Author Topic: serving speed?  (Read 4785 times)

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remco

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serving speed?
« on: December 10, 2004, 01:24:34 PM »
I'm just wondering how big the influence is of the racquet on the serving speed.
What would happen if Pete Sampras uses Roddick's racquet or vice versa?

Offline Tennis4you

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serving speed?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2004, 01:34:33 PM »
That is actually a good question, and one I am not totally sure how to answer.  I just read that Sampras toyed with the thought of going to a different racquet during Rolland Garros to get more pace on his shots since the clay slowed them down.  So you knwo he felt he could of got more bang for his buck with a different racquet.  But he said that the he was afraid to try to make the adjustment and that it might of took too long to make the adjustment.

Sampras had the option to use newer racquets, he stuck to the same racquet for a looooooooooong time, still a popular racquet.  I used it once this summer for the first time ever.  HEAVY!

I think if Roddick used that racquet he would definetly not have the pop on his shots he has now.

Maybe someone else here has more insight into this than I do?
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Offline hummer23mm

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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2004, 03:04:09 PM »
SAmpras used a prostaff 85 saint vincent build.  this is a very low power heavy frame.  The weight that the frame has, about 14 ounces customized, and where it is located, much of it on teh head, give it enough power.  The formula for momentum, which is what you want to give to the ball, is P=MV.  This means that the faster the velocity of teh frame is, and the hea vier it is, the greter momentum it will have.  If you gave sampras roddicks racquet, it would be easier to swing his frame, a 11 ounce stock setup, but he would have to swing it much faster in order to achive teh speed he gets with his own frame.  The other way around, roddick would probobly miss**t much more, becasu the head is 15 inches smaller.  If agassi woul hit with sampras frame, he would probly wiff quite a few times.  theres a 22 inch differnece in their frames.  also a 13 million$ difference in career earnings, but tahst beside the point.  on another side note, doccik's vollies wouldnt suck quite as much, because he woul have a heavier more solid frame to use at net.  His serve would be less powerful in my opinion, and i better be right aobut this, because looking to be a physics major. lol.  SAmpras on the other hand, would probly get a bit more juice on his serve, but the control would be taken away, becasue the weight would be less concentrated on the head, where the ball makes contact.  the location where mass must be, is the location where the rotation in either the of teh x y or z axises originates from.  Sampras has teh better stick and thus proves that he is a ebtter player because he can handle that beast.  if anyone here wants to try his frame, buy an oold regular tiwanesse pro staff 85 adn but 5 strips of 1/4th inch lead tape 6 inches long per strip at 3 and 9 oklock.  then try to hit with it.  let me know how much ice you use on your elbow after the first 3 swings.   ..-)
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Offline philip

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serving speed?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2004, 03:14:04 PM »
So..what makes a person hit the ball harder? Height? Muscles? Fast swing? Racket???   :;:-|

Offline Tennis4you

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serving speed?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2004, 03:16:45 PM »
timing, hand/eye coordination, strength, how much of your body you put into the shot.
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Offline philip

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serving speed?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2004, 04:56:27 PM »
Quote from: "Tennis4you"
timing, hand/eye coordination, strength, how much of your body you put into the shot.


Thanks

Offline hummer23mm

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serving speed?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2004, 07:52:32 PM »
a wise person once said.  the racquet is better than you will ever be.  it will never make a mistake, however, it will never hit a winner.  it is up to you to choose the stick that feels right and that you can handle.   unless your nickname is fed, work on your technique to improve your serve.  scott is right, leaning into and jumping is a good idea.  look at some good people serve, up close or clips on tv.   they do super slo mo so you can tell exactly how they atake it back and swing.  use that if your serve isnt effiecent and you arent getting the juice from your motion.  hope that helps.
Mike

Offline DropShotUser

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Re: serving speed?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2008, 07:29:17 AM »
how many mph can the ball go during serve..I was thinking the max is like 200mph
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Offline CTDeuce

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Re: serving speed?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2008, 07:32:52 AM »
Roddick has the record.  I believe it's 154 mph but i'm not totally sure.

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Re: serving speed?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2008, 07:23:09 PM »
I have a feeling people who know better about these things--like thejackal and Dmast--would say something like the string technology has a lot to do with increased serve speed.
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Offline dmastous

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Re: serving speed?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2008, 07:37:24 PM »
I have a feeling people who know better about these things--like thejackal and Dmast--would say something like the string technology has a lot to do with increased serve speed.

I wouldn't suggest that at all. I think the most recent advances in string technology has allowed for more spin, but less inherent power. In fact that's what poly string is designed to do, be less powerful to allow for bigger faster swings to get more spin on groundstrokes.
The more powerful strokes are due to better, more efficient stroke technique, getting the most out of the body.
It is possible that there is more topspin generated in the serves due to this, allowing them to hit the server harder and the topspin will bring it down. Maybe you could make that point.

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Offline pawan89

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Re: serving speed?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2008, 07:39:33 PM »
I doubt string technology actually adds speed right off the bat. or racquet. the newer strings can give more bite to the ball, more spin, hence more weight. also, since you can put more spin and expect ball to dip, you can swing harder and expect it to drop. ultimately, the speed transferred to the ball is entirely due to the mass of the racquet head and the head speed. how you get that speed is totally up to you. wether you want to muscle your way through, wether you want to use good body weight transfer and torso rotation, wether you want to time the hit at where you get max speed and sweet spot, its up to you. string tension plays a role of course.


