Author Topic: Clay Monster's Limitations  (Read 397855 times)

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Offline sofico

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« Reply #160 on: August 18, 2007, 06:14:54 PM »
Quote from: "dmastous"
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote from: "dmastous"
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote from: "jeffrx"
I see Nadal having a nice career.  His game is certainly taxing, but the guy has a great physicial frame to sustain all the abuse.  Even with the so-called bad knee, he chases down balls that would ordinarily be winners.

Nadal is very good for tennis.  Kids, especially, seem to like him alot.  I guess it's just the energy he brings.  Plus, his game is based on good point construction and rallying, which is missing from alot of today's players.


I read in an article that his fitness can be the new prototype for tennis ...


This is news? Lendl changed the game about 25 years ago. There were fit players before him, but they were fit because they wanted to be fit. Lendl made himself fit because he wanted to play better and everyone else who was payed to play followed suit. Navritalova did the same thing for the women's side a few years later. Now if you aren't fit, you aren't playing on the tour.
Everytime I go see a pro tournament, I am astounded at how incredibly fit the players are. They are all lean mean tennis playing machines. The only one who shows any kind of a gut is Nalbandian and his recent results are showing that this isn't acceptable.


this is what I read
http://www.tennis.com/features/hotshots/hotshots.aspx?id=64322


I don't see where it says he doesn't lift weights. You don't get cut like that with out lifting.


 ;;)  ;;)  ;;) ...When did I write that he doesn't lift weights? :|  :|  :|  :|

Offline dmastous

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« Reply #161 on: August 18, 2007, 06:20:10 PM »
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote from: "dmastous"
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote from: "dmastous"
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote from: "jeffrx"
I see Nadal having a nice career.  His game is certainly taxing, but the guy has a great physicial frame to sustain all the abuse.  Even with the so-called bad knee, he chases down balls that would ordinarily be winners.

Nadal is very good for tennis.  Kids, especially, seem to like him alot.  I guess it's just the energy he brings.  Plus, his game is based on good point construction and rallying, which is missing from alot of today's players.


I read in an article that his fitness can be the new prototype for tennis ...


This is news? Lendl changed the game about 25 years ago. There were fit players before him, but they were fit because they wanted to be fit. Lendl made himself fit because he wanted to play better and everyone else who was payed to play followed suit. Navritalova did the same thing for the women's side a few years later. Now if you aren't fit, you aren't playing on the tour.
Everytime I go see a pro tournament, I am astounded at how incredibly fit the players are. They are all lean mean tennis playing machines. The only one who shows any kind of a gut is Nalbandian and his recent results are showing that this isn't acceptable.


this is what I read
http://www.tennis.com/features/hotshots/hotshots.aspx?id=64322


I don't see where it says he doesn't lift weights. You don't get cut like that with out lifting.


 ;;)  ;;)  ;;) ...When did I write that he doesn't lift weights? :|  :|  :|  :|


I'm confusing your post with Hercules.

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Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #162 on: August 18, 2007, 07:07:17 PM »
Quote from: "dmastous"
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote from: "dmastous"
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote from: "dmastous"
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote from: "jeffrx"
I see Nadal having a nice career.  His game is certainly taxing, but the guy has a great physicial frame to sustain all the abuse.  Even with the so-called bad knee, he chases down balls that would ordinarily be winners.

Nadal is very good for tennis.  Kids, especially, seem to like him alot.  I guess it's just the energy he brings.  Plus, his game is based on good point construction and rallying, which is missing from alot of today's players.


I read in an article that his fitness can be the new prototype for tennis ...


This is news? Lendl changed the game about 25 years ago. There were fit players before him, but they were fit because they wanted to be fit. Lendl made himself fit because he wanted to play better and everyone else who was payed to play followed suit. Navritalova did the same thing for the women's side a few years later. Now if you aren't fit, you aren't playing on the tour.
Everytime I go see a pro tournament, I am astounded at how incredibly fit the players are. They are all lean mean tennis playing machines. The only one who shows any kind of a gut is Nalbandian and his recent results are showing that this isn't acceptable.


this is what I read
http://www.tennis.com/features/hotshots/hotshots.aspx?id=64322


I don't see where it says he doesn't lift weights. You don't get cut like that with out lifting.


