Non-Tennis Discussions > General Discussions

Humans, progress and the future.

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monstertruck:

--- Quote from: Babblelot on September 20, 2013, 08:21:14 PM ---Human progress aside, this planet is gonna burn or freeze. Mars II? Or, perhaps, some people along the, oh, I don't know...pfft, of course Americans will survive! God blessed America! And Americans will start over. The owner class will find themselves some slaves rebuild their fortunes. Feudalism will emerge.

That's just human nature.

If you were wondering, Karma is something that rich people invented to make poor people feel better about themselves, if only for a brief moment.

--- End quote ---
That is one sweet quote right there B!


In general, folks are safer, fatter, live longer and enjoy greater creature comforts than our predecessors.

One could argue that by reducing the effects of natural selection the world will eventually be populated and governed by the likes of Honey Boo Boo.  I don't consider that progress or enlightening. ;-()

jesse james:

--- Quote from: Babblelot on September 20, 2013, 08:21:14 PM ---Human progress aside, this planet is gonna burn or freeze. Mars II? Or, perhaps, some people along the, oh, I don't know...pfft, of course Americans will survive! God blessed America! And Americans will start over. The owner class will find themselves some slaves rebuild their fortunes. Feudalism will emerge.

That's just human nature.

If you were wondering, Karma is something that rich people invented to make poor people feel better about themselves, if only for a brief moment.

--- End quote ---

well, you need to be specific about what you mean, and the thread is actually about human progress.
Of course you're right in terms of the earth- 'planet is gonna burn or freeze', the suns luminosity is very slowly increasing and ice ages are a common feature of recent geological history. My own favorite candidate for human extinction is increased vulcanism-geologically it's been a major force in shaping extinctions on earth. Given reality of the Yellowstone Caldera, i'm not sure why you think nature would single out the US for survival, given that geological catastrophes on the scale of a super-volcano would transcend national and class boundaries.
  I take your point about karma, but i don't think religions have been entirely inimical to human progress, but in terms of the role of religion in terms of status and class struggle you have to go with Marx and his  A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right;
  The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

    Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
 
 

jesse james:

--- Quote from: monstertruck on September 21, 2013, 04:16:34 AM ---
--- Quote from: Babblelot on September 20, 2013, 08:21:14 PM ---Human progress aside, this planet is gonna burn or freeze. Mars II? Or, perhaps, some people along the, oh, I don't know...pfft, of course Americans will survive! God blessed America! And Americans will start over. The owner class will find themselves some slaves rebuild their fortunes. Feudalism will emerge.

That's just human nature.

If you were wondering, Karma is something that rich people invented to make poor people feel better about themselves, if only for a brief moment.

--- End quote ---
That is one sweet quote right there B!


In general, folks are safer, fatter, live longer and enjoy greater creature comforts than our predecessors.

One could argue that by reducing the effects of natural selection the world will eventually be populated and governed by the likes of Honey Boo Boo.  I don't consider that progress or enlightening. ;-()

--- End quote ---

I know your last point was flippant, but it's interesting that many people would think that natural selection, and therefore some notional idea of progress in terms of the human phenotype is the norm, when the reality is that stasis is far more common in evolutionary terms. Zebra's, lions, spiders, humans, tend to be the same for Millennia rather than being in a state of constant evolutionary flux.

monstertruck:

--- Quote from: jesse james on September 21, 2013, 09:31:56 AM ---
--- Quote from: monstertruck on September 21, 2013, 04:16:34 AM ---
--- Quote from: Babblelot on September 20, 2013, 08:21:14 PM ---Human progress aside, this planet is gonna burn or freeze. Mars II? Or, perhaps, some people along the, oh, I don't know...pfft, of course Americans will survive! God blessed America! And Americans will start over. The owner class will find themselves some slaves rebuild their fortunes. Feudalism will emerge.

That's just human nature.

If you were wondering, Karma is something that rich people invented to make poor people feel better about themselves, if only for a brief moment.

--- End quote ---
That is one sweet quote right there B!


In general, folks are safer, fatter, live longer and enjoy greater creature comforts than our predecessors.

One could argue that by reducing the effects of natural selection the world will eventually be populated and governed by the likes of Honey Boo Boo.  I don't consider that progress or enlightening. ;-()

--- End quote ---

I know your last point was flippant, but it's interesting that many people would think that natural selection, and therefore some notional idea of progress in terms of the human phenotype is the norm, when the reality is that stasis is far more common in evolutionary terms. Zebra's, lions, spiders, humans, tend to be the same for Millennia rather than being in a state of constant evolutionary flux.

--- End quote ---
:))

propstoart:

--- Quote from: jesse james on September 21, 2013, 09:25:31 AM ---
--- Quote from: Babblelot on September 20, 2013, 08:21:14 PM ---Human progress aside, this planet is gonna burn or freeze. Mars II? Or, perhaps, some people along the, oh, I don't know...pfft, of course Americans will survive! God blessed America! And Americans will start over. The owner class will find themselves some slaves rebuild their fortunes. Feudalism will emerge.

That's just human nature.

If you were wondering, Karma is something that rich people invented to make poor people feel better about themselves, if only for a brief moment.

--- End quote ---

well, you need to be specific about what you mean, and the thread is actually about human progress.
Of course you're right in terms of the earth- 'planet is gonna burn or freeze', the suns luminosity is very slowly increasing and ice ages are a common feature of recent geological history. My own favorite candidate for human extinction is increased vulcanism-geologically it's been a major force in shaping extinctions on earth. Given reality of the Yellowstone Caldera, i'm not sure why you think nature would single out the US for survival, given that geological catastrophes on the scale of a super-volcano would transcend national and class boundaries.
  I take your point about karma, but i don't think religions have been entirely inimical to human progress, but in terms of the role of religion in terms of status and class struggle you have to go with Marx and his  A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right;
  The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

    Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
 
 

--- End quote ---

Deep stuff, JJ. I would like to think there is something good in religion, that there is something to be gained from practicing it, tempering ritual with rationality.
Climate change might claim humanity, but the Earth will definitely survive it. I try to be positive, I try to see the good in people.
Currently, I am busy figuring out how to make a living ;)

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