Author Topic: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open  (Read 3803 times)

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Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2013, 11:28:50 AM »
Interesting.
I read that a different way GBY.
Seemed to be more of a slap at the forum in general rather than you personally.  I don't think of you as inside the bubble.
Anywhooo.....
CONK da ball!!!

Offline Lugburz

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2013, 11:32:26 AM »
Interesting.
I read that a different way GBY.
Seemed to be more of a slap at the forum in general rather than you personally.  I don't think of you as inside the bubble.
Anywhooo.....

yep me too  :)
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Offline Babblelot

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2013, 11:39:04 AM »
Deleting this post!

Sacre bleu!!!  :scared:


I don't want people to think GBY and I are feuding. He is a gentleman (as you already know) and sent me nice PM's. We hugged it out.

Total misunderstanding.

 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 12:51:43 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline dmastous

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2013, 11:57:41 AM »
So MT, I am actually saying that there have been no technological changes to tennis in the past 20 years that have significantly changed the game.
I agree with you that current use of poly strings have changed swing paths tremendously, but as I said before; Kevlar gives you the same kind of dead feel. That's what Agassi used. Bjorn Borg strung his racquets at 80+ psi. The frames would break in his bag flying from one tournament to the next. But stringing at 80 psi gave him the same kind of dead feel that poly gives players now. It took tremendous talent to be able to play that way. I agree with Masterclass that these larger frames make tennis an easier game. It's still takes talent, but not as much as in the past.
In fact poly is not a new technology. It was introduced to tennis in the 80's, but got completely ignored at that time. Probably because it's a dead string, and sweet spots at that time were only just beginning to get bigger.
My comment originally was to point out to Babblelot that given the technology that Agassi and Cash were using during their US Open match in 1997, had they learned to play using that technology, the match would have been very much like tennis is played today.
There have been some minor developments in technology, but nothing that has changed the game like larger frames with  bigger sweet spots. Regulate that and you will get your serve/volley game back. Eventually.

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Offline Gawdblessya

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2013, 12:19:38 PM »
Babblelot -   given Monstertruck/ Lugburz and your subsequent comments, I re-read your post & can see what you meant. I misunderstood it when responding. The way I read it before responding, you were objecting to my comment.
In any event, it would have been more neighbourly to ask you to clarify what you meant, than to make an assumption, and I apologise unreservedly for my response to you. 
As for being out of my league - you know zilch about me. Suffice it to say that I don't come to this board to have arguments - but hope we can cross swords via constructive discussions.  I hope we can shake hands, and you'll let me buy you a drink or two sometime. Cheers.
Carpe Diem

Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2013, 12:23:12 PM »
So you're saying the majority of pros were using kevlar or poly in the early 90's??? :confused1:

Agreed, on the point that the larger frames are the major culprit.
A bit fuzzy on when the biggest leap was made by the majority of pros.
If I had to guess I would say mid to late 90's when many top players made the leap to 100 sq. inch heads.  Smaller grips, lighter frames, whippy strokes, etc.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 12:35:48 PM by monstertruck »
CONK da ball!!!

Offline Babblelot

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2013, 12:24:41 PM »
Babblelot -   given Monstertruck/ Lugburz and your subsequent comments, I re-read your post & can see what you meant. I misunderstood it when responding. The way I read it before responding, you were objecting to my comment.
In any event, it would have been more neighbourly to ask you to clarify what you meant, than to make an assumption, and I apologise unreservedly for my response to you. 
As for being out of my league - you know zilch about me. Suffice it to say that I don't come to this board to have arguments - but hope we can cross swords via constructive discussions.  I hope we can shake hands, and you'll let me buy you a drink or two sometime. Cheers.


Shee-AAAW, you know zilch about me, holmes!

Anyway, I piss people off and shake hands every other day of my life.

I didn't have a problem with you. You have one with me!  :rofl_2: :hysterical:

Pfft...I don't care. A lot of people feel the same way about me as you  ;-()

:beer:

 

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Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2013, 12:35:25 PM »
So you're saying the majority of pros were using kevlar or poly in the early 90's??? :confused1:

Agreed, on the point that the larger frames are the major culprit.
A bit fuzzy on when the biggest leap was made by the majority of pros.
If I had to guess I would say mid to late 90's when many top players made the leap to 100 sq. inch heads.  Smaller grips, lighter frames, whippy strokes, etc.

So maybe there was no error on my part but reading comprehension on yours  ;-()

Your best poster, dmast (excellent btw)  couldn't be any more clear about what he meant on his last post.

