Author Topic: ATP 500 - China Open, Beijing, China(Sep 30 - October 6)  (Read 942 times)

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Offline Gawdblessya

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Re: ATP 500 - China Open, Beijing, China(Sep 30 - October 6)
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2013, 11:06:15 AM »
I hope you weren't taking my assessment of Nadal's QF match as an excuse for him losing that first set. 
................

Thanks for the response, The Logo. - at least, I think you were responding to me.  :)

Yes, as a matter of fact, I did think it was an excuse. And I'm aware that Nadal suffers from ongoing injury.  It would be obtuse to say that these things don't have an effect - of course they do. And he has played a lot after his return, that too is true.

But I do not and cannot accept that he is unbeatable,even when at his brilliant best. Nor do I accept that he can't  & does not lose momentum, even when fresh as a daisy.  Rare though it is to do, like any other player, take him out of his groove, and he is prone to letting the momentum slip. This is what I saw FF do in the QF and he deserves that acknowledgement.

Monstertruck - your point about Williams is spot on.  The malaise you point to in the women's game is embarrassing.  But then,is the Men's game very much different?   Would you expect anyone other than Djokovic or Nadal to win Shanghai?    My answer to that question is "no". 
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 11:10:11 AM by Gawdblessya »
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: ATP 500 - China Open, Beijing, China(Sep 30 - October 6)
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2013, 11:22:45 AM »
I think the ATP is completley different than the WTA.
To even have 2nd name to offer up as a contender makes it 100% different. ;-()  One could also make the case that there are several players who can contend for titles and the level of play is consistently better throughout the tour.

.....and, I don't think anyone would dispute that the top dogs on the ATP focus entirely on tennis and are committed to realizing their potential.  Quite the opposite of The Serena Story.
Perhaps a testament to just how great a player she is. :)
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Offline Mertov

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Re: ATP 500 - China Open, Beijing, China(Sep 30 - October 6)
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2013, 11:56:15 AM »
GBY and MT, you will be pleased to know (you may already know) that Mrnyi is one of the nicest guys on the tour.  Very down-to-earth, well-liked by his peers, and quite funny too.  Very soft-spoken, awkward almost considering his stature.

Offline Gawdblessya

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Re: ATP 500 - China Open, Beijing, China(Sep 30 - October 6)
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2013, 12:05:16 PM »
..........
Perhaps a testament to just how great a player she is. :)

Monstertuck,  I feel unable to comment on the difference in the level of commitment of the ATP / WTA players, as I don't have any information to hand.   But your above point about Williams is well made.

My comparison was about the predictability of outcomes on the men's tour, not that there is only a single contender.   Thank God there is more than one contender on the men's tour!  :))

Despite that though, and going back to the point of predictability, how many titles are won by the predictable names, if they play the tournament? The bulk of them.  This has been a talking point in tennis for a while, and I think we had some discussions going here too. 

Mertov, I went to look at your blog a few days ago,in the hope you'd posted something.  It's nice to hear from you.    Thanks for the information on Mirnyi.  I've always liked him - I think he was world number27 or 28 at one time,and he played doubles with Federer. But I became a fan after reading his story a few years ago.  It was very touching, and he sounds like a great guy. Your endorsement of him helps strengthen my support of him.   :)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 12:15:16 PM by Gawdblessya »
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: ATP 500 - China Open, Beijing, China(Sep 30 - October 6)
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2013, 12:54:54 PM »
GBY and MT, you will be pleased to know (you may already know) that Mrnyi is one of the nicest guys on the tour.  Very down-to-earth, well-liked by his peers, and quite funny too.  Very soft-spoken, awkward almost considering his stature.
Thanks Mertov.
I'd seen a few interviews with Max and he seemed to be just a regular Joe who is a fantastic tennis player.  I really enjoyed the scenes of him with his family and when I saw him carrying some fishing poles I just knew he had to be a swell guy! :)) ;-()  Nice to see a person like that enjoying some professional success.
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: ATP 500 - China Open, Beijing, China(Sep 30 - October 6)
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2013, 12:56:24 PM »
..........
Perhaps a testament to just how great a player she is. :)

Monstertuck, I feel unable to comment on the difference in the level of commitment of the ATP / WTA players, as I don't have any information to hand.    But your above point about Williams is well made.

My comparison was about the predictability of outcomes on the men's tour, not that there is only a single contender.   Thank God there is more than one contender on the men's tour!  :))

Despite that though, and going back to the point of predictability, how many titles are won by the predictable names, if they play the tournament? The bulk of them.  This has been a talking point in tennis for a while, and I think we had some discussions going here too. 

