2013, 09:09:59 AM »
Gulbis takes the first set 7-6.

Offline williamchung7

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #222 on: May 29, 2013, 09:37:58 AM »
Jerzy also play double at Roland Garros. :zipped:

Didn't notice he played doubles.

He and his partner has through to 2nd round. :innocent:

Offline Rafa816

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #223 on: May 29, 2013, 09:47:15 AM »
Monfils takes the second 6-4 to even it at a set each!

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Offline Swish

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #224 on: May 29, 2013, 09:49:27 AM »
Monfils takes the second 6-4 to even it at a set each!

A few bad games by Gulbis.
 
Lets see how Monfils handles the long match after a five setter with Berdych.
 
 

Offline pawan89

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #225 on: May 29, 2013, 10:17:21 AM »
What's going on? First I saw Gulbis was up a break on Monfils in the third set 2-0 and now he's serving to stay in the set 2-5?


Offline Emma

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #226 on: May 29, 2013, 10:17:51 AM »
Gulbis was up a break in the 3rd and now he's down 2-5. Monfils is definitely milking the home soil and taking full advantage.
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Offline Emma

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #227 on: May 29, 2013, 10:20:41 AM »
Simon, Raonic, Seppi have all won their matches today. Robredo is about to close his as well. Tipsy, Ferrer, Tsonga, Paire all have won as well. Your typcial tennis day.

And surprise, surpise - Cilic won too.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 10:22:20 AM by Emma »
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Offline Rafa816

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #228 on: May 29, 2013, 10:50:54 AM »
Monfils/Gulbis has been such a good match so far! So many ups and downs. Right now Monfils has a mini break lead in the third set tie break. Hopefully he can keep that advantage.

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Offline Lugburz

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #229 on: May 29, 2013, 10:59:53 AM »
yeah its good match. Hopefully Gulbis will turn it around.
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Offline Emma

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #230 on: May 29, 2013, 11:04:33 AM »

1. Relative to his own overall record on the various surfaces, his clay tournament finals result record is by far the poorest. 
I won't go into every detail, but hopefully this should be sufficient to demonstrate his proficiency or lack thereof relative to the other surfaces:

Code: [Select]
            W      F     
 hard:     22     13
grass:      3      1
 clay:      0      0

He also won 1 tourney on the now defunct carpet.
He has 4 semifinal and 6 QF results on clay out of 28 major (1 SF, 2 QF) and masters 1000 (3 SF, 4 QF) tournaments played,
which is approximately equal to his early round exits on clay (9 in the 1st or 2nd round).

2. Relative to his competition on various surfaces, both historically and currently, his overall record on clay is relatively poor.
Using the ATP career reliability index (based on match win pct),  he is historically ranked 8th on grass (.813), 10th on hard (.783), and 99th on clay (.602). 
There are 16 active players ranked ahead of him on clay.

3. Relative to his competition, he doesn't move as well on clay vs. the other surfaces. In my judgement, his movement and footwork is best on hard, then grass, then clay. 

4. Mental - relative lack of clay aura. Other players see him as more beatable on clay, and he probably sees himself as more beatable.  Confidence is a big factor at this level.

Of course, these factors are interrelated. Relative lack of good movement/footwork on clay affects results, which affect a player's mentality and aura.

There has been some improvement on clay since he began playing, some crediting various coaches helping him, but it is not consistent.  He appears to improve, then he backslides. 

I think his better results on clay have come from his basic improvement in all areas of his game over time.  In my judgement, I think it will be difficult for him to improve his movement/footwork/sliding on clay at this point in his career, which will always handicap his results versus his current competition.  He might get better results if his competition falls off the radar scope.  I wish all the best for him; he seems like a good hard working guy.

This is how I see it, relatively speaking... ;)


I am actually not sure what are you trying to prove here. I think it’s a known fact that Andy’s results on clay are pretty poor compared to his other success on other surfaces namely hard and grass. In fact, you will not find any player in history that was equally great on all surfaces. Nadal, for instance, is great on clay and grass but he’s not quite there on hard. On top of that, 70% of his total success is on clay. His only title on hard court, 2010 USO, which came almost 10 years after his time on tour, can be seen as a fluke. The kind of draw he had, give similar draw to Murray on clay, where he’d hardly have to face any true clay-courter, and he gets the title too. And let’s not forget, Murray has almost never played any 250 or 500 clay tournament in his life. So we need to look into those details as well. 

And Federer’s success on clay is not as clear cut either. Even in his prime, he wasn’t able to beat a much younger Nadal on clay. And please don’t throw ‘Nadal is the greatest clay player of all time so that makes sense as to why Federer couldn’t get a major win’ etc. stuff. That’s just too convenient – but not only that, until you put Nadal against all the past clay champions, your statement will stay just as ‘relative’. Once Nole gets a win over Nadal at RG, he will surpass Federer’s success on clay by a good margin. It’s only a matter of time now.

And even though Nole has won Wimbledon, he will find a hard time to win another one. In fact, that’s his only title on grass, so it’s not like he’s really a miracle worker on grass. As I see it, he has at least 5 people in front of him who can take him out.

