Author Topic: Sportsmanship or not  (Read 10747 times)

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Offline wilsonboy

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Sportsmanship or not
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2006, 12:51:51 PM »
Quote from: "imkonadian88"
like i said, depends on how you look at it.

do you like her for being ready at all times, or do you hate her for being so aloof that she can't even come over to see if tatiana was okay.

i see it two ways. it is quite confusing and amusing at the same time, how people react differently.


Well, I never did like Sharapova because of her attitute to begin w/. But this whole situation has added to that dislike. In a match w/ Andy Roddick( it was either this tournament or Indian Wells) he fell after diving for a shot and as soon as he hit the ground his opponent went up to the net to see if he was okay. Serena at the 2003 french open. She fell at the net, her oppenent was up. Wimbledon womens final 2005: Venus fell and Lindsay came up to the net. It's a common pattern in tennis. Maria has never in the past came up to the net. When Serena took a hard fall against her in the 04 Wimbledon, Sharapova did the same thing that she did in this match. I think that the reason she's getting this effect from the press was in addition to her two breaks. It's all about courtesy.



As far as the "compassion vs competition" goes, there has to be somekind of balance. U can still be focussed if ur opponent goes down. I mean, even if it was just cramps, Sharapova shouldn't have just turned her shoulder and ignored it the way she did. U can say all u want about winning and competition and all that other jazz, but it's just a norm in tennis. A tradition. Tennis is a sport known for it's sportsmanship and Sharapova was making the Arctic look hot. Especially when she called the umpire a b**ch thinking that no one would notice.
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Offline Chris1987

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Sportsmanship or not
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2006, 03:03:07 PM »
I think the 2 issues can be talked about until everyone is blue in the face but firstly Maria is the only 1 who knows whether or not the toilet breaks were needed or whether it was tactical. Also, yes the issue can be discussed but I have to say you must omit the views of the article at the very beginning of the thread, as once you read the first paragraph concerning Golovin unbelievably faking her injuries, you can't take the man serious in any way, shape or form.
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Offline wilsonboy

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« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2006, 03:12:24 PM »
Quote from: "ChrisTaylor1987"
I think the 2 issues can be talked about until everyone is blue in the face but firstly Maria is the only 1 who knows whether or not the toilet breaks were needed or whether it was tactical. Also, yes the issue can be discussed but I have to say you must omit the views of the article at the very beginning of the thread, as once you read the first paragraph concerning Golovin unbelievably faking her injuries, you can't take the man serious in any way, shape or form.


That's not what this is about.

Anyways, Sharapova said in some article (I wish I could find it now) that she indeed had the slight inkling to go to the bathroom be4 that service game, but she waited until after. The fact is that she did it at a very crucial time in the match. Whether it was premeditated or not, it's still something to take into account during the match. If anyone else did it, there would have been very little difference in the reaction of the crowd. Like a said be4. It's not the individual actions she took that upset the crowd. It was all those things compiled as one. Sharapova is liked by many and hated by many (probably more hated now) but u have to understand the situation from their/my point of view.
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Offline Chris1987

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Sportsmanship or not
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2006, 03:21:57 PM »
For sure this discussion can be argued very strongly from both points of view but the toilet break issue seems to be coming more and more into the game(which by the way I hate, especially when a player goes off after being on court 30 minutes) If it was tactical then it wasn't the right thing to do for the game but maybe it was right for Maria, if it wasn't tactical then Maria deserves some slack, we will never know the full extent of Maria's feelings. A lot of the crowd didn't like it and a lot of people away from the stadium but all Maria fans will continuously defend her actions and people who don't like Maria or aren't too bothered about her will say, it was tactical and was a bad thing to do. You know where I have to sit on this one, unless I had sufficient evidence to say that it was done to stop the rhythm of the match, which we will never get.
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Offline wilsonboy

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« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2006, 03:31:20 PM »
well, if it's not the bathroom break, then the shirt change was definitely crossing the boarders b/c that was the second attemp at throwing off the rythm. I'm going to say it once more again, it was all the actions compiled as one that caused the reaction of the crowd. Of course ur not gonna back down from ur stance even though u can't really defend Maria sufficiently. ur kinda just saying "she didn't mean it, she didn't mean it, it's not her fault!" whereas others (including myself) are providing support for our arguements. If u wish to even sway any of our opinions, ur gonna have to draw some support like we all have been. Otherwise, it's all out for Maria. case closed.
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Offline Chris1987

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« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2006, 03:43:20 PM »
Quote from: "wilsonboy"
well, if it's not the bathroom break, then the shirt change was definitely crossing the boarders b/c that was the second attemp at throwing off the rythm. I'm going to say it once more again, it was all the actions compiled as one that caused the reaction of the crowd. Of course ur not gonna back down from ur stance even though u can't really defend Maria sufficiently. ur kinda just saying "she didn't mean it, she didn't mean it, it's not her fault!" whereas others (including myself) are providing support for our arguements. If u wish to even sway any of our opinions, ur gonna have to draw some support like we all have been. Otherwise, it's all out for Maria. case closed.


