Author Topic: Early predicted slam winners, runner ups, and semifinalists.  (Read 7636 times)

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Offline Molik

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Early predicted slam winners, runner ups, and semifinalists.
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2005, 06:32:43 AM »
Hey don't leave my Alicia out :))
She can play on clay too!!!
Myskina was lucky to win the French Open because she almost lost to Molik but narrowly escaped!!
This year Alicia will be looking to do great at the French :)

Offline RainerShuttle

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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2005, 06:37:15 AM »
I believe Myskina is a very over-rated player. At her best she's solid, at her worst she's abysmal and can barely hit the ball in court.

Offline BitterBlueBong

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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2005, 08:22:12 AM »
Quote from: "Tennis4you"
I actually forget her preformance last year.  I assume she did well?


I believe she had a 19-match winning streak  -- picked up two titles (J & S Cup, Family Circle Cup) and defaulted in the finals of a third (sprained her ankle in the semis of either Berlin or Rome). So really, until she played that abysmal match against Myskina in the quarters of the French, she was unbeaten on clay last year.

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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2005, 10:57:34 AM »
Quote from: "BitterBlueBong"
Quote
Arforce, if you laugh at the thought of Henin winning the French, I laugh twice as hard on Venus being a threat to win the French.


Are we forgetting Venus' performance on clay last year?


      Yes beating up on the aging Conchita Martinez's and Zuluaga's of this world is going to get you far.

Offline gm3106

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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2005, 12:14:59 PM »
I wouldn't give Venus a chance at any slam these days, especially the FO, which gave her headaches even at the best of times.

Offline BitterBlueBong

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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2005, 04:20:37 PM »
:whistle:

Funny that Venus went further at Roland Garros than she did at the other grand slams last year. And even funnier that she put together such a winning streak on her worst surface during her worst year. As for who she played, I wouldn't exactly call Zuluaga (or Sprem or Kuznetsova) pushovers, especially on clay. No one is saying Venus is going to win the French -- she hasn't proven that she has the ability to do that -- but I wouldn't be surprised if she fared well on the clay and/or at the French this year.

Offline Arcforce

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« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2005, 06:59:55 PM »
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Thank you -- Bong. I couldn't have said it better.

Like Bong said -- no one is saying she's in contention for every title this year but I wouldn't count her out either. Following her sister's success and such a crappy year -- I can only imagine Venus being even hungrier. And as a fan of Venus period , African-American athlete's diverse contribution to a racially dominated sport and merely the excitement she adds to the game -- I'm praying and hoping Venus gets back on top.

Offline kittens25

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« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2005, 10:26:50 AM »
Venus did go the furthest at the French of all her slams last year but that was only a quarterfinal, where she was wiped out by an unspectacular Myskina.   Nobody has said anything to indicate why I am wrong to think Henin and Clijsters, if they return in their former form, will have better chances than Venus at the French, "especially" Henin-Hardenne other than being a fan of Venus, which I am not.   Also it was her best slam, in part since she had a high seeding giving her a better draw.   At Wimbledon she also had a high seeding and lost early, but at the U.S open and Australian she was rightfully awarded the lower seeding she deserved and was faced with a tougher draw, thus an earlier loss.

Offline Chris1987

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« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2005, 02:20:08 PM »
I don't see how most of you can judge the way that Maria (Sharapova) has performed on clay.
   I mean come on she is only 17 years of age and obviously is still very much developing. Yes I know Maria enjoy's playing on the faster surfaces but she certainly has the talent and desire to take on the very best on any surface including clay. We have not saw Maria on clay a great deal yet so just leave your judgements to one side for the time being and I feel she may just prove you all wrong.
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Offline Tennis4you

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« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2005, 03:03:52 PM »
At the same time she is 17 and already won Wimbledon, and I believe she has played more clay than grass tournaments?  So I think it would be safe to say her hard court and grass skillz exceed that of her clay skills.  PLus her game doesn't suit clay as well as the other surfaces.  But I think clay becomes less speciailzed amung the women.
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Offline kittens25

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« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2005, 03:10:15 PM »
I agree clay is less specialized among the women.   There simply very few great clay court specialists anymore, that is the main reason, not that none of the top women have any vurnerabilities on the surface, they do.
The small elite group on top are just so superior to the others, surface does not matter as much.   On a surface they are very uncomfortable on, they are still strong enough, and superior enough to lead the way.

Offline Chris1987

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« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2005, 03:14:06 PM »
yeah i agree maria's game is more specialized to grass and hard courts. however when she has grew up not playing much clay court tennis when she was younger whereas she did play on hard and grass a lot means it will take time to ajust to the clay surface. therefore in a year or 2 she may surprise a few people as her game will evolve on clay the more matches she plays. many pkayers take time to get use to the movement that is needed to be a good player on clay but that will come as maria becomes more mature on the surface.
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Offline BitterBlueBong

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« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2005, 03:15:57 PM »
Quote from: "kittens25"
Nobody has said anything to indicate why I am wrong to think Henin and Clijsters, if they return in their former form, will have better chances than Venus at the French


Actually, you haven't said anything to indicate Justine is that great. Earlier, I said "she really hasn't won that many titles on clay, and really hasn't done anything to make her eminent from the rest of the pack on clay." So far I'm counting 3 clay titles in 03, and 1 in 02. That's a total of 4 clay court titles. Am I missing something spectacular that she did? And while you talk about Justine and Kim "returning in their former form," Venus in her "former form" trumps everyone else but Serena, so that's a moot argument.

