Author Topic: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open  (Read 3828 times)

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Online Babblelot

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Bill, Rafito, Alex, herc et. al., don't ever try to demonstrate anything by posting 30 shot rallies.

Shut up and watch some tennis for the first time in your lives.

Rafter v Agassi - US Open 1997 4th rd


herc, you think "today's players" are more athletic than Rafter? More fit than Rafter and Agassi? :rofl_2: :rofl_2: :hysterical:

At the risk of stating the obvious, you're delusional.   ;-()


OMG! They finished 4 sets on hard courts in 2:15!!!!!!

I was at this match and, no, I didn't feel cheated that it didn't go another 2 hours. My guy won! I couldn't be more thrilled.  :))
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 12:27:01 AM by Babblelot »
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Online Babblelot

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Re: Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2013, 12:13:10 AM »
Circa 1997 is where technology should have stopped.

Perfect blend of power and control.

Both attacking players and baseliners competed for top honors.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 10:41:59 AM by Babblelot »
1995 USO, 1997 USO, 2004 USO, 2005 RG, 2005 USO, 2006 RG, 2006 USO, 2007 USO, 2008 RG, 2008 USO, 2009 USO, 2010 USO, 2011 USO, 2012 USOhttp://www.gifsoup.com/view4/1856936/2005safin-o.gif
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Offline Alex

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Re: Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2013, 12:17:17 AM »
it's a great video, but you can go even more back in time. I'll try to post it later, need to find it first ...

I've seen the match and Rafter looks like a moron with that silly pony tale ...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 12:20:39 AM by Alex »

Online Babblelot

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Re: Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2013, 12:20:06 AM »
it's a great video, but you can go even more back in time. I'll try to post it later, need to find it first ...

Why bother?

Technology was perfected in 1997.
1995 USO, 1997 USO, 2004 USO, 2005 RG, 2005 USO, 2006 RG, 2006 USO, 2007 USO, 2008 RG, 2008 USO, 2009 USO, 2010 USO, 2011 USO, 2012 USOhttp://www.gifsoup.com/view4/1856936/2005safin-o.gif
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2013, 06:07:41 AM »
You don't see those guys stalling like some of the pussies do today.

Repetitive 30 shot WTAesque rallies are about as interesting (and difficult) as riding a bike. 
CONK da ball!!!

Offline Clay Death

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2013, 06:32:13 AM »
good work monster. keep the threads coming. you and babbs are making it happen at the tennis discussion page. keep it going.
 
 
 
 :)) :))

Offline williamchung7

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2013, 07:06:12 AM »
No, no Babblelot, I maybe not in the same group with you , but I am one who really like proactive and aggressive tennis.

Roger Federer vs Marat Safin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3L70M5gxvw

TMC 2004 SF Federer vs Safin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CF-n1XGvMU

ATP 2004 Austrlain Open QF Roddick vs Safin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDfLkLJQ3GM

ATP.2004.Australian.Open.SF.Safin.vs.Agassi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdX4Tn-2Evo

Safin can finish 5 set match within 3 hours. :)~

Offline Orange Wombat

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2013, 08:19:44 AM »
(HD 1080p) Roger Federer vs Jarkko Nieminen Rotterdam 2012 QF - HIGHLIGHTS


This is tennis too. Don' have to look so far into the past. Enjoy, and stop being so pessimistic.

Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2013, 09:09:07 AM »
good work monster. keep the threads coming. you and babbs are making it happen at the tennis discussion page. keep it going.
 
 
 
 :)) :))
You have no idea how much the support of someone like yourself means to me!  Have a great day!
CONK da ball!!!

Online Babblelot

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This is tennis too. Don' have to look so far into the past. Enjoy, and stop being so pessimistic.

You're missing the point.

You do have to go back to 1997 technology, otherwise everything herc says holds.

Capisce?

1997

Technology

Gottit?


Bill, the ^same to you. Though IMO the 2005 AO SF between Fed and Safin is the GOAT, by 2004 the baseliners had already dominated the top 20. You have to keep going back, circa 1997. Both attacking players and baseliners competed for top honors. The Top 20 was evenly divided among them. True balance and variety. It's all about variety.

Change the technology and the court speeds together. I don't think you can change the court speeds alone. These muscle men gladiators can cope with 1997 power and control (HA!!). They'll just have to camp on the baseline, not 12 feet behind. Remember, the style "baseliner" came from guys playing from the baseline!!!


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« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 10:43:48 AM by Babblelot »
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Offline Swish

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2013, 10:54:56 AM »
I did see some of that match posted.
 
It was OK.
 
At least the action was quick, no one walking around for countless minutes.
 
 

Online Babblelot

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I did see some of that match posted.
 
It was OK.
 
At least the action was quick, no one walking around for countless minutes.