Well where is you sufficient evidence to say Maria did the break(s) tactically, as all we have to go by are Maria's views on the situation, commentators and experts who don't know what Maria was thinking and a crowd that was a little against Maria all week and then they were unhappy at what THEY saw as breaks to affect the rhythm. I will say it again but in all truth there can be as many opinions on the situation as possible but Maria is the only one who knows if she needed the breaks or not and Maria is the only one who knows her reasons for staying on her baseline when Golovin was injured.
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Offline wilsonboy

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« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2006, 03:50:36 PM »
Quote from: "ChrisTaylor1987"
Quote from: "wilsonboy"
well, if it's not the bathroom break, then the shirt change was definitely crossing the boarders b/c that was the second attemp at throwing off the rythm. I'm going to say it once more again, it was all the actions compiled as one that caused the reaction of the crowd. Of course ur not gonna back down from ur stance even though u can't really defend Maria sufficiently. ur kinda just saying "she didn't mean it, she didn't mean it, it's not her fault!" whereas others (including myself) are providing support for our arguements. If u wish to even sway any of our opinions, ur gonna have to draw some support like we all have been. Otherwise, it's all out for Maria. case closed.


Well where is you sufficient evidence to say Maria did the break(s) tactically, as all we have to go by are Maria's views on the situation, commentators and experts who don't know what Maria was thinking and a crowd that was a little against Maria all week and then they were unhappy at what THEY saw as breaks to affect the rhythm. I will say it again but in all truth there can be as many opinions on the situation as possible but Maria is the only one who knows if she needed the breaks or not and Maria is the only one who knows her reasons for staying on her baseline when Golovin was injured.


That's not the case I'm trying to push forward.

The topic is titled 'Sportsmanship or not'. Sharapova had bad sportsmanship so crall back to the top of the page and read my drawn support. It doesn't matter what reasons she had fro staying back there; (and she gave an "explanation" of why she stayed back there btw so we DO in fact know her excuses) the fact is, she stayed back there. And, in the eyes of tennis fans, that's bad sportsmanship.
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Offline Chris1987

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Sportsmanship or not
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2006, 03:57:13 PM »
Quote from: "wilsonboy"
Quote from: "ChrisTaylor1987"
Quote from: "wilsonboy"
well, if it's not the bathroom break, then the shirt change was definitely crossing the boarders b/c that was the second attemp at throwing off the rythm. I'm going to say it once more again, it was all the actions compiled as one that caused the reaction of the crowd. Of course ur not gonna back down from ur stance even though u can't really defend Maria sufficiently. ur kinda just saying "she didn't mean it, she didn't mean it, it's not her fault!" whereas others (including myself) are providing support for our arguements. If u wish to even sway any of our opinions, ur gonna have to draw some support like we all have been. Otherwise, it's all out for Maria. case closed.


Well where is you sufficient evidence to say Maria did the break(s) tactically, as all we have to go by are Maria's views on the situation, commentators and experts who don't know what Maria was thinking and a crowd that was a little against Maria all week and then they were unhappy at what THEY saw as breaks to affect the rhythm. I will say it again but in all truth there can be as many opinions on the situation as possible but Maria is the only one who knows if she needed the breaks or not and Maria is the only one who knows her reasons for staying on her baseline when Golovin was injured.


That's not the case I'm trying to push forward.

The topic is titled 'Sportsmanship or not'. Sharapova had bad sportsmanship so crall back to the top of the page and read my drawn support. It doesn't matter what reasons she had fro staying back there; (and she gave an "explanation" of why she stayed back there btw so we DO in fact know her excuses) the fact is, she stayed back there. And, in the eyes of tennis fans, that's bad sportsmanship.


But her reasons were staying totally focused and ready to continue. Maria didn't want to give anything away at that stage after such a tough battle and wanted to stay in the zone incase Golovin was fine to continue. When on court you get on with the match, sportsmanship shouldn't be a great issue at that stage of a match, there is plenty of time for that off court, just like Maria showed and then afterwards behind closed doors, so not for the good of the crowd she went to see Golovin and stated if she wanted anything just to ask. When on court it is winning that matters and the sportsmanship is only 2nd to that, so it depends on whether you are all for going upto your opponent if they fall or whether you think let the specialists sort it out and I can see them afterwards.
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Offline wilsonboy

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« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2006, 04:03:58 PM »
I think that Mary Carillo (dispite my distatse towards her) summed it up pretty well...

Quote
"What makes Maria so tough is the way she plays, the way she competes," the longtime broadcaster Mary Carillo said. "The best part about Maria is her focus. But not to be reacting when somebody's down on the ground, not to even move from the back of the baseline, somehow you've got to shift out of that mode. That's when her focus can look very unattractive."

Carillo added: "It's not enough to watch greatness. You have to want to connect to it."