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Re: serving speed?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2008, 07:41:42 PM »
I have a feeling people who know better about these things--like thejackal and Dmast--would say something like the string technology has a lot to do with increased serve speed.

I wouldn't suggest that at all. I think the most recent advances in string technology has allowed for more spin, but less inherent power. In fact that's what poly string is designed to do, be less powerful to allow for bigger faster swings to get more spin on groundstrokes.
The more powerful strokes are due to better, more efficient stroke technique, getting the most out of the body.
It is possible that there is more topspin generated in the serves due to this, allowing them to hit the server harder and the topspin will bring it down. Maybe you could make that point.

Let me go find thejackal's quote, and see if I misunderstood what he was explaining to me.
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Re: serving speed?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2008, 07:48:14 PM »
Here's what I was thinking of when I made that post. This is from my "Technology (Power)" thread.

racquet technology is a moot point - most ATPers play with frames from the mid90s, while a lot of female players would be better off going to something a bit less powerful (like serena did 2 years ago).  the main thing is the strings.  banning polyester could be a solution
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Offline dmastous

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Re: serving speed?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2008, 07:53:24 PM »
I doubt string technology actually adds speed right off the bat. or racquet. the newer strings can give more bite to the ball, more spin, hence more weight. also, since you can put more spin and expect ball to dip, you can swing harder and expect it to drop. ultimately, the speed transferred to the ball is entirely due to the mass of the racquet head and the head speed. how you get that speed is totally up to you. wether you want to muscle your way through, wether you want to use good body weight transfer and torso rotation, wether you want to time the hit at where you get max speed and sweet spot, its up to you. string tension plays a role of course.

I've seen studies that show this is not true. They have measured spin with various strings and say that no string in-and-of-itself adds spin to the ball.
I know, it's not what I feel when I hit the ball with certain types of strings, but that's what the studies say. :dunno:

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Offline dmastous

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Re: serving speed?
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2008, 07:57:37 PM »
Here's what I was thinking of when I made that post. This is from my "Technology (Power)" thread.

racquet technology is a moot point - most ATPers play with frames from the mid90s, while a lot of female players would be better off going to something a bit less powerful (like serena did 2 years ago).  the main thing is the strings.  banning polyester could be a solution

I missed that thread. But it just ain't true. Poly is not powerful. It's a dead string. If poly should be banned, it should be from club players and beginners. They should be disuaded from using it so they can still use their arm after playing.

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Offline Swish

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Re: serving speed?
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2008, 08:00:21 PM »
I doubt string technology actually adds speed right off the bat. or racquet. the newer strings can give more bite to the ball, more spin, hence more weight. also, since you can put more spin and expect ball to dip, you can swing harder and expect it to drop. ultimately, the speed transferred to the ball is entirely due to the mass of the racquet head and the head speed. how you get that speed is totally up to you. wether you want to muscle your way through, wether you want to use good body weight transfer and torso rotation, wether you want to time the hit at where you get max speed and sweet spot, its up to you. string tension plays a role of course.

I've seen studies that show this is not true. They have measured spin with various strings and say that no string in-and-of-itself adds spin to the ball.
I know, it's not what I feel when I hit the ball with certain types of strings, but that's what the studies say. :dunno:

I've read the same thing, the testing was with machines and the rotation was measured with high speed cameras.
I believe the conclusion was that the deader strings made the player hit the ball with more racquet speed, resulting in more spin( for a low to high racquet swing).

Offline dmastous

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Re: serving speed?
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:25 PM »
I doubt string technology actually adds speed right off the bat. or racquet. the newer strings can give more bite to the ball, more spin, hence more weight. also, since you can put more spin and expect ball to dip, you can swing harder and expect it to drop. ultimately, the speed transferred to the ball is entirely due to the mass of the racquet head and the head speed. how you get that speed is totally up to you. wether you want to muscle your way through, wether you want to use good body weight transfer and torso rotation, wether you want to time the hit at where you get max speed and sweet spot, its up to you. string tension plays a role of course.

I've seen studies that show this is not true. They have measured spin with various strings and say that no string in-and-of-itself adds spin to the ball.
I know, it's not what I feel when I hit the ball with certain types of strings, but that's what the studies say. :dunno:

I've read the same thing, the testing was with machines and the rotation was measured with high speed cameras.
I believe the conclusion was that the deader strings made the player hit the ball with more racquet speed, resulting in more spin( for a low to high racquet swing).


That's the only conclusion that fits the facts.
Deader strings allow for faster racquet head speeds, but still keep the ball from flying.
Faster racquet head speed scraping up on the ball gives more spin than slower, more controlled swings. The added pace can be attributed to racquet technology, big gromments, larger sweetspots (allowing for even more upward motion on the swings), and more forgiving racquets which allow for the harder, more all out swings. Plus, bigger stronger players who's bodies are more like tennis machines than in the past.

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Offline thejackal

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Re: serving speed?
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2008, 10:10:56 PM »
for the original question, roddick said it the best: "big servers would still serve huge with gardening equipment"

the thing is how accurate and consistent their serves would be.  any pro could serve hard with any other pro's racquet.

about the strings, it really does make a difference.  last summer i hit with a local player ranked in the 100s in canada.  normally he blows me out 6-0 or 6-1 in a set, but we played first to 21 points from the baseline.  after the first game where i lost something like 12-21 i switched to a full-poly racquet, and almost won the next two.  i could swing as hard as i wanted to, and even with all the pace getting thrown back and fourth the ball would always drop in.
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