Author Topic: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!  (Read 1179 times)

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Offline NADAL2005RG

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2013, 02:37:29 AM »
Well I still can't think of one bad thing about playing Round One on a Saturday. You couldn't pay me a billion dollars to support a roof at any of the slams.
“It is not too far way,” Toni Nadal told The Australian after Nadal collected the 13th major of his career by mowing down Novak Djokovic in an electrifying final of the US Open. “It is getting very, very close for Rafa to be level with Roger or more.”

Online Babblelot

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2013, 07:09:21 PM »
Well I still can't think of one bad thing about playing Round One on a Saturday. You couldn't pay me a billion dollars to support a roof at any of the slams.

Meh... if you just want to watch the Open on TV, I can't imagine anyone would care about any proposed changes to the schedule or environs. But from my POV--someone who actually goes to the Open during the first week every year--beginning play before Monday is an awful idea. (There's one caveat at the US Open.) Monday is an enormous day, big crowds, action everywhere and tons of energy. You start extending the tournament another day or two and you lose a lot of that, as you wind up with an abbreviated schedule, which really bites if all the matches are played on featured courts.

The one caveat is that at the US Open, not as bad as other venues. Even at Montreal, you had separate tickets for the 2 stadiums. At the US Open, the only non-GA stadium is AA. A grounds pass will get you into everything else. 

In any event, if you go to the Open, extending the tournament will give you less of an opportunity to see some of the higher ranked players like Ferrer, Berdych, Del Potro, etc..

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Offline Rafa816

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2013, 11:12:39 PM »
Plus there's USO seeds playing in WS, which ends that same Sunday.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline NADAL2005RG

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2013, 11:59:00 PM »
Still haven't seen a negative for playing Round One on Saturday. US Open is way too rigid in terms of scheduling. Wimbledon is already doomed due to the roof (which takes about 30 minutes to shut because they have to properly air condition before play can resume). Nadal slaughtered Rosol in the 4th set, and then had to wait half an hour for the roof to close (and air conditioning) before playing the 5th set, and it never even rained. They say they chose to close it because they were told by weather experts that the light was expected to fade in the next 30 minutes lol. Wimbledon tournament director later apologized for the poor decision-making. If Wimbledon's organizers don't know when the right time is to close the roof, I suspect the US Open organizers will be just as bad or worse. 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 12:03:13 AM by NADAL2005RG »
“It is not too far way,” Toni Nadal told The Australian after Nadal collected the 13th major of his career by mowing down Novak Djokovic in an electrifying final of the US Open. “It is getting very, very close for Rafa to be level with Roger or more.”

Online Babblelot

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2013, 12:03:08 AM »
Still haven't seen a negative for playing Round One on Saturday. US Open is way too rigid in terms of scheduling. Wimbledon is already doomed due to the roof (which takes about 30 minutes to shut because they have to properly air condition before play can resume). Nadal slaughtered Rosol in the 4th set, and then had to wait half an hour for the roof to close (and air conditioning) before playing the 5th set, and it never even rained. They say they chose to close it because they the light was expected to fade in the next 30 minutes lol. Wimbledon tournament director later apologized for the poor decision-making. If Wimbledon's organizers don't know when the right time is to close the roof, I suspect the US Open organizers will be just as bad or worse.

And that's because you sit on you butt and watch it on the tele.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 12:03:46 AM by Babblelot »
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Offline Rafa816

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2013, 12:39:50 AM »
Still haven't seen a negative for playing Round One on Saturday. US Open is way too rigid in terms of scheduling. Wimbledon is already doomed due to the roof (which takes about 30 minutes to shut because they have to properly air condition before play can resume). Nadal slaughtered Rosol in the 4th set, and then had to wait half an hour for the roof to close (and air conditioning) before playing the 5th set, and it never even rained. They say they chose to close it because they were told by weather experts that the light was expected to fade in the next 30 minutes lol. Wimbledon tournament director later apologized for the poor decision-making. If Wimbledon's organizers don't know when the right time is to close the roof, I suspect the US Open organizers will be just as bad or worse.

Again, people will still be in another state playing another tournament. And that roof closing annoyed me, too, but it doesn't matter. Nadal obviously wasn't at his best. The lull in order to close the roof shouldn't have affected him. He shouldn't have taken that long to start affecting Rosol in the first place. The fact is, he lost the match, and he then didn't play for seven months. He obviously was hurt so it's not like he would've done much afterwards if he did manage to win the match.