BTW, very FEW players uses a 100sq size..........even club players don't use that big of a size, damn even myself a nobody in tennis uses a 98sq size.   Do you know how many pros uses 100sq? I know Rafa is one, in the other hand Novak uses a 93sq if I'm not mistaken.   Didn't Pete went up to 88sq recently? I know Wilson made one specially for him.

Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2013, 12:38:45 PM »
hey bab, I forget to mention, I had to "fast forward" most of Rafter's service games on your link. Too boring and predictable, in addition to I'm not keen on players that gift points. I loved Sampras in his earlier part of his career.......he would stay back and rally but Sampras had a GREAT forehand unlike Rafter.


Could you provide a link to a Hewitt/Rafter or even Hewitt and Sampras match?  ;-()

Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2013, 12:39:46 PM »
So you're saying the majority of pros were using kevlar or poly in the early 90's??? :confused1:

Agreed, on the point that the larger frames are the major culprit.
A bit fuzzy on when the biggest leap was made by the majority of pros.
If I had to guess I would say mid to late 90's when many top players made the leap to 100 sq. inch heads.  Smaller grips, lighter frames, whippy strokes, etc.

So maybe there was no error on my part but reading comprehension on yours  ;-()

Your best poster, dmast (excellent btw)  couldn't be any more clear about what he meant on his last post.

BTW, very FEW players uses a 100sq size..........even club players don't use that big of a size, damn even myself a nobody in tennis uses a 98sq size.   Do you know how many pros uses 100sq? I know Rafa is one, in the other hand Novak uses a 93sq if I'm not mistaken.   Didn't Pete went up to 88sq recently? I know Wilson made one specially for him.
I just read the list.
There are many ATPers using 100 sq. inch head.
Give me a sec, and I'll provide a link.

btw DMast is not my 'best poster.  He's his own man. ;-()

A bit of clarification as to when he thinks poly came into vogue for the majority of ATPers isn't quite so clear.
CONK da ball!!!

Offline monstertruck

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CONK da ball!!!

Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2013, 12:42:50 PM »
So you're saying the majority of pros were using kevlar or poly in the early 90's??? :confused1:

Agreed, on the point that the larger frames are the major culprit.
A bit fuzzy on when the biggest leap was made by the majority of pros.
If I had to guess I would say mid to late 90's when many top players made the leap to 100 sq. inch heads.  Smaller grips, lighter frames, whippy strokes, etc.

So maybe there was no error on my part but reading comprehension on yours  ;-()

Your best poster, dmast (excellent btw)  couldn't be any more clear about what he meant on his last post.

BTW, very FEW players uses a 100sq size..........even club players don't use that big of a size, damn even myself a nobody in tennis uses a 98sq size.   Do you know how many pros uses 100sq? I know Rafa is one, in the other hand Novak uses a 93sq if I'm not mistaken.   Didn't Pete went up to 88sq recently? I know Wilson made one specially for him.
I just read the list.
There are many ATPers using 100 sq. inch head.
Give me a sec, and I'll provide a link.

btw DMast is not my 'best poster.  He's his own man. ;-()

A bit of clarification as to when he thinks poly came into vogue for the majority of ATPers isn't quite so clear.

He said this: So MT, I am actually saying that there have been no technological changes to tennis in the past 20 years that have significantly changed the game.

and that was my point all along about my reference to his post, it takes a big man to admit when he is wrong you know.

Offline Babblelot

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2013, 12:43:27 PM »
hey bab, I forget to mention, I had to "fast forward" most of Rafter's service games on your link. Too boring and predictable, in addition to I'm not keen on players that gift points. I loved Sampras in his earlier part of his career.......he would stay back and rally but Sampras had a GREAT forehand unlike Rafter.


Could you provide a link to a Hewitt/Rafter or even Hewitt and Sampras match?  ;-()

Touche'  ;-()

I've been waiting for that! Rafter is all attack all the time, isn't he? Maybe I wouldn't go that far  :whistle:

That said, I definitely would like to see more variety. Is that too much to ask, my friend?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 12:44:06 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2013, 12:44:29 PM »
Read it and weep.
http://www.tennisthis.com/tennis-racquet-reviews/which-tennis-racquets-do-atp-pros-use/

Or better yet, comprehend Dat!


Thanks for that link.

There different sizes BTW, I just clicked on Robin's one:

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Head_YOUTEK_IG_Prestige_Pro/descpageRCHEAD-HYIGPP.html?from=this


so you meant a 100sq equals 98sq?

Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2013, 12:45:51 PM »
So you're saying the majority of pros were using kevlar or poly in the early 90's??? :confused1:

Agreed, on the point that the larger frames are the major culprit.
A bit fuzzy on when the biggest leap was made by the majority of pros.
If I had to guess I would say mid to late 90's when many top players made the leap to 100 sq. inch heads.  Smaller grips, lighter frames, whippy strokes, etc.

So maybe there was no error on my part but reading comprehension on yours  ;-()

Your best poster, dmast (excellent btw)  couldn't be any more clear about what he meant on his last post.

BTW, very FEW players uses a 100sq size..........even club players don't use that big of a size, damn even myself a nobody in tennis uses a 98sq size.   Do you know how many pros uses 100sq? I know Rafa is one, in the other hand Novak uses a 93sq if I'm not mistaken.   Didn't Pete went up to 88sq recently? I know Wilson made one specially for him.
I just read the list.
There are many ATPers using 100 sq. inch head.
Give me a sec, and I'll provide a link.

btw DMast is not my 'best poster.  He's his own man. ;-()

A bit of clarification as to when he thinks poly came into vogue for the majority of ATPers isn't quite so clear.

He said this: So MT, I am actually saying that there have been no technological changes to tennis in the past 20 years that have significantly changed the game.

and that was my point all along about my reference to his post, it takes a big man to admit when he is wrong you know.
So either poly isn't considered a major breakthrough or it's use preceded the 20 year limit.  Which is it?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 12:47:36 PM by monstertruck »
CONK da ball!!!

Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #75 on: July 14, 2013, 12:47:57 PM »
hey bab, I forget to mention, I had to "fast forward" most of Rafter's service games on your link. Too boring and predictable, in addition to I'm not keen on players that gift points. I loved Sampras in his earlier part of his career.......he would stay back and rally but Sampras had a GREAT forehand unlike Rafter.


Could you provide a link to a Hewitt/Rafter or even Hewitt and Sampras match?  ;-()

Touche'  ;-()

I've been waiting for that! Rafter is all attack all the time, isn't he? Maybe I wouldn't go that far  :whistle:

That said, I definitely would like to see more variety. Is that too much to ask, my friend?

 :rofl_2:

we understand each other I think.

yes, more variety....I'm all for that. You realize I'm one of the few ones that actually understand your stand. I said, bring a FULL grass season, a full fast indoor season. That way, little kids in academies around the world would learn am more "All court" game with a flair of S&V.....the surfaces will reward it.

At this point, there is nothing you can do for the pros...they will not change no matter what. But the future can be better for sure and I agree you there.

Offline Lugburz

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #76 on: July 14, 2013, 12:49:29 PM »
Thats the way to debunk his claims, MT

Both Rafa and Novak use 100 sq



Rafa 100 sq. in. / 645.16 sq. cm.
Novak 100 sq. in. / 645.16 sq. cm.
Tommy 98 sq. in. / 632.26 sq. cm.

Interesting  :)

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------------------------------------------------------

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Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #77 on: July 14, 2013, 12:49:52 PM »
Read it and weep.
http://www.tennisthis.com/tennis-racquet-reviews/which-tennis-racquets-do-atp-pros-use/

Or better yet, comprehend Dat!


Thanks for that link.

There different sizes BTW, I just clicked on Robin's one:

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Head_YOUTEK_IG_Prestige_Pro/descpageRCHEAD-HYIGPP.html?from=this


so you meant a 100sq equals 98sq?
Nppe, that's not what I said.
Eeeeegads, now you want me to go through the entire list and pick out the ones who use 100 s.i.?
Damn you Man!!!
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Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #78 on: July 14, 2013, 12:52:55 PM »

So either poly isn't considered a major breakthrough or it's use preceded the 20 year limit.  Which is it?

Didn't he talk about Borg in the late 70s already using 80 psi, which effectively provided him the "dead feeling" string?

Yes, technology has advance from the 90s but the big point all along it's the players and academies teaching the game with a whole different perspective than what your 90s players did.

The grips along can change the dynamics tremendously. The Rafa's of the world, grew up with a full western forehand and a oversize racket unlike Sampras who developed his strokes with a wood racket.

Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #79 on: July 14, 2013, 12:53:57 PM »
Eight out of the first 16 on the list use 100 s.i.
I'm not going any further!
It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. ;-() ;-()
CONK da ball!!!