*ETA: So, out of curiosity, do you think Justine has a better chance than Serena?

Offline RainerShuttle

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« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2005, 03:18:20 PM »
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Am I missing something spectacular that she did?


Small matter of the French Open title, nothing spectacular though  :)~

Offline BitterBlueBong

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« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2005, 03:27:49 PM »
I think the French Open goes without saying, otherwise we wouldn't even be having this conversation.  :)~

Offline Tennis4you

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« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2005, 03:49:46 PM »
FO - Serena vs Henin...  Wow, I would root for Serena 110%, but I think it would be a close match if they were both on.  Grass however, well, that's a joke, Serena cccccrrrrrrrrrruuuuuuuuuuussssssshhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeddddddddd her at the Wimbledon after JHH cheated her at the FO.  

Justine is painfully consistant and has great depth and nice topspin.  Sernea has more power but not nearly the consistancy that JHH has.  So at the FO, I would almost give JHH the edge if they were both on.  But I would hope that I am dead wrong.

In the end though 50/50...  But that is my opinion.  I think it will take JHH a long time to get back to where she was with confidence and her fitness.
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Offline BitterBlueBong

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« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2005, 04:39:17 PM »
Well, considering that she barely scraped by Serena at the French during her peak (and we won't even get into the controversy), I think they're about equal. Justine has won the past couple meeting on clay, so there's one advantage -- but coming off an injury (and Serena already winning the Australian) it would be tough.

Offline kittens25

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« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2005, 05:31:03 PM »
[/quote]Actually, you haven't said anything to indicate Justine is that great. Earlier, I said "she really hasn't won that many titles on clay, and really hasn't done anything to make her eminent from the rest of the pack on clay." So far I'm counting 3 clay titles in 03, and 1 in 02. That's a total of 4 clay court titles. Am I missing something spectacular that she did? And while you talk about Justine and Kim "returning in their former form," Venus in her "former form" trumps everyone else but Serena, so that's a moot argument.

*ETA: So, out of curiosity, do you think Justine has a better chance than Serena?[/quote]

       Excuse me but arent you the one that is questioning the validity of my opinions?   I do not feel I have to prove anything here.  You have said nothing to make feel my beliefs are not fully justified.

       Henin won 4 clay court titles and lost a 5th close final to Serena, in only a two year span 2002-2003.   That is her most recent span of full time tennis on clay, considering she played only one tournament on clay last year.  In her entire career, which is obviously shorter than Venus's she has a French title and a French semifinal.   Venus in a longer career has once been as far as the semis at the French, a single final round appearance.   Comparing the number of career titles on clay is meaningless since Venus has been near the top of the sport twice as long as Henin(top ten from 98-2004, Henin top ten from mid 2001-2004).    
The people Henin beat in her run on clay in 2003, where infinitely superior to the people Venus beat in her pre-French run last year where almost all the top players where missing.

       Venus in her former form trumping enyone but Serena on clay?   I totally disagree.   She made one French Open final and did not beat anybody of note to get there.   Clijsters won her only meeting with Venus on clay in 3 sets when Venus was at her peak and Clijsters was not close to the player she was in 2003-early 2004.  Henin clobbered Venus in one meeting on clay, and choked away a huge lead in another.   That again was when Venus was at her peak and Henin was not close to player she was in 2003-early 2004.   Even Clijsters has reached two French Open finals, already surpassing Venus's at the French where she has a mere one final appearance, and again at a younger age.

       Anyway I have seen them both play on clay and Henin in reasonable health is simply better on it.

Offline kittens25

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« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2005, 05:35:02 PM »
As for Serena, I think she and Henin would have a very close match if they played on clay, and both were in top form.   Both can play better than they did in their bizarre 2003 French semifinal.   I have to admit I loved watching it though despite the erratic tennis.

Offline BitterBlueBong

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« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2005, 08:17:07 PM »
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Comparing the number of career titles on clay is meaningless since Venus has been near the top of the sport twice as long as Henin(top ten from 98-2004, Henin top ten from mid 2001-2004).


Who was comparing? I never said anything about Venus' career titles on clay. But here are some statistics.

On the clay court career stats (having played at least 25 tournaments), here's where they are:

10. Justine Henin-Hardenne (100-22, .820)
11. Martina Hingis (94-21, .817)
12. Venus Williams (75-17, .815)

So, overall, they are separated by .005 in their careers on clay court. I imagine if Venus actually played more warmups for the French, it'd be about the same. And to think that it's her "weakest" surface and Justine's "strongest."

Quote
The people Henin beat in her run on clay in 2003, where infinitely superior to the people Venus beat in her pre-French run last year where almost all the top players where missing.


Well that's great, but consider that in the past three years, they've both won 13 matches at the French (Justine 1r, W, 2r and Venus QF, 4r, F).  In addition, Justine has crashed and burned in two out of the past 3 French Opens. That pretty much covers both of their peaks (although if you want to get down to it, Justine's peak was picking up Serena's scraps but that's another story).  Clijsters doesn't even warrant discussion.

And maybe I need to make this clearer: no one is saying Venus will win the French. No one is saying Justine is not an excellent clay court player. My point is that a) Venus cannot be ruled out in spite of what everyone believes about her clay court record and b) Justine is not the be-all, end-all of clay court tennis.