 ;;)  ;;)  ;;) ...When did I write that he doesn't lift weights? :|  :|  :|  :|


I'm confusing your post with Hercules.


johnny mac has personally asked the clay monster if he lifts weights. according to johhny mac, he does not lift weights. that said, he needs to be lighter and more fit.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #163 on: August 20, 2007, 08:15:28 PM »
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote from: "jeffrx"
I see Nadal having a nice career.  His game is certainly taxing, but the guy has a great physicial frame to sustain all the abuse.  Even with the so-called bad knee, he chases down balls that would ordinarily be winners.

Nadal is very good for tennis.  Kids, especially, seem to like him alot.  I guess it's just the energy he brings.  Plus, his game is based on good point construction and rallying, which is missing from alot of today's players.


I read in an article that his fitness can be the new prototype for tennis ...


can you provide a brief summary/synopsis of that article. i am one of those who believes that he could be a lot fitter given his style of play/game.

Offline Dallas

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clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #164 on: August 20, 2007, 08:26:56 PM »
Quote from: "hercules"
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote from: "jeffrx"
I see Nadal having a nice career.  His game is certainly taxing, but the guy has a great physicial frame to sustain all the abuse.  Even with the so-called bad knee, he chases down balls that would ordinarily be winners.

Nadal is very good for tennis.  Kids, especially, seem to like him alot.  I guess it's just the energy he brings.  Plus, his game is based on good point construction and rallying, which is missing from alot of today's players.


I read in an article that his fitness can be the new prototype for tennis ...


can you provide a brief summary/synopsis of that article. i am one of those who believes that he could be a lot fitter given his style of play/game.
[/b]

I agree.  I mean just because his body looks fit doesn't mean he's in the best shape. With his style, you're right...he can get 'fitter'.... He's good now, but he's going to have to stay in shape with the kind of game he plays.

Offline sofico

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« Reply #165 on: August 20, 2007, 08:33:08 PM »
Hercules, the article's here...it's very short

http://www.tennis.com/features/hotshots/hotshots.aspx?id=64322

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #166 on: August 20, 2007, 09:05:42 PM »
Quote from: "sofico"
Hercules, the article's here...it's very short

http://www.tennis.com/features/hotshots/hotshots.aspx?id=64322


goo article. thanks sofico.

i still dont think he is fit enough. could be about 8 pounds lighter. once lendl dropped to 175 pounds, he started to play his best tennis. he was an inch taller that the clay monster. he was 6 foot 2.

i understand that clay monster is a ice cream nut and a cake nut. fitness is the nest frontier in tennis once again and to be the very best, one has to be the fittest. we all say what happened to djokovic who said that he was just too tired after a straight sets demolition at the hands of carlos moya in cincy.

same with the clay monster. he has to becoe more fit and play a little lighter. he is 6 foot 1 and plays at about 190 pounds. that is just too much bulk for that style of play.

Offline dmastous

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« Reply #167 on: August 20, 2007, 09:36:52 PM »
Quote from: "hercules"
. fitness is the nest frontier in tennis once again and to be the very best, one has to be the fittest.


You've made this point before, and I agree that a players level of fitness can help him or her win matches. But my question is, how can players be more aware of fitness as a weapon than they already are?
I just got back from watch player after player go through warm ups in Cincinati, and every single one of them was a physical specimen! Is there some form of fitness that hasn't been thought of that will take it to a new level (that's legal)? There are players who don't take it seriously enough, Nalbandian, Malisse to name a couple, but 99% take it very seriously.
What's the "next frontier" in fitness?

Is a tree as a rocking horse
An ambition fulfilled
And is the sawdust jealous?
I worry about these things .

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Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #168 on: August 20, 2007, 09:57:19 PM »
Quote from: "dmastous"
Quote from: "hercules"
. fitness is the nest frontier in tennis once again and to be the very best, one has to be the fittest.


You've made this point before, and I agree that a players level of fitness can help him or her win matches. But my question is, how can players be more aware of fitness as a weapon than they already are?
I just got back from watch player after player go through warm ups in Cincinati, and every single one of them was a physical specimen! Is there some form of fitness that hasn't been thought of that will take it to a new level (that's legal)? There are players who don't take it seriously enough, Nalbandian, Malisse to name a couple, but 99% take it very seriously.
What's the "next frontier" in fitness?


in the future, players will have all the shots. they will be able solid off both wings and have a rocket serves and volleys. quantum leaps in training methods and sports medicine and cutting edge use of optimal biomechanics will assure most of the top players have all the shots. at that point, it will just boil down to who can outlast who on the court. fitness is many things to many players and it depends on the sport you play. for an endurance athlete like a marathon runner, its damn near all about v02max or the maximal oxygen uptake. for tennis player vo2max is important but so is flexibility and physical strength. look at borg. in many ways, he was the perfect athlete tennis. broad shoulders and massive upper body strength to be able to hit all day and all night if he needed to and incredible vo2max to be able to run all day.

