Author Topic: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open  (Read 4189 times)

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Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #80 on: July 14, 2013, 12:55:29 PM »
Thats the way to debunk his claims, MT

Both Rafa and Novak use 100 sq



Rafa 100 sq. in. / 645.16 sq. cm.
Novak 100 sq. in. / 645.16 sq. cm.
Tommy 98 sq. in. / 632.26 sq. cm.

Interesting  :)

I said Rafa uses a 100sq.

Novak at some used a 93 I believe, not sure and I said I wasn't sure about Novak. The tour is compromise of 100s of players not just a handful..

btw, what's the deal with debunking my claims? I was mostly asking for a list of players that uses a 100............and being inquisitive about it

I have taken it easy on you, I could easily make you look silly so don't push your luck kid.

Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #81 on: July 14, 2013, 12:55:54 PM »

So either poly isn't considered a major breakthrough or it's use preceded the 20 year limit.  Which is it?

Didn't he talk about Borg in the late 70s already using 80 psi, which effectively provided him the "dead feeling" string?

Yes, technology has advance from the 90s but the big point all along it's the players and academies teaching the game with a whole different perspective than what your 90s players did.

The grips along can change the dynamics tremendously. The Rafa's of the world, grew up with a full western forehand and a oversize racket unlike Sampras who developed his strokes with a wood racket.
He did, but I wouldn't consider that 'widespread' use as I stated.
I didn't think the discussion had as much to do with the teaching as it did with the actual technology itself.
CONK da ball!!!

Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #82 on: July 14, 2013, 12:56:08 PM »
Read it and weep.
http://www.tennisthis.com/tennis-racquet-reviews/which-tennis-racquets-do-atp-pros-use/

Or better yet, comprehend Dat!


Thanks for that link.

There different sizes BTW, I just clicked on Robin's one:

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Head_YOUTEK_IG_Prestige_Pro/descpageRCHEAD-HYIGPP.html?from=this


so you meant a 100sq equals 98sq?
Nppe, that's not what I said.
Eeeeegads, now you want me to go through the entire list and pick out the ones who use 100 s.i.?
Damn you Man!!!


I already did  ;-()

Online Babblelot

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #83 on: July 14, 2013, 12:56:47 PM »
hey bab, I forget to mention, I had to "fast forward" most of Rafter's service games on your link. Too boring and predictable, in addition to I'm not keen on players that gift points. I loved Sampras in his earlier part of his career.......he would stay back and rally but Sampras had a GREAT forehand unlike Rafter.


Could you provide a link to a Hewitt/Rafter or even Hewitt and Sampras match?  ;-()

Touche'  ;-()

I've been waiting for that! Rafter is all attack all the time, isn't he? Maybe I wouldn't go that far  :whistle:

That said, I definitely would like to see more variety. Is that too much to ask, my friend?

 :rofl_2:

we understand each other I think.

yes, more variety....I'm all for that. You realize I'm one of the few ones that actually understand your stand. I said, bring a FULL grass season, a full fast indoor season. That way, little kids in academies around the world would learn am more "All court" game with a flair of S&V.....the surfaces will reward it.

At this point, there is nothing you can do for the pros...they will not change no matter what. But the future can be better for sure and I agree you there.

Yes, indeed I have noticed that you "get" me. Likewise. I've never thought poorly of you now or going way back, especially since you and I are allies  ;-()  I always miss you when you're not around. But for all I know, you've always been here, just hiding out in the chats  :dunno:
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 01:21:03 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #84 on: July 14, 2013, 12:59:11 PM »
Read it and weep.
http://www.tennisthis.com/tennis-racquet-reviews/which-tennis-racquets-do-atp-pros-use/

Or better yet, comprehend Dat!


Thanks for that link.

There different sizes BTW, I just clicked on Robin's one:

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Head_YOUTEK_IG_Prestige_Pro/descpageRCHEAD-HYIGPP.html?from=this


so you meant a 100sq equals 98sq?
Nppe, that's not what I said.
Eeeeegads, now you want me to go through the entire list and pick out the ones who use 100 s.i.?
Damn you Man!!!


I already did  ;-()
:phew:

So what percentage did you come up with?
CONK da ball!!!

Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2013, 12:59:25 PM »

So either poly isn't considered a major breakthrough or it's use preceded the 20 year limit.  Which is it?

Didn't he talk about Borg in the late 70s already using 80 psi, which effectively provided him the "dead feeling" string?

Yes, technology has advance from the 90s but the big point all along it's the players and academies teaching the game with a whole different perspective than what your 90s players did.

The grips along can change the dynamics tremendously. The Rafa's of the world, grew up with a full western forehand and a oversize racket unlike Sampras who developed his strokes with a wood racket.
He did, but I wouldn't consider that 'widespread' use as I stated.
I didn't think the discussion had as much to do with the teaching as it did with the actual technology itself.