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Offline Chris1987

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« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2006, 04:08:26 PM »
Well according to most people on here, you being one of them, she usually talks total rubbish and is very annoying so that view isn't too important but yes maybe people will look at that type of focus as unattractive, others will look at it as vital to her game and something she was right to do in the semi's.
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Offline wilsonboy

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« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2006, 04:10:55 PM »
Quote from: "ChrisTaylor1987"
Well according to most people on here, you being one of them, she usually talks total rubbish and is very annoying so that view isn't too important but yes maybe people will look at that type of focus as unattractive, others will look at it as vital to her game and something she was right to do in the semi's.


Actually, I do recall some of the "people" u refer to saying that Carillo does say some smart and analytical things dispite her rolling tounge.
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Offline imkonadian88

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« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2006, 07:23:25 PM »
but a question: when you're so focused, do you have the urge to go to the bathroom? my tennis coach does ten hours of lessons a day without going to the washroom. I mean, that's just how he's so focused at his lessons.
move it.

Offline wilsonboy

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« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2006, 07:26:20 PM »
Quote from: "imkonadian88"
but a question: when you're so focused, do you have the urge to go to the bathroom? my tennis coach does ten hours of lessons a day without going to the washroom. I mean, that's just how he's so focused at his lessons.


Oh yeah!! good point. So Chris...either Sharapova wasn't as focussed as she claimed, or she just faked a bathroom break.lol this is deep.
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Offline imkonadian88

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« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2006, 07:28:18 PM »
man i don't know what to think about this anymore.
move it.

Offline shtexas

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« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2006, 08:33:55 PM »
Speaking as a Maria fan, I think it would have been nice if she showed some concern for her opponent. I think Maria could have at least gone to the net and expressed some concern. Then, she could go back and warm up. I don't think a moment of compassion would break a player's concentration. But, I don't think this is the crime of the century. In some ways it is actually better than feigning concern, which many do.

It was an error in judgment. It happens with everyone. Let's see if she learns from it. I am still a fan.

As far as the bathroom breaks - simple - change the rule. The rules allow a lot of leeway and the umpire allowed her to go. I once saw Kournikova request a bathroom break and it was denied by the umpire because Anna was trying to stall because it was getting dark, and maybe she could get off the court and regroup overnight. Here, the umpire should have put her foot down, and if she can't, then the rule needs to be changed. I mean, think of Pierce in the USO semifinal. Why do they have a rule that allowed her to take back-to-back injury time-outs? Change the rule.

There is so much at stake now, players are going to look for every advantage if they are allowed. This is a sport, not a garden party. All champions have a little ruthlessness in them. This is what makes them champions. Some are just smarter about keeping up appearances.

Offline shtexas

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« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2006, 08:45:41 PM »
Boy, I just re-read my post and that sounded very cynical.

Offline suzy4hand

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« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2006, 09:51:55 PM »
I didn't see anything wrong with Sharapova's actions.  She had to go to the bathroom, and her bathroom breaks had no effect on Golovin... Golovin won the game after Sharapova took the bathroom break.  For all we know, Sharapova could've felt sick, or possibly be receiving her "monthly friend."

And as for after Golovin got hurt, Sharapova was not being rude to try and keep her body warm.  Golovin was clearly going to try and continue, and if I were Sharapova, I would've tried to stay warm.  If it was obvious that Golovin was going to be unable to continue, or if Sharapova had inflicted the injury, that would be one thing.  But she decided to keep going, and Sharapova was not being rude to not go over to Golovin and pity her.  Sharapova was more than gracious after the match, as she left the stadium behind Golovin.  She is a great sport and behaved professionally.

Offline NJtennis11

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« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2006, 09:55:38 PM »
Yeah, Sharapova's bathroom's break didn't affect Golovin, but what if it did.  Then would it be wrong, her actions were very unsportsmanlike and whether it affected Golovin or not has no affect on whether or not the actions were unsportsmanlike

Offline suzy4hand

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« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2006, 10:37:37 PM »
if a bathroom break that lasts no longer than the espn2 commercial break had caused Golovin to lose her service game, then she would need to go see a sport psychologist and gain a little mental toughness.

Offline Marty-Dom

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« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2006, 11:33:25 PM »
That first bathroom break was taken clearly to cool off Golovin before her service game. It's exactly for that reason against the rules to request it before your opponent serves.
The umpire clearly said so. She said, you can go to the bathroom only before your own service game, but Maria (in a panic mode) insisted that she could not hold.
So, thank God for Maria that Golovin held serve. If she lost the match right then and there, the commentaries would be much more damming for Maria.
The fact that she met with Yuri during that break is yet another issue. She went back for the shirt change to compose herself and possibly get some more coaching.
All in all, yes hard competitors are appreciated and valued, but win-at-any-cost competitors are quickly turned into villains. Just see how fans perception of JHH has changed after similar incidents (not to mentin the famous hand incident). This will not go totally unnoticed with the sponsors.