nadal was spent in rome and nearly dead in hamburg but played on. he also plays at 190 pounds. he has the upper body strength but could use greater improvement in v02max because of his style of play. it took him nearly 4 hours to put away davydenko in rome in a best of 3 sets foremat. he alos needs to steal a page from roger`s book: flexibility. roger gets at least one massage a day and stretches twice a day.

in any case, i think appearances can be deceiving. many of these tennis players could be more fit.

Offline kickserve

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« Reply #169 on: August 21, 2007, 02:36:32 AM »
Rafa is supremely fit in the way that a world-class distance runner is supremely fit: when he's OK, he can run forever (hardly ever loses a match due to tiredness: Hamburg this year is possiby the only one) but he's very prone to injury. I think he probably is carrying excess weight around, and he could do with shedding some of it, but to call him unfit would be harsh - there's a difference between unfit and injury-prone.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #170 on: August 21, 2007, 10:41:55 AM »
Quote from: "kickserve"
Rafa is supremely fit in the way that a world-class distance runner is supremely fit: when he's OK, he can run forever (hardly ever loses a match due to tiredness: Hamburg this year is possiby the only one) but he's very prone to injury. I think he probably is carrying excess weight around, and he could do with shedding some of it, but to call him unfit would be harsh - there's a difference between unfit and injury-prone.


i diagree. given his style of play, he needs to be more fit and those injuries will disappear. his particular brand inuries are to a considrable extent a function of the fact that he does get tired and spent. i have heard him and his camp make numerous statements to that effect.

playing a little lighter like at 180 as opposed 190 would help his cause a great deal since his game is built on running all day. but that alone wont do it. he has to jack up the vo2max another step. so more endurance and more flexibility would do wonders for his game.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #171 on: August 22, 2007, 11:39:06 PM »
looks like the clay monster got the shaft again in that draw. sure hope he is working on his serve and his return of serve so he can at least make a little run to the quarters and then get the hell out. he doesnt need to destroy that knee.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #172 on: August 22, 2007, 11:39:17 PM »
looks like the clay monster got the shaft again in that draw. sure hope he is working on his serve and his return of serve so he can at least make a little run to the quarters and then get the hell out. he doesnt need to destroy that knee.

Offline Messagesent

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« Reply #173 on: August 24, 2007, 10:17:44 AM »
I've never felt that Nadal is fit like an endurance runner.

I think he's easily one of the best movers out there, but I've seen a lot of matches where he looks tired.  When he's winning, those points won after hard fought grinds pump him up.

On bad days he looks tired.

Wimbledon 2006 the announcers mentioned in the fourth set that he looked worn out.  

I'm the same way with my own tennis - if I'm playing well, I can run all day.  If I'm not, it's harder to fight.

Offline mogdesai

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« Reply #174 on: August 24, 2007, 11:20:05 AM »
Quote from: "Messagesent"
I've never felt that Nadal is fit like an endurance runner.

I think he's easily one of the best movers out there, but I've seen a lot of matches where he looks tired.  When he's winning, those points won after hard fought grinds pump him up.

On bad days he looks tired.

Wimbledon 2006 the announcers mentioned in the fourth set that he looked worn out.  

I'm the same way with my own tennis - if I'm playing well, I can run all day.  If I'm not, it's harder to fight.


You are right that Nadal is the best mover. I think he moves so well that he can run down every ball and can force any opponents to make one more shot. I think he is strong but I don't think he is really well fit. Fittness is different than strenghth. Because he is well built, he should be careful about injuries. Nadal is mentally very strong and plays every ball as a match point.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #175 on: August 25, 2007, 01:50:25 AM »
Quote from: "mogdesai"
Quote from: "Messagesent"
I've never felt that Nadal is fit like an endurance runner.

I think he's easily one of the best movers out there, but I've seen a lot of matches where he looks tired.  When he's winning, those points won after hard fought grinds pump him up.

On bad days he looks tired.

Wimbledon 2006 the announcers mentioned in the fourth set that he looked worn out.  

I'm the same way with my own tennis - if I'm playing well, I can run all day.  If I'm not, it's harder to fight.