The roofs make it possible to play in the rain. That's something that we need.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline NADAL2005RG

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2013, 02:46:59 AM »
Still haven't seen a negative for playing Round One on Saturday. US Open is way too rigid in terms of scheduling. Wimbledon is already doomed due to the roof (which takes about 30 minutes to shut because they have to properly air condition before play can resume). Nadal slaughtered Rosol in the 4th set, and then had to wait half an hour for the roof to close (and air conditioning) before playing the 5th set, and it never even rained. They say they chose to close it because they were told by weather experts that the light was expected to fade in the next 30 minutes lol. Wimbledon tournament director later apologized for the poor decision-making. If Wimbledon's organizers don't know when the right time is to close the roof, I suspect the US Open organizers will be just as bad or worse.


Again, people will still be in another state playing another tournament. And that roof closing annoyed me, too, but it doesn't matter. Nadal obviously wasn't at his best. The lull in order to close the roof shouldn't have affected him. He shouldn't have taken that long to start affecting Rosol in the first place. The fact is, he lost the match, and he then didn't play for seven months. He obviously was hurt so it's not like he would've done much afterwards if he did manage to win the match.

The roofs make it possible to play in the rain. That's something that we need.


Nadal shouldn't have taken that long? Why do you say that? Nadal had injection marks on his knees after numbing them to play Halle and Wimbledon. He had no choice but to take a long time to get into the groove. Whenever you play with a numb knee on a low-bouncing surface especially, you don't move well until deep into the match, and you definitely don't play well after sitting for 30 minutes.

And in addition to that, its called momentum. Nadal is the best in the world at it. He won the 4th set 6-2 and would have got the early break in the 5th set, no doubt about it.
“It is not too far way,” Toni Nadal told The Australian after Nadal collected the 13th major of his career by mowing down Novak Djokovic in an electrifying final of the US Open. “It is getting very, very close for Rafa to be level with Roger or more.”

Offline Rafa816

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2013, 06:50:29 AM »
Exactly. He had to numb his knee just to play the match. So even if they didn't close the roof and he did win the match, it's not like it would've made much of a difference. I agree, he probably would've won the match had they not closed the roof. But it's all said and done and he wouldn't have lasted much longer anyways. The point is, the USO has faced a Monday final 5 years in a row because of rain. They need a roof. Monday finals are rather inconvenient.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline NADAL2005RG

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2013, 07:31:40 AM »
Exactly. He had to numb his knee just to play the match. So even if they didn't close the roof and he did win the match, it's not like it would've made much of a difference. I agree, he probably would've won the match had they not closed the roof. But it's all said and done and he wouldn't have lasted much longer anyways. The point is, the USO has faced a Monday final 5 years in a row because of rain. They need a roof. Monday finals are rather inconvenient.

Nadal played an extremely good match vs Rosol. Rosol played lights-out and generally took the match out of Nadal's hands (even though Rosol lost control of the match in the 4th set). Nadal hit 41 winners and 16 unforced errors. I compared the Rosol match to a couple of Nadal's 2010 Wimbledon matches in week one where he was taken to 5 sets. The level Nadal played vs Rosol was better, and certainly good enough to reach the QFs (or better) if he was able to get past Rosol. Given Nadal's reputation for playing with pain (and painkillers), it was unwise for you to say "he wouldn't have lasted much longer anyways".  Nadal had some major knee problems during his triumphant 2010 Wimbledon, by the way.

The fact is, Nadal took 7 months off after Wimbledon last year not because he had to, but  because he chose to. Toni said they won't rely on the "bandaid solutions" (painkillers) that they used in the past. The pain Nadal had at the end of 2012 Roland Garros and Halle/Wimbledon was nothing new. He had severe pain at the end of 2008 and from what I read he did not recover from that, and ended up winning the 2009 Australian Open by taking painkillers throughout. If Toni had refused to rely on "bandaid solutions" at the end of 2008, Nadal would have skipped the 2009 Australian Open and perhaps never won the Career Grand slam. The price of immortality is often close to mortality. If Nadal beat Rosol in 2012 Wimbledon, all results would have remained possible. The 30 minute roof break, cost Nadal more than just a 2nd Round victory.