Also, Murray’s priority has never been clay. If he had been really keen, he could have won a few small clay tournaments by now to build his case, but his case was never so easy or simple. His priority had always been to win a Slam first and it made sense that USO, AO and Wimbledon had always been his main target. RG had to take a backseat in all this and clay season in general. So you need to take all this into account before you show any kind of table, because these are the biggest factors and reason for him as to why he had such a small success on clay.

Most importantly, Murray doesn’t even need to do too well on clay. Sampras was pretty mediocre on clay and yet he won 14 Slams and was at No. 1 for six straight years – something Federer could never achieve even when he had the easiest time around in his era. So Murray can definitely bank his career on hard and grass, which account the same percentage of tournaments as the 90s and achieve many great things. But I am sure given that he has still a few good years left in him and the fact that, his game suits clay much better than Sampras and once his all other priorities are also completed, he’ll focus on clay. Let the battle remain between Nole and Nadal for now. But once all is said and down, who knows where he would stand in terms of his success on clay.   

I agree however that his serves are somewhat compromised on clay which is a big deal and that he’s a bit afraid of moving/sliding as freely on clay - another big deal for him no doubt. He cares about Wimbledon a great deal and RG being just prior, I can see why he’d want to be so careful. In fact, the whole season right after RG is pretty big for him so rather stay healthy for the next six months than to jeopardize his health for the sake of improving on a surface, that doesn’t come naturally to him. That would be a fool’s decision at its best if he were to do so.
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Offline Emma

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #231 on: May 29, 2013, 11:05:55 AM »
Looks like Gulbis got immediately broken in the 4th set. Tough 3rd set loss for him so it's understood.
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Offline Rafa816

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #232 on: May 29, 2013, 11:22:20 AM »
Monfils running away with it now :D

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Offline Swish

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #233 on: May 29, 2013, 11:28:46 AM »
Gulbis has some more work to do. The forehand was just too inconsistent.
He showed some good fight though.
 
 
He'll go home and chew on that for awhile.
 
 

Offline Rafa816

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #234 on: May 29, 2013, 11:39:22 AM »

1. Relative to his own overall record on the various surfaces, his clay tournament finals result record is by far the poorest. 
I won't go into every detail, but hopefully this should be sufficient to demonstrate his proficiency or lack thereof relative to the other surfaces:

Code: [Select]
            W      F     
 hard:     22     13
grass:      3      1
 clay:      0      0

He also won 1 tourney on the now defunct carpet.
He has 4 semifinal and 6 QF results on clay out of 28 major (1 SF, 2 QF) and masters 1000 (3 SF, 4 QF) tournaments played,
which is approximately equal to his early round exits on clay (9 in the 1st or 2nd round).

2. Relative to his competition on various surfaces, both historically and currently, his overall record on clay is relatively poor.
Using the ATP career reliability index (based on match win pct),  he is historically ranked 8th on grass (.813), 10th on hard (.783), and 99th on clay (.602). 
There are 16 active players ranked ahead of him on clay.

3. Relative to his competition, he doesn't move as well on clay vs. the other surfaces. In my judgement, his movement and footwork is best on hard, then grass, then clay. 

4. Mental - relative lack of clay aura. Other players see him as more beatable on clay, and he probably sees himself as more beatable.  Confidence is a big factor at this level.

Of course, these factors are interrelated. Relative lack of good movement/footwork on clay affects results, which affect a player's mentality and aura.

There has been some improvement on clay since he began playing, some crediting various coaches helping him, but it is not consistent.  He appears to improve, then he backslides. 

I think his better results on clay have come from his basic improvement in all areas of his game over time.  In my judgement, I think it will be difficult for him to improve his movement/footwork/sliding on clay at this point in his career, which will always handicap his results versus his current competition.  He might get better results if his competition falls off the radar scope.  I wish all the best for him; he seems like a good hard working guy.

This is how I see it, relatively speaking... ;)


I am actually not sure what are you trying to prove here. I think it’s a known fact that Andy’s results on clay are pretty poor compared to his other success on other surfaces namely hard and grass. In fact, you will not find any player in history that was equally great on all surfaces. Nadal, for instance, is great on clay and grass but he’s not quite there on hard. On top of that, 70% of his total success is on clay. His only title on hard court, 2010 USO, which came almost 10 years after his time on tour, can be seen as a fluke. The kind of draw he had, give similar draw to Murray on clay, where he’d hardly have to face any true clay-courter, and he gets the title too. And let’s not forget, Murray has almost never played any 250 or 500 clay tournament in his life. So we need to look into those details as well. 

And Federer’s success on clay is not as clear cut either. Even in his prime, he wasn’t able to beat a much younger Nadal on clay. And please don’t throw ‘Nadal is the greatest clay player of all time so that makes sense as to why Federer couldn’t get a major win’ etc. stuff. That’s just too convenient – but not only that, until you put Nadal against all the past clay champions, your statement will stay just as ‘relative’. Once Nole gets a win over Nadal at RG, he will surpass Federer’s success on clay by a good margin. It’s only a matter of time now.