Mertov, I went to look at your blog a few days ago,in the hope you'd posted something.  It's nice to hear from you.    Thanks for the information on Mirnyi.  I've always liked him - I think he was world number27 or 28 at one time,and he played doubles with Federer. But I became a fan after reading his story a few years ago.  It was very touching, and he sounds like a great guy. Your endorsement of him helps strengthen my support of him.   :)
Neither do I.
It's an opinion based on feeling rather than fact which makes it especially suspect in my eyes! :zipped:
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Offline TheLogo

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Re: ATP 500 - China Open, Beijing, China(Sep 30 - October 6)
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2013, 04:39:26 PM »
I hope you weren't taking my assessment of Nadal's QF match as an excuse for him losing that first set. 
................

Thanks for the response, The Logo. - at least, I think you were responding to me.  :)

Yes, as a matter of fact, I did think it was an excuse. And I'm aware that Nadal suffers from ongoing injury.  It would be obtuse to say that these things don't have an effect - of course they do. And he has played a lot after his return, that too is true.

But I do not and cannot accept that he is unbeatable,even when at his brilliant best. Nor do I accept that he can't  & does not lose momentum, even when fresh as a daisy.  Rare though it is to do, like any other player, take him out of his groove, and he is prone to letting the momentum slip. This is what I saw FF do in the QF and he deserves that acknowledgement.

Monstertruck - your point about Williams is spot on.  The malaise you point to in the women's game is embarrassing.  But then,is the Men's game very much different?   Would you expect anyone other than Djokovic or Nadal to win Shanghai?    My answer to that question is "no".

Nah man.  Lol.  I hardly think Nadal is unbeatable.  Even when he is fresh.  He has never had that consistency that Federer had and I don't believe that in any of my posts I was making an excuse or trying to take something away from Fogini. 

Rather, like I said, being a long time Nadal fan I watch every twinge he makes with horror.  Knowing that all it takes is one match on that weak knee and he is out for another 4-5 months.  Thus, why (even though I agree 100% with monster that Nadal is a rhythm player) I believe the Guy needs to cut some of these little tournaments out from the schedule and rest up. 

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Offline Gawdblessya

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Re: ATP 500 - China Open, Beijing, China(Sep 30 - October 6)
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2013, 05:07:42 PM »
..............
I don't believe that in any of my posts I was making an excuse or trying to take something away from Fogini..............

Thanks for taking the trouble to clarify your point again. You know best what you meant, The Logo, , and it isn't for me to contradict that. I commented as I did because of how it seemed to me, and to discuss the point. I didn't mean to cause you any offence & apologise if I did.

The things I took away from that match was how well Fognini can play, and how incredible Nadal's win to win is. 

What did you think of the finals match?
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Offline TheLogo

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Re: ATP 500 - China Open, Beijing, China(Sep 30 - October 6)
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2013, 07:51:45 PM »
Pretty much what I expected. 

Nole looked solid this tournament and I just don't think Rafa can compete with him on this surface at this time of year.

First 3 games confirmed that as they were over in a blink of the eye.  Nole held serve very easy, attacked Rafa's serve and had him on a string in rallies.  Nadal tried to compensate for the speed by standing in closer, but that also causes him to hit more unforced errors.

After that start, we saw Rafa really fighting to hold his games and Nole pretty much breezing through his service games with pinpoint accuracy on a solid first serve.

2nd set, with Nadal up 40-30, and losing that point on a mis-hit, I figured that may be all she wrote.  Sure enough, Nole capitalized and never let his "A" game slip while Rafa just didn't have the weapons to compete. 

For Nadal to compete with Novak on this surface, he is definitely going to have to tweak his game even more.  Nole already is taller and has an easier time with Rafa's topspin to his backhand, but on this surface, those balls don't get any air and seem to spin right into Djoker's strike zone.  This means, that Nole has no problem going into Rafa's forehand to set up space on that backhand side. 

Plus, Nadal has to just put out too much in his service games.  He is fighting for every service game, and that is his character, but just a little too much to ask I think here. 

All in all, a great match from Novak.  It reminded me a bit of the end of the 2nd and 3rd set at the US Open, when Novak absolutely dictated and dominated play against Rafa (before faltering).  Right now, this may be Nole's time of the year for the foreseeable future.  I don't really see Murray getting to him much either on these surfaces.

I would like to say that here at the China Open, Novak reminded me a bit of vintage Federer when he was hitting the corners of the service boxes with his groundstrokes in rallies and making it look so easy.  His game can be a beautiful thing to watch.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 07:53:03 PM by TheLogo »
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