Technology was enabler for the teachings......but the technology was already in place by the early 90s. That's all, the strokes from today's pros are maximizing that technology and at this point, you are better off re-calibrating the tour by getting away from a HC predominant sport to a equal opportunity for all surfaces with a greater spectrum of speed while perhaps restricting "some" of the technology for future generations 

Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #86 on: July 14, 2013, 01:02:57 PM »
Read it and weep.
http://www.tennisthis.com/tennis-racquet-reviews/which-tennis-racquets-do-atp-pros-use/

Or better yet, comprehend Dat!


Thanks for that link.

There different sizes BTW, I just clicked on Robin's one:

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Head_YOUTEK_IG_Prestige_Pro/descpageRCHEAD-HYIGPP.html?from=this


so you meant a 100sq equals 98sq?
Nppe, that's not what I said.
Eeeeegads, now you want me to go through the entire list and pick out the ones who use 100 s.i.?
Damn you Man!!!


I already did  ;-()
:phew:

So what percentage did you come up with?


68 players in total.....I'm eating give me a few

Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #87 on: July 14, 2013, 01:05:49 PM »
hey bab, I forget to mention, I had to "fast forward" most of Rafter's service games on your link. Too boring and predictable, in addition to I'm not keen on players that gift points. I loved Sampras in his earlier part of his career.......he would stay back and rally but Sampras had a GREAT forehand unlike Rafter.


Could you provide a link to a Hewitt/Rafter or even Hewitt and Sampras match?  ;-()

Touche'  ;-()

I've been waiting for that! Rafter is all attack all the time, isn't he? Maybe I wouldn't go that far  :whistle:

That said, I definitely would like to see more variety. Is that too much to ask, my friend?

 :rofl_2:

we understand each other I think.

yes, more variety....I'm all for that. You realize I'm one of the few ones that actually understand your stand. I said, bring a FULL grass season, a full fast indoor season. That way, little kids in academies around the world would learn am more "All court" game with a flair of S&V.....the surfaces will reward it.

At this point, there is nothing you can do for the pros...they will not change no matter what. But the future can be better for sure and I agree you there.

Yes, indeed I have noticed that "get" me. I've never thought poorly of you now or going way back, especially since you and I are allies  ;-()  I always miss you when you're not around. But for all I know, you've always been here, just hiding out in the chats  :dunno:

I appreciate that!

Indeed, sometimes....some BS it's going politically and I think..."I know bab most be having a field day with that"  :rofl_2:

I can' really post as much as I would like, there is always the nagging from the significant half so I can't enjoy all my hobbies.  But I do follow for the most part.

Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #88 on: July 14, 2013, 01:06:01 PM »

So either poly isn't considered a major breakthrough or it's use preceded the 20 year limit.  Which is it?

Didn't he talk about Borg in the late 70s already using 80 psi, which effectively provided him the "dead feeling" string?

Yes, technology has advance from the 90s but the big point all along it's the players and academies teaching the game with a whole different perspective than what your 90s players did.

The grips along can change the dynamics tremendously. The Rafa's of the world, grew up with a full western forehand and a oversize racket unlike Sampras who developed his strokes with a wood racket.
He did, but I wouldn't consider that 'widespread' use as I stated.
I didn't think the discussion had as much to do with the teaching as it did with the actual technology itself.

Technology was enabler for the teachings......but the technology was already in place by the early 90s. That's all, the strokes from today's pros are maximizing that technology and at this point, you are better off re-calibrating the tour by getting away from a HC predominant sport to a equal opportunity for all surfaces with a greater spectrum of speed while perhaps restricting "some" of the technology for future generations
That is where we disagree.
However, we agree that the tour should move towards and equal opportunity for all surfaces and perhaps restrictions on future tech advances.
Of course we both know this is pure fantasy..... :\
The manufacturers won't let that happen. :(
CONK da ball!!!

Offline Lugburz

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #89 on: July 14, 2013, 01:08:30 PM »
Thats the way to debunk his claims, MT

Both Rafa and Novak use 100 sq



Rafa 100 sq. in. / 645.16 sq. cm.
Novak 100 sq. in. / 645.16 sq. cm.
Tommy 98 sq. in. / 632.26 sq. cm.

Interesting  :)

I said Rafa uses a 100sq.

Novak at some used a 93 I believe, not sure and I said I wasn't sure about Novak. The tour is compromise of 100s of players not just a handful..

btw, what's the deal with debunking my claims? I was mostly asking for a list of players that uses a 100............and being inquisitive about it

I have taken it easy on you, I could easily make you look silly so don't push your luck kid.

