Author Topic: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis  (Read 5117 times)

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Online Babblelot

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2013, 12:27:33 PM »
Novak is not killing tennis. His flexibility and defense is fun to watch, and his whippy groundstroke swings look good. He is fairly aggressive, and has a fun personality as shown in interviews

Murray on the other hand  :ZZZZZ)  He is a clever player, but his groundstrokes are not particularily special or attractive. He moves fast, but not uniquely sliding like Nole. He hardly ever comes to net. His personality is mostly swearing on court, shy off-court. Murray is killing tennis, from a large perspective.

I'm not saying they, as individuals, killed tennis. 

I'm say that Murray-Djokovic (vis-a-vis Federer-Nadal or Sampras-Agassi) killed tennis. It's just not generating interest. The semis (Djokovic-Delpo and Murray-Janowicz) were much more interesting and garnered more interest than Murray-Djokovic.


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I like ashwin#1's comments. Some of us here feel the same way.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 12:30:13 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2013, 12:58:35 PM »
Its kinda sad that I have to agree. Even though I really like Novak's personality and all, after all he's my countryman.
Being serbian its way easier to see Novak's charisma and sense of humor when he speaks interviews etc in mother's tongue.

I have a huge respect for Novak....
But I'm totally neutral when it comes to his tennis. There's huge potential he could adjust for me to like his game, but he already chose his style for what I can't root for. And Murray is even worse.

All this Murray-Djokovic rivalry is just painful to watch. USO 2012 final, now Wimbly 2013.  Not my cup of tea.
Not even commentators screaming and cheering loudly could influence me to get into the match. I'm just too neutral when it comes to matches like this even if it takes 10 hours to finish.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 01:01:14 PM by Lugburz »
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2013, 01:06:51 PM »
Also, even though I'm a bit too harsh on defensive and grinding players, I'm one of those who believe that slowing down surfaces is what killed tennis.
These players are only products of bigger machine in the sport.

But thank god there are still players out there defying those things. That's what keeps me watching tennis after all.
But to be honest its all fading on me, soon enough I probably won't have anyone to root for  :Confused:
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Offline Alex

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2013, 04:05:29 PM »
OK, I do have to agree that most of Nole/Murray matches suck. I, personally, do not like their rivalry and I said this before. Djokovic who usually plays that defense/offense tennis which I find very entertaining against anybody but Murray, turns into a pusher/grinder when he plays vs. Murray.

So, you get 2 pushers and boring matches. It is beyond me why Djokovic plays like this against Andy. So, Babs, yeah you do have a point here. 

Online monstertruck

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2013, 04:28:15 PM »
Also, even though I'm a bit too harsh on defensive and grinding players, I'm one of those who believe that slowing down surfaces is what killed tennis.These players are only products of bigger machine in the sport.

But thank god there are still players out there defying those things. That's what keeps me watching tennis after all.
But to be honest its all fading on me, soon enough I probably won't have anyone to root for  :Confused:
I agree.
I think that's what's allowed players to stay back and play more conservatively.  I can see myself not following the pro game in a few years and just playing and coaching a bit.
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Offline jesse james

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2013, 04:44:31 PM »
OK, I do have to agree that most of Nole/Murray matches suck. I, personally, do not like their rivalry and I said this before. Djokovic who usually plays that defense/offense tennis which I find very entertaining against anybody but Murray, turns into a pusher/grinder when he plays vs. Murray.

So, you get 2 pushers and boring matches. It is beyond me why Djokovic plays like this against Andy. So, Babs, yeah you do have a point here.

i find this odd too. Against Nadal, Djokovic has tended to go on the offensive in recent years, it's almost as if the players find they have to play a specific role against certain other players.
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2013, 04:49:30 PM »
OK, I do have to agree that most of Nole/Murray matches suck. I, personally, do not like their rivalry and I said this before. Djokovic who usually plays that defense/offense tennis which I find very entertaining against anybody but Murray, turns into a pusher/grinder when he plays vs. Murray.

So, you get 2 pushers and boring matches. It is beyond me why Djokovic plays like this against Andy. So, Babs, yeah you do have a point here.

i find this odd too. Against Nadal, Djokovic has tended to go on the offensive in recent years, it's almost as if the players find they have to play a specific role against certain other players.

Even weirder is that he always says like he wasn't enough aggressive. And he makes the same mistake again and again.
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Offline Alex

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2013, 05:11:19 PM »
I don't know guys. When Nole plays aggressive tennis he usually wins. That's what worked against Nadal. When Djokovic moves to his pusher/grinder mode he loses. I can't believe that Djokovic is not aware of that. It's only when he plays Murray. I'm also not sure what his trainer Vajda is telling him to do.

Tactically, Djokovic played the worst match of his life yesterday. 