You are right that Nadal is the best mover. I think he moves so well that he can run down every ball and can force any opponents to make one more shot. I think he is strong but I don't think he is really well fit. Fittness is different than strenghth. Because he is well built, he should be careful about injuries. Nadal is mentally very strong and plays every ball as a match point.


johnny mac said the same thing in rome after seeing him up close. he said the clay monster looked spent and totally worn out. a good role model of fitness for the clay monster would be borg. he needs to be more sleek. knocking off 8-10 pounds and taking his fitness level a little higher will allow to be more efficient and an even better mover than he is already since its obvious his game calls for him to run all day and stay out there all day.

and he needs to steal a page for roger`s book. roger stretches twice a day and gets at least one massage a day. roger is the smartest in the game when it comes to minimizing injuries and staying healthy. roger realized he was a little worn out after the roland garros campaign and wasted no time in pulling out of halle tournament to make he sure he didnt risk an injury.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #176 on: August 25, 2007, 06:34:22 PM »
anybody has any ideas as to what must the clay monster do to get a u.s. open title? and finally, can he ever win this title?

i hear roger just said in an interview that if he(roger) doesnt win it, he expects nadal to win it.

is that possible?

Offline Alison2006

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« Reply #177 on: August 25, 2007, 09:25:05 PM »
Quote from: "hercules"
anybody has any ideas as to what must the clay monster do to get a u.s. open title? and finally, can he ever win this title?

i hear roger just said in an interview that if he(roger) doesnt win it, he expects nadal to win it.

is that possible?


Rafa needs to have a better 1st Serve (and better 2nd Serve) As I have mentioned before (but my views are not taken well by many because I don't support Rog, but I am cool with that ) Got over that long ago  ..-)

Perhaps he should have a new coach (Which I have mentioned before.....but got a load of abuse (on another forum not here) for that comment.......It made sense to me at the time...after all here is Rafa  on the hard courts but no Coach ie: Uncle Tony  ..-)  Yep he needs a break (fair enough).....but I don't agree with the Part-time coach thing......(Just me and my view)...I don't like the fact Tony is not with Rafa at Queens Club.....he has Lopez's old coach there instead.....I don't agree

Tony is there at all the warm up tourneys for FO but not around for the warm up for Wimbledon or US Open  ..-)

Just my views from my side  :)
I never thought he would win 4 French Opens - Roger Federer on Rafa

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #178 on: August 25, 2007, 11:10:03 PM »
Quote from: "Alison2006"
Quote from: "hercules"
anybody has any ideas as to what must the clay monster do to get a u.s. open title? and finally, can he ever win this title?

i hear roger just said in an interview that if he(roger) doesnt win it, he expects nadal to win it.

is that possible?


Rafa needs to have a better 1st Serve (and better 2nd Serve) As I have mentioned before (but my views are not taken well by many because I don't support Rog, but I am cool with that ) Got over that long ago  ..-)

Perhaps he should have a new coach (Which I have mentioned before.....but got a load of abuse (on another forum not here) for that comment.......It made sense to me at the time...after all here is Rafa  on the hard courts but no Coach ie: Uncle Tony  ..-)  Yep he needs a break (fair enough).....but I don't agree with the Part-time coach thing......(Just me and my view)...I don't like the fact Tony is not with Rafa at Queens Club.....he has Lopez's old coach there instead.....I don't agree

Tony is there at all the warm up tourneys for FO but not around for the warm up for Wimbledon or US Open  ..-)

Just my views from my side  :)


good post allison. i am inclined to agree but i also think the tony/nadal association is a match made in heaven. tony will always be by nadal`s side. family thing is so important to nadal. he gets true and honest support.

that said, there may be some drawbacks. uncle tony barely knows how to play tennis but he has been instrumental in molding nadal`s character and his game. it was him who told him to hit with his left hand when nadal was like 3-4 years old as it provided some advantages. it may not be a bad idea to get some coaching/help with the volley and the serve. djokovic is getting some expert advice on the net game form mark woodforde. hewitt worked for 3 months with darren cahill before the french open. some sort of part time help with the serve and the net game may work.

and the clay monster does need a little more assault minded approach to the game when playing on hard courts. you just cant log in 3-4 hours time and again on hard courts and expect to win titles. and besides, he hates these hard courts anyway as they hurt his knees and his feet. and they inhibit his movement.

Offline Alison2006

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« Reply #179 on: August 26, 2007, 05:59:51 PM »
I never thought he would win 4 French Opens - Roger Federer on Rafa