And even though Nole has won Wimbledon, he will find a hard time to win another one. In fact, that’s his only title on grass, so it’s not like he’s really a miracle worker on grass. As I see it, he has at least 5 people in front of him who can take him out.

Also, Murray’s priority has never been clay. If he had been really keen, he could have won a few small clay tournaments by now to build his case, but his case was never so easy or simple. His priority had always been to win a Slam first and it made sense that USO, AO and Wimbledon had always been his main target. RG had to take a backseat in all this and clay season in general. So you need to take all this into account before you show any kind of table, because these are the biggest factors and reason for him as to why he had such a small success on clay.

Most importantly, Murray doesn’t even need to do too well on clay. Sampras was pretty mediocre on clay and yet he won 14 Slams and was at No. 1 for six straight years – something Federer could never achieve even when he had the easiest time around in his era. So Murray can definitely bank his career on hard and grass, which account the same percentage of tournaments as the 90s and achieve many great things. But I am sure given that he has still a few good years left in him and the fact that, his game suits clay much better than Sampras and once his all other priorities are also completed, he’ll focus on clay. Let the battle remain between Nole and Nadal for now. But once all is said and down, who knows where he would stand in terms of his success on clay.   

I agree however that his serves are somewhat compromised on clay which is a big deal and that he’s a bit afraid of moving/sliding as freely on clay - another big deal for him no doubt. He cares about Wimbledon a great deal and RG being just prior, I can see why he’d want to be so careful. In fact, the whole season right after RG is pretty big for him so rather stay healthy for the next six months than to jeopardize his health for the sake of improving on a surface, that doesn’t come naturally to him. That would be a fool’s decision at its best if he were to do so.

Firstly, Nadal also has the '09 AO, and he definitely didn't have an easy draw there. He had to defeat a 3-time semifinalist in the 3rd round, a finalist in the 4th round, and, ultimately, a 3-time champion in the finals just two days after he had an epic 5-setter that lasted over 5 hours. And also, if you look at Nadal's matches in the 2010 USO, you'll know it was no fluke. It was the best he'd ever played in his life. And his finals opponent (Djokovic) is definitely a hard courter.

And Federer's success on clay IS clear cut. You can say that the Nadal excuse is 'too convenient' all you want, but it's still a fact. Nadal is the clear cut GOAT on clay. If you take him away and look at what Federer's done on clay, it's ridiculous to suggest he isn't good on the surface. He won RG in 2009 and is a 2-time winner at Madrid (while it was clay). He is also a 3-time finalist at RG, a 3-time finalist at Monte Carlo, and a 3-time finalist at Rome, all but one of those losses coming to the greatest clay courter of all time. Again, you can say it's 'too convenient' all you want, but it doesn't change it from being true.


YAY! Gulbis lost!  :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) I think I like Monfils a lot now. Taking down two of my least favorite players on tour in a row. Gotta thank him for that!

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline Emma

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #235 on: May 29, 2013, 11:47:04 AM »
Federer's success on clay is never clear cut and Nadal is never the clay GOAT. These terms are completely subjective as you can never compare these results across the eras. Whoever claims such a thing is intellectually dense.
Federer had only Nadal to deal with on clay and he was handed a loss each time.

These are all typical Fedaltards claims as I see it.
 
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Offline pawan89

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #236 on: May 29, 2013, 11:48:40 AM »
Without taking anything away from Monfils, Gulbis is an idiot. Well that's the first thought that comes to me. I guess in reality it just shows he has a lot more work to do and build up his consistency and mental fortitude. I'm sorry but if you want to be top 10 at this point, you cannot lose to Monfils who's been out with injuries and has very little match play at the highest level for a while now. And the fact that it's the French Open and Monfils is the underdog and has the crowd support means very little. Shame on Gulbis and Berdych. But great victories for Monfils. It's like he's putting together a dream run, a win over Berdych is legit.


Offline pawan89

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #237 on: May 29, 2013, 11:51:21 AM »
In other news, Federer is clearly struggling on clay. He's already dropped three games to Somdev and already played for 70 mins and he's only up 6-2 6-1 3-0.


Offline Emma

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #238 on: May 29, 2013, 11:53:42 AM »
Nadal’s 2009 AO line up - Rochus, Karanušić (who’s he?) Haas, Gonzalez, Simon, Verdasco, and Federer. Except for Federer, none of them has the right kind of credential on hard to take out a top player. And Federer has match-up issues against Nadal we all know it. He wins against Federer regardless surface.
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Offline Emma

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Re: 2013 ATP/WTA Grand Slam Roland Garros (May 21-June 9) Draw in post #2
« Reply #239 on: May 29, 2013, 11:55:43 AM »
In other news, Federer is clearly struggling on clay. He's already dropped three games to Somdev and already played for 70 mins and he's only up 6-2 6-1 3-0.

Do you see any top player struggling against Somdev on clay? No.

Federer's opening up to the highest level with Benneteau winning his match in a 5 set thriller.
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