Offline sid

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2013, 05:33:35 PM »
Lots of people forget that these 2 have played v each other since thay were 11 years old,thay will know each others game inside out.

Offline Alex

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2013, 05:47:19 PM »
Lots of people forget that these 2 have played v each other since thay were 11 years old,thay will know each others game inside out.

they do but that still has very little to do how they actually play against one another. Most of their matches are simply ugly. I misread the original post by Babs (sorry bud), but I do agree with him 100%.

If Djokovic doesn't play more aggressive tennis (and he bloody knows how to do it), I'll drop him as my favorite player. I'd rather see him being aggressive and losing than playing that grinder/pusher style sh!t. Honestly, I'm disgusted by his performance yesterday. He looked like a coward to me ... and nothing to take away from Murray btw.

Offline huntingyou

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2013, 06:43:20 PM »
What's missing it's contrast, these two are like watching yourself hit against a wall.


I will tell you why Novak doesn't play Murray like he does Nadal........he will LOSE. First of all, Nadal has a opening Novak can exploit which it's the high bouncing angled forehand to his backhand. This is how Novak beat Nadal. Totally different dynamics with Murray since well, he is a righty and  although his forehand can be exploited; Novak can't excuse the DTL backhand off Murray's CC backhand with any type of consistency. Murray CC backhand it's a beautiful shot with SO much variation....and he can hit it deep as well.


Alex it's being typical ignorant fan (sorry), Novak's problem wasn't his strategy but EXECUTION, it amazed me to see how people expect humans to be flawless day in and day out. Novak 40+ UFE........he wasn't sharp at all and it's obvious Delpony took a little bit of mental energies out of him.


Guess what, Novak ain't Roger or even Rafa.......you can't judge Novak's success based on what the previous two Greats did before him. His 2011 year was perhaps the highest level of consistent tennis display and it's silly to expect such level year after year....I mean, he lost to Rafa at RG and Murray at Wimbledon; both players are better than him on those respective surfaces anyways. It's always going to be an uphill battle.

Offline Alex

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2013, 07:25:56 PM »
What's missing it's contrast, these two are like watching yourself hit against a wall.


I will tell you why Novak doesn't play Murray like he does Nadal........he will LOSE. First of all, Nadal has a opening Novak can exploit which it's the high bouncing angled forehand to his backhand. This is how Novak beat Nadal. Totally different dynamics with Murray since well, he is a righty and  although his forehand can be exploited; Novak can't excuse the DTL backhand off Murray's CC backhand with any type of consistency. Murray CC backhand it's a beautiful shot with SO much variation....and he can hit it deep as well.


Alex it's being typical ignorant fan (sorry), Novak's problem wasn't his strategy but EXECUTION
, it amazed me to see how people expect humans to be flawless day in and day out. Novak 40+ UFE........he wasn't sharp at all and it's obvious Delpony took a little bit of mental energies out of him.


Guess what, Novak ain't Roger or even Rafa.......you can't judge Novak's success based on what the previous two Greats did before him. His 2011 year was perhaps the highest level of consistent tennis display and it's silly to expect such level year after year....I mean, he lost to Rafa at RG and Murray at Wimbledon; both players are better than him on those respective surfaces anyways. It's always going to be an uphill battle.
No Hunting, I didn't say it here but I did on MTF, UE were crucial decider in this match, but again and again djokovic made so many UE because he of his game style, sure he didn't execute it ... which came first the chicken or the egg ... However, I still stand by my point that Djokovic played sh!t. call it EXECUTION or whatever you want ... it was sh!t. as simple as that. Djokovic knows how to play against Murray. Be bloody aggressive and don't get into that grind/pushfest stuff ...

and please, calling me an ignorant fan, that's too low. I've been watching tennis for over 30 years. what I say here has nothing to do with me being a Nole fan. don't try to act as if you know more and patronize me at the same time... give me a break. I can call you 'ignorant' too. I remember some of your gems posted on tennis.com. back in 2007.

so, don't try to be too smart. I just lost all respect for you btw.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 07:45:42 PM by Alex »

Offline huntingyou

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2013, 07:55:13 PM »

No Hunting, I didn't say it here but I did on MTF, UE were crucial decider in this match, but again and again djokovic made so many UE because he of his game style, sure he didn't execute it ... which came first the chicken or the egg ... However, I still stand by my point that Djokovic played sh!t. call it EXECUTION or whatever you want ... it was sh!t. as simple as that. Djokovic knows how to play against Murray. Be bloody aggressive and don't get into that grind/pushfest stuff ...

and please, calling me an ignorant fan, that's too low. I've been watching tennis for over 30 years. what I say here has nothing to do with me being a Nole fan. don't try to act as if you know more and patronize me at the same time... give me a break. I can call you 'ignorant' too. I remember some of your gems you posted on tennis.com. back in 2007.

so, don't try to be too smart.

