Author Topic: Clay Monster's Limitations  (Read 394597 times)

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Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #280 on: September 03, 2007, 12:52:13 AM »
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote
federer was just asked this very question: he was asked who would win the title if he was not to win it. do you know what his answer was? or do you even want to know?

i know you will come back and tell me all this is too confusing. roger federer said that he thought that nadal would win the title if he was, somehow, not to win it. now why do you think he said that? he knows nadal and his game better than anybody on the planet.

federer also added that he thought that nadal is lot better than djokovic on any surface. and i am not making this up. all i did was lay out some assumptions under which he could be in the finals he just might be. all that has to happen is for his knees to hold up and he needs to catch a clightly tired djokovic in the semis.

simpe stuff man. just ask roger federer. me, you just find too confusing.


Well, I gotta say(write) that Fedex's got me confused with this. I don't think he believes it. He knows, and WE KNOW that Rafa is not  one of the greatest harcourt players. I think Rafa may be better thank Djoker even on grass ( and still I'm not so conviced about this because the only match they had, Djoker was injured and retired), but here Djoker is showing better game than Rafa, so I don't Fedex thinks that this is true.


all good points sofico. it could be that federer has played nadal on various surfaces and has learned, first hand, about his abilities and talents. i am likely to listen to the man who knows and the man who knows is roger.

i think roger knows just how tough nadal is and can be and may have even more praise for his abilites and skills and his mental toughness after the last wimby final. i differ a little from what a lot of people say about nadal. i dont think he quite has the skillset and the game to be dominant on all surfaces and hard courts clearly give him the most trouble. he doesnt really have the goods. the serve could be better and the return could be a lot better. he wins because he can ususally run all day and can just outhustle you and outlast you. heavy topspin gives him plenty of margin so he ends up being quite consistent off the ground. vast majority of the time, he just digs in and fights. roger blows you off the court with all his talent and variety. clay monster just hangs in there and breaks your spirit until you are