Please oh please make me look silly  :rofl_2:

Also why I said that he debunked your claims is because of this:

BTW, very FEW players uses a 100sq size..........even club players don't use that big of a size, damn even myself a nobody in tennis uses a 98sq size.   Do you know how many pros uses 100sq? I know Rafa is one, in the other hand Novak uses a 93sq if I'm not mistaken.   Didn't Pete went up to 88sq recently? I know Wilson made one specially for him.
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #90 on: July 14, 2013, 01:12:43 PM »
Thats the way to debunk his claims, MT

Both Rafa and Novak use 100 sq



Rafa 100 sq. in. / 645.16 sq. cm.
Novak 100 sq. in. / 645.16 sq. cm.
Tommy 98 sq. in. / 632.26 sq. cm.

Interesting  :)

I said Rafa uses a 100sq.

Novak at some used a 93 I believe, not sure and I said I wasn't sure about Novak. The tour is compromise of 100s of players not just a handful..

btw, what's the deal with debunking my claims? I was mostly asking for a list of players that uses a 100............and being inquisitive about it

I have taken it easy on you, I could easily make you look silly so don't push your luck kid.

Please oh please make me look silly  :rofl_2:

Also why I said that he debunked your claims is because of this:

BTW, very FEW players uses a 100sq size..........even club players don't use that big of a size, damn even myself a nobody in tennis uses a 98sq size.   Do you know how many pros uses 100sq? I know Rafa is one, in the other hand Novak uses a 93sq if I'm not mistaken.   Didn't Pete went up to 88sq recently? I know Wilson made one specially for him.
Be careful Luggy, it takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. ;-()

I went about halfway through the list of top pros and nearly half use 100 s.i. heads.  Over 75% use poly, mostly the Lux.

I guess the big question is when exactly did this major shift in head size and strings (i.e. the technology) take place.  I thought it was  within the past 20 years.  Not prior to that, though it may have been available it was not in widespread use on the tour.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 01:16:05 PM by monstertruck »
CONK da ball!!!

Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #91 on: July 14, 2013, 01:17:34 PM »
...and to answer an earlier question, Sampras did up the head size once off the tour and made some comment like 'I should have done this years ago'.  What a ding dong.
CONK da ball!!!

Online Babblelot

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #92 on: July 14, 2013, 01:26:45 PM »
hey bab, I forget to mention, I had to "fast forward" most of Rafter's service games on your link. Too boring and predictable, in addition to I'm not keen on players that gift points. I loved Sampras in his earlier part of his career.......he would stay back and rally but Sampras had a GREAT forehand unlike Rafter.


Could you provide a link to a Hewitt/Rafter or even Hewitt and Sampras match?  ;-()

Touche'  ;-()

I've been waiting for that! Rafter is all attack all the time, isn't he? Maybe I wouldn't go that far  :whistle:

That said, I definitely would like to see more variety. Is that too much to ask, my friend?

 :rofl_2:

we understand each other I think.

yes, more variety....I'm all for that. You realize I'm one of the few ones that actually understand your stand. I said, bring a FULL grass season, a full fast indoor season. That way, little kids in academies around the world would learn am more "All court" game with a flair of S&V.....the surfaces will reward it.

At this point, there is nothing you can do for the pros...they will not change no matter what. But the future can be better for sure and I agree you there.

Yes, indeed I have noticed that you "get" me. Likewise. I've never thought poorly of you now or going way back, especially since you and I are allies  ;-()  I always miss you when you're not around. But for all I know, you've always been here, just hiding out in the chats  :dunno:

Yeah, well we don't do that here anymore because... hmmm, now who was it  :whistle:  But I never found you a lightning rod or polarizing member. Seems you get your share of grief, though  :rofl_2:

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Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #93 on: July 14, 2013, 01:26:57 PM »
Be careful Luggy, it takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. ;-()

I went about halfway through the list of top pros and nearly half use 100 s.i. heads.  Over 75% use poly, mostly the Lux.

I guess the big question is when exactly did this major shift in head size and strings (i.e. the technology) take place.  I thought it was  within the past 20 years.  Not prior to that, though it may have been available it was not in widespread use on the tour.

Ok, My perception was WRONG, according to that list which I don't how official it is because I found some inconsistencies; 30 players out of 68 uses a 100sq. I couldn't believe someone like Stepanek uses a 100sq for example.

I remember in 2008, Novak's racket came into discussion and it was mentioned he used a 93sq which I found it small. I know he changed rackets and then struggle for a bit but anyways, his racket looks smaller to me.

So yes, I was wrong........it seems that perhaps over 40% of the tour uses a 100sq.

Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #94 on: July 14, 2013, 01:29:50 PM »
Thats the way to debunk his claims, MT

Both Rafa and Novak use 100 sq



Rafa 100 sq. in. / 645.16 sq. cm.
Novak 100 sq. in. / 645.16 sq. cm.
Tommy 98 sq. in. / 632.26 sq. cm.

Interesting  :)

I said Rafa uses a 100sq.

Novak at some used a 93 I believe, not sure and I said I wasn't sure about Novak. The tour is compromise of 100s of players not just a handful..

btw, what's the deal with debunking my claims? I was mostly asking for a list of players that uses a 100............and being inquisitive about it

I have taken it easy on you, I could easily make you look silly so don't push your luck kid.

Please oh please make me look silly  :rofl_2:

Also why I said that he debunked your claims is because of this:

BTW, very FEW players uses a 100sq size..........even club players don't use that big of a size, damn even myself a nobody in tennis uses a 98sq size.   Do you know how many pros uses 100sq? I know Rafa is one, in the other hand Novak uses a 93sq if I'm not mistaken.   Didn't Pete went up to 88sq recently? I know Wilson made one specially for him.

The gloves are off with you, just so you know........so be careful on your future posts when addressing me again or perhaps the board  ;-()

Offline monstertruck

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #95 on: July 14, 2013, 01:31:20 PM »
Be careful Luggy, it takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. ;-()

I went about halfway through the list of top pros and nearly half use 100 s.i. heads.  Over 75% use poly, mostly the Lux.

I guess the big question is when exactly did this major shift in head size and strings (i.e. the technology) take place.  I thought it was  within the past 20 years.  Not prior to that, though it may have been available it was not in widespread use on the tour.

Ok, My perception was WRONG, according to that list which I don't how official it is because I found some inconsistencies; 30 players out of 68 uses a 100sq. I couldn't believe someone like Stepanek uses a 100sq for example.

I remember in 2008, Novak's racket came into discussion and it was mentioned he used a 93sq which I found it small. I know he changed rackets and then struggle for a bit but anyways, his racket looks smaller to me.

So yes, I was wrong........it seems that perhaps over 40% of the tour uses a 100sq.
40% sounds about right.
...and from your comment, it sounds like you 'perceive' that that shift to larger head sizes hasn't culminated until recently which would certainly fall under the 20 year limit.

Here, have your big man award. :first-place:
CONK da ball!!!

Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #96 on: July 14, 2013, 01:33:37 PM »

Yeah, well we don't do that here anymore because... hmmm, now who was it  :whistle:  But I never found you a lightning rod or polarizing member. Seems you get your share of grief, though  :rofl_2:

those were heated debates. To be honest, my style in the past could be abrasive. In the other hand, I made a living exposing roger's fans....and this is his temple after all.  ://     

Online Babblelot

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Ok, My perception was WRONG,


Oh, good for you, hunting. My track record of never being wrong remains in tact.


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« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 01:35:10 PM by Babblelot »
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Offline huntingyou

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Re: This is tennis. Do you recognize it? Rafter-Agassi 4R 1997 US Open
« Reply #98 on: July 14, 2013, 01:36:50 PM »
Be careful Luggy, it takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. ;-()

I went about halfway through the list of top pros and nearly half use 100 s.i. heads.  Over 75% use poly, mostly the Lux.

I guess the big question is when exactly did this major shift in head size and strings (i.e. the technology) take place.  I thought it was  within the past 20 years.  Not prior to that, though it may have been available it was not in widespread use on the tour.

Ok, My perception was WRONG, according to that list which I don't how official it is because I found some inconsistencies; 30 players out of 68 uses a 100sq. I couldn't believe someone like Stepanek uses a 100sq for example.

I remember in 2008, Novak's racket came into discussion and it was mentioned he used a 93sq which I found it small. I know he changed rackets and then struggle for a bit but anyways, his racket looks smaller to me.

So yes, I was wrong........it seems that perhaps over 40% of the tour uses a 100sq.
40% sounds about right.
...and from your comment, it sounds like you 'perceive' that that shift to larger head sizes hasn't culminated until recently which would certainly fall under the 20 year limit.

Here, have your big man award. :first-place:

Some players coming up are using 95 (Dimitrov) or 98.........that shift you speak off; not idea to be honest. What was Agassi, Muster, Courier, Bruguera, Moya, Kuerten, Kefelnikov racket size? This could tell us a little bit more. Those were "old" players that made a living from the baseline.

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Ok, My perception was WRONG,


Oh, good for you, hunting. My track record of never being wrong remains in tact.


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Never????

man don't make me dig stuff up  :rofl_2:

so you do believe this shift to bigger frame took place at the end of the 90s? Most players like rafa came in early 00s............although Robredo for some reason uses a 102sq and he an older dude, Ferrer as well uses a 100sq.