1) if you watched the match live you'd have felt like the rest of the world. What you're watching live is always going to trump footage. I didn't bother watching the Wimbledon final-not because I was boycotting it-but because I overslept. When I turned on the match, Murray was holding the trophy. No interest in watching it on delay over at ABC already knowing the outcome.

2) If I spent a day chopping the Rafter-Agassi match up into 30 second highlights like the kids do today with their matches, you'd have a far different attitude.

When I watch a match and say (while I'm posting) "Another patty cake rally between too pussies too scared to take chances!" some silly kid here will post the greatest 30 ball rally ever played and say, "What are you talking about? Look how awesome this is."

If I had the time, a lot of time, l'd teach myself how to splice video then cherry pick the hours of nonsesence from today's matches, and put it on YouTube.


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« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 12:09:27 AM by Babblelot »
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Offline Lugburz

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2013, 05:00:59 PM »
I remember watching matches like these with my dad, Rafter was one of my favorite players back then.
This is what I want today, clean, fast paced and uncompromised tennis.
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Online Babblelot

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I remember watching matches like these with my dad, Rafter was one of my favorite players back then.
This is what I want today, clean, fast paced and uncompromised tennis.

Yeah, these super human guys can get by with the freakin' technology they used as kids. Oh, no doubt it would affect their ability to win playing defense first, second, and third and force them to play from less advantageous court position, like the court!!


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Offline Clay Death

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2013, 05:59:42 PM »
good work monster. keep the threads coming. you and babbs are making it happen at the tennis discussion page. keep it going.
 
 
 
 :)) :))
You have no idea how much the support of someone like yourself means to me!  Have a great day!



good work mate. I am enjoying your and babb`s threads.


you guys are rocking the tennis discussion page.



and you both are making very valid points.



 :)) :))

Offline dmastous

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2013, 07:16:04 PM »
So I think I'll return to T4U with this thread. Won't post as often, but will try and post now and then.
On this subject I think Babble is a bit off on the tech concept.
What we are seeing is the computerization of tennis. Basically, finding the absolute best way to win in a consistent way. The most effective swing for a forehand or a backhand. The most effective tactics, and the players who put them in practice the best. The homogenization of the surfaces so we didn't get the three shot rallys at Wimbledon in match after match.
Though perhaps some of the newest tech wasn't around in 1997, most of the most dramtic tech changes had already happened. One thing that was different was the players. Andre Agassi and Pat Rafter both started playing tennis with wooden frames. They were just not yet taking full advantage of the larger sweet spots these frames provided, and lack of torque from the perimeter weighting many racquets had, even at that time. The Federer/Nadal/Murray/Djokovic crowd are the first to truely grow up with  these frames and take advantage of the full potential of them (though maybe Fed started with a wood frame for a couple of years).
The other thing that these players didn't have was poly strings. But the only thing poly strings give is an ability to swing harder to get more spin. Agassi at this time was using Prince Pro Blend which was kevlar in the main strings and synthetic cross stings. Keflar is basically high tech rope. It allowed Agassi to get pretty much the same feel as poly. The drawback to kevlar was that it didn't hold tension for that long. Not a problem for Agassi who probably had his racquets strung that day like most pros do now.
I agree with Babble in that this is a better quality of tennis. More variety, and quicker pace of play. But to me the tech was already there, it was just waiting for players to figure out how to take best advantage of it.
I would say; take away frames larger than 90, or even 85 sq inches, and perimeter weighting. Make the sweet spots smaller which will cut down on the more extreme low to high swings, which deliver the massive top spin players get today. Perhaps some string restrictions as well, but I'm not sure that's a great idea. As I said kevlar gives the same feel (in a sense) that poly does. Stringing a racquet at 80+ pounds also gives the same feel, but it's not good for the frame. But outlawing poly will just make the players find other ways to get a dead racquet feel so they can get the spin they want. Make the racquets smaller, and the sweet spot smaller and get rid of perimeter weighting will make the players flatten out their swings and loose some of the top spin. That may bring back some of the variety back to tennis.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 07:16:46 PM by dmastous »

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Offline Lugburz

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2013, 07:25:41 PM »
Oh its good to see you back dmast!!!  :thumbs-up:

Wonderful post by the way  ;-()

I really hope you stick around this time.
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Offline Emma

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2013, 07:33:14 PM »
Welcome Dmas! Long time no see!  :)
You are everything I am not.

Offline Swish

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2013, 07:42:17 PM »
Good to see you Dmast. 
 
Drop by now and then when you can.

Online Babblelot

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2013, 07:52:16 PM »
Yeah, good to see you back, Dmast! I was saying about a month ago that I was the prick that pissed you off. We don't talk politics at T4U anymore. Anyway, glad you're back. Folks here have missed you a lot and will be thrilled to see you're back. Now all we need back is Pacer and we'll be whole again.


As for your comments, new tech (frames, strings, grommets) since 1997 have impacted control massively. Dudes just can't make the shots they pull out of their asses without crazy control.


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