The French Open was able to start on a Sunday. So there is no reason why the US Open couldn't. The events in the week preceding the US Open are capable of accommodating the US Open's Saturday or Sunday start. Anyway, too late now, the US Open is committed to a roof. Let's hope they use it a little more wisely than Wimbledon has.
“It is not too far way,” Toni Nadal told The Australian after Nadal collected the 13th major of his career by mowing down Novak Djokovic in an electrifying final of the US Open. “It is getting very, very close for Rafa to be level with Roger or more.”

Offline Rafa816

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2013, 08:54:36 AM »
You are preaching to the choir here. I too am a Nadal fan who was pissed about the roof closing possibly costing him the match. But the thing is, he needed to reject the band aid solutions of the past. Obviously, they weren't working. They weren't preventing the problems. They were pushing them forward. Now Nadal is playing without tape because, hopefully, they've fixed the problem long term and we won't see any more 3-7 month breaks along the way that will cost him slams. The fact of the matter is, if Toni had seen this before, maybe he wouldn't have gotten the 2009 Australian, but he also would remain undefeated at the French, and probably would've been able to compete more capably in the 2012 Wimbledon, and would've continued playing in the Olympics, 2012 USO, and 2013 Australian. Maybe that loss is what spurred them on to reject the band aid solution and get Nadal to really try to fix the problem. And if the roof is what was needed to give him that loss and that motivation, then thank goodness it was there.

Yeah, the French started on a Sunday. And a ton of the players were pissed about it and thought it was a disgrace.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline NADAL2005RG

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2013, 09:39:51 AM »
Well I'd rather Nadal get that 2009 AO (if that turned out to be his only AO title) and lose 2009 Roland Garros. Plus I think Nadal's parents separating played a greater role in his Roland Garros loss and Wimbledon withdrawal than his knees. I haven't read his autobiography, but those who have read it hinted that Nadal admitted it was his parents separation that was the biggest problem that year. Nadal played an exhibition match vs Hewitt at the Wimbledon courts just before 2009 Wimbledon. Before the exhibition, Nadal said if he could complete the match then he'd play Wimbledon. Nadal completed the match. Then he said he was withdrawing from Wimbledon because he was "not 100% and didn't want to compete at less than 100%". I think he just lost motivation because of his parents separation. May sound extreme to some, but Nadal lives with his parents. So the impact is large. His parents then got back together and Nadal won 3 consecutive slams in 2010.

Losing at Roland Garros is most likely going to happen anyway at some stage as he passes age 30. Makes no difference to me whether he lost in 2009 or 2017, or lost once or twice. Whereas it makes a huge difference to me whether he wins/won the Career Grand Slam or not. So I have no regrets, regarding Toni's approach. At some point they had to stop the bandaid solutions, but 2008-2009 did not have to be that time. Nadal was striking while the iron was hot. He'd just won Wimbledon, Olympic Gold and the Number One ranking. I don't think a 7 month break from tennis was realistic at that point. Plus, Nadal has said before that he enjoys the feeling of fighting through pain and defying physical odds. Its hard to resist the challenge.

I'm just grateful that Nadal won 2009 Australian Open when he could. Because its the most hazardous surface of all (slow hardcourt, long rallies). Long rallies are fine on clay. But on hardcourt, it suicide. I know Nadal will shorten the rallies there in future (compared to his 2009-2012 approach), but he still will have to play long points and maybe 5-setters vs guys like Murray/Djokovic/Federer/Ferrer. The slam for Nadal to skip every year is the AO. Injured at 2010 AO QF vs Murray. Injured at 2011 QF vs Ferrer. It could happen again. So I wouldn't necessarily presume Nadal was destined to win AO beyond 2009. He was close to winning in 2012, but he was even closer to losing in 4 sets.
“It is not too far way,” Toni Nadal told The Australian after Nadal collected the 13th major of his career by mowing down Novak Djokovic in an electrifying final of the US Open. “It is getting very, very close for Rafa to be level with Roger or more.”

Offline Rafa816

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2013, 11:41:30 AM »
I wouldn't. Because I have no doubt that he can win the AO again. He got that close in 2012. Who knows? If the problem was completely gone at that time, maybe he would've been able to win it. It's not like the pain just appeared at RG and Wimbledon. He had it throughout, including AO 2012.