Point out to me when Novak has played ULTRA-AGGRESSIVE against Murray? It has never happened so it really boils down to whenever Novak wins then it's ok with you. Was he this ultra-aggressive at the AO final this year? The first two sets were marathons and no...I will not call it pushing and it's obvious MTF has done a number on you.  They can't hit through themselves so the winner will be the one who is more consistent and execute the pressure points better.

Novak was ahead in all three sets and that'why I said his strategy was the right one, the only one available to him in this particular match-up. He really has no special weapon ala Federer with his forehand to open the match on his own terms.

Finally, you contradict yourself, you said he was a pusher then attributes his 40+ UFE to his style selection for the match when typically pushers are the one who keep the ball in play. Novak attacked and when for his shots but they didn't land in. Yes he played bad; worst slam final since 2007 UO but not s**t. To call it that would be to ignore what Murray did in pressure situations.

You can call me however the hell you want, I don't lose any sleep over it so go ahead my friend. My point stands, you are a bitter fan that it's suffering from tunnel vision...very much a typical Federer fan syndrome. 

Offline Alex

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2013, 11:17:30 PM »
Hunting, shut the fu*ck up. You don't know what you are talking about. All you know is Rafa, Rafa ... so, don't try to sell me this sh!t.

Nadal and you should prey to Doping Gods ... at least Nole and Murray are clean. RAFA IS A DOPER. Everyone knows it. it's the biggest secret out there. I loved young Rafa, I lost all of my respect for him. It's everywhere, only blind people can't see it.

http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Doping,-Tennis,-Nadal---Connection-.aspx

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/22409004

knees my ars ... he is a cheater.... Armstrong got caught, Nadal will be too if there is any justice left in this world ...
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 11:22:25 PM by Alex »

Offline Swish

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2013, 11:34:41 PM »
Viewership for the Wimbledon final was down 40%.
 
 

Offline Clay Death

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2013, 11:41:52 PM »
calm down alex. your crying is not going to erase those 20 wins. nadal has no less than 20 wins against nole and that number will go up to about 23-24 next year. he has 20  wins against roger and he has around 13 wins against andy murray.
 
that is not accident. that is just hard work and relentless will at work.
 
 
andy, nole, and nadal are all good friends. they all hit with each other when the opportunity presents itself. nole and murray are extremely intelligent. they would easily and quickly distance themselves from nadal if what you claim is true. nole often helps nadal with his (nadal`s) foundation. and nadal returns the favor when he can.
 
 
tennis is the cleanest sport there is.
 
 
 
take your crying to mtf. there is a market for it there.
 
 
also there is no need to attack huntingyou. that is not how friends are made and kept.
 
we don't want a forum where we run around cursing and attacking people. that is not cool.
 
that is best done at mtf. we don't do that here.
 
 
lets take the high road and keep making friends  for the betterment of this great forum. life is more fun and more exciting with more friends.
 
 
nadal and roger have well over billion fans from around the globe. they don't think nadal is anything but a great athlete.
 
 
you are seeing the world through mtf colored glasses.
 
 
 
 
 
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 11:43:25 PM by Clay Death »

Offline Clay Death

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2013, 11:47:25 PM »
Viewership for the Wimbledon final was down 40%.



17 million brits watched the last final.


17.3 million brits watched this final.




also it is fairly easy to see why the viewership was down globally: they all wanted to see roger and nadal in the later rounds.


did you forget that they have a total of 29 slams between them.


nadal is now 3rd all time in slams. with 2 more he jumps to #2 all time.


it is hard to let go of these 2 all time greats so quickly and so easily. many say that they are the best in history.

Offline Swish

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2013, 11:49:35 PM »
Viewership for the Wimbledon final was down 40%.



17 million brits watched the last final.


17.3 million brits watched this final.




also it is fairly easy to see why the viewership was down globally: they all wanted to see roger and nadal in the later rounds.


did you forget that they have a total of 29 slams between them.


nadal is now 3rd all time in slams. with 2 more he jumps to #2 all time.


it is hard to let go of these 2 all time greats so quickly and so easily. many say that they are the best in history.

With Nadal and Fed out it cost quite a few viewers, some are just casual viewers and only know a few top names.
 
I would guess that is why.
 
 

Offline Clay Death

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2013, 11:52:47 PM »
 :)) :))

Offline Alex

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Re: Murray and Djokovic Killed Tennis
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2013, 12:00:16 AM »
Why would I care how many Brits watched the final. I couldn't care less  :Confused:. Do Brits know who is the Prime Minister of Canada? probably not.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 12:01:10 AM by Alex »