Not necessarily. He was 18 when he first won the FO. It's not necessarily bizarre to say that if he could win it when he was that young, he could win it once he starts his decline as well because of just how dominant he is on clay.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline NADAL2005RG

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2013, 02:36:37 PM »
I wouldn't. Because I have no doubt that he can win the AO again. He got that close in 2012. Who knows? If the problem was completely gone at that time, maybe he would've been able to win it. It's not like the pain just appeared at RG and Wimbledon. He had it throughout, including AO 2012.

Not necessarily. He was 18 when he first won the FO. It's not necessarily bizarre to say that if he could win it when he was that young, he could win it once he starts his decline as well because of just how dominant he is on clay.

I agree Nadal COULD have won the AO after 2009. But could/can isn't good enough. I appreciate that he won it in 2009 rather than waiting for 2014. I mean, you don't want to delay getting the Career Grand Slam. It can so easily slip away, as it has in most cases. 

I agree Nadal will win Roland Garros after his decline, not just because he's the most dominant player ever, but also because the upcoming era probably won't have any claycourters as good as Djokovic/Federer.  So indeed Nadal can decline heavily and still win Roland Garros in future.
“It is not too far way,” Toni Nadal told The Australian after Nadal collected the 13th major of his career by mowing down Novak Djokovic in an electrifying final of the US Open. “It is getting very, very close for Rafa to be level with Roger or more.”

Offline August

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2013, 11:15:12 AM »
Great to get a roof also to the USO, it's getting to be a standard for slams. Even world's biggest tennis stadium looks pathetic without a roof. Hopefully the FO will also get the planned roof.

It's necessary, though. I mean, 5 years in a row that the final got moved to Monday. That's a huge pain in the butt for the USTA, having to go over tons of angry customers demanding refunds because they can't make the Monday final. It's so bad that they scheduled the final on a Monday this year. They NEED to be able to play even while it's raining.

If the USTA matter, then yes its necessary. I don't care about the USTA though obviously. I care about the actual tennis. I know some people do, but I don't like indoor tennis at all. The US Open would never have to play a Monday final if they played Round One on Saturday and Sunday. Does the event really have to start on a Monday?

But the USTA are the ones making the decision, and they do what's best for them. Personally, I'm pretty indifferent to the roof. Don't care either way. But in the same way that you are opposed to roofs, others think it's stupid that the French starts on a Sunday instead of Monday.

I think I read somewhere the Monday final was somehow related to televising, the broadcaster had something important for the Sunday evening but nothing special for Monday. Also, five Monday finals obviously wasn't the only reason for the schedule change, the Stupid Saturday sucked. And I think I read that the new broadcaster in 2014/15/?? would like a Sunday final.

My fear is that this year we'll see a Tuesday final.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 11:16:12 AM by August »

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Online Babblelot

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Re: Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2013, 01:35:03 PM »
Don't know why would you mind it. It means no messy schedules and probably no ridiculous windy finals.

Not the case.

We will still see windy finals. The roof will only be used in the case of rain. My guess is that it will be used to prevent a washout. Rain delays may be acceptable if the rain is passing. Just my hunch as they emphasize this remaining an outdoor event.





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Offline NADAL2005RG

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Re: Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2013, 03:07:56 PM »
Don't know why would you mind it. It means no messy schedules and probably no ridiculous windy finals.

Not the case.

We will still see windy finals. The roof will only be used in the case of rain. My guess is that it will be used to prevent a washout. Rain delays may be acceptable if the rain is passing. Just my hunch as they emphasize this remaining an outdoor event.





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I hope it remains 99% outdoor. I like the wind, because it separates the pansies from the powerhouses  :cloud 9:
“It is not too far way,” Toni Nadal told The Australian after Nadal collected the 13th major of his career by mowing down Novak Djokovic in an electrifying final of the US Open. “It is getting very, very close for Rafa to be level with Roger or more.”

Offline Rafa816

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2013, 05:12:22 PM »
I wouldn't. Because I have no doubt that he can win the AO again. He got that close in 2012. Who knows? If the problem was completely gone at that time, maybe he would've been able to win it. It's not like the pain just appeared at RG and Wimbledon. He had it throughout, including AO 2012.

Not necessarily. He was 18 when he first won the FO. It's not necessarily bizarre to say that if he could win it when he was that young, he could win it once he starts his decline as well because of just how dominant he is on clay.

I agree Nadal COULD have won the AO after 2009. But could/can isn't good enough. I appreciate that he won it in 2009 rather than waiting for 2014. I mean, you don't want to delay getting the Career Grand Slam. It can so easily slip away, as it has in most cases. 

I agree Nadal will win Roland Garros after his decline, not just because he's the most dominant player ever, but also because the upcoming era probably won't have any claycourters as good as Djokovic/Federer.  So indeed Nadal can decline heavily and still win Roland Garros in future.

Either way, it's really down to being the tourney director's fault, not the roof's fault. They closed it, if I remember correctly, for the sake of light, not for the sake of rain. That's obviously not going to happen at the USO, because they have lights without having to close the roof.

Also, the roof is still necessary. The fans and players both hate the idea of starting early, and also a Monday final is inconvenient for everyone (ticket holders, event organizers, broadcasters, etc.) So in order to avoid both of those, a good solution is a roof.

Rafa is the FIRST to qualify for WTF this year! :D

Offline NADAL2005RG

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2013, 11:10:33 PM »
I wouldn't. Because I have no doubt that he can win the AO again. He got that close in 2012. Who knows? If the problem was completely gone at that time, maybe he would've been able to win it. It's not like the pain just appeared at RG and Wimbledon. He had it throughout, including AO 2012.

Not necessarily. He was 18 when he first won the FO. It's not necessarily bizarre to say that if he could win it when he was that young, he could win it once he starts his decline as well because of just how dominant he is on clay.

I agree Nadal COULD have won the AO after 2009. But could/can isn't good enough. I appreciate that he won it in 2009 rather than waiting for 2014. I mean, you don't want to delay getting the Career Grand Slam. It can so easily slip away, as it has in most cases. 

I agree Nadal will win Roland Garros after his decline, not just because he's the most dominant player ever, but also because the upcoming era probably won't have any claycourters as good as Djokovic/Federer.  So indeed Nadal can decline heavily and still win Roland Garros in future.

Either way, it's really down to being the tourney director's fault, not the roof's fault. They closed it, if I remember correctly, for the sake of light, not for the sake of rain. That's obviously not going to happen at the USO, because they have lights without having to close the roof.

Also, the roof is still necessary. The fans and players both hate the idea of starting early, and also a Monday final is inconvenient for everyone (ticket holders, event organizers, broadcasters, etc.) So in order to avoid both of those, a good solution is a roof.

Exactly the tournament director's fault. And if your tournament director doesn't know how to use a roof, then should that slam really have one? A solution is the roof, if the US Open knows how to use it. That remains to be seen.

Another thing Wimbledon did wrong was close the roof in anticipation of rain (and in anticipation of bad light which never came, the Rosol-Nadal match). They actually begun matches with the roof closed, and then it turned out there was no rain. If the US Open makes this blunder too, not a good idea. The actual tennis (outdoor sport) suffers. The ticket holders/broadcasters/organizers may matter more to you, but I care about the actual tennis. The US Open has succeeded for a long time now as an outdoor event. So did Wimbledon.
“It is not too far way,” Toni Nadal told The Australian after Nadal collected the 13th major of his career by mowing down Novak Djokovic in an electrifying final of the US Open. “It is getting very, very close for Rafa to be level with Roger or more.”

Offline August

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2013, 03:10:46 AM »
If you talk about Rosol-Nadal 5th set, the 4th set ended at 8:46pm, about 30 mins before you need to stop playing. So you needed to select between playing half of the 5th set and then having a 30min break or closing the roof immediately. And Wimbledon has the lights installed in the roof because you can't play outdoors on grass after the sun has set. The cooling temperature causes dew to condensate to the grass, making it slippery. That's why you need to have indoor conditions to enable playing after the sun has set.

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Offline Lugburz

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Re: At last !!! Retractable roof to be built over Arthur Ashe Stadium !!
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2013, 08:46:29 AM »
Well if roof won't prevent the ridiculous windy finals, then I don't care.

I'm almost always for the technology if that will improve the sport. Heck, football needs that goal line thing, still can't forget that non-existing goal vs Liverpool in CL couple of years ago.

So the only issue remains is the scheduling. When you watch it on TV or so, I couldn't care less if its Monday, Thursday or Sunday, for obvious reasons.
But sometimes it's hard to watch postponed match, simply because you can never know with the rain. So I really hate to miss the matches because of it.


On a side note, I can't stand windy conditions. It's more of a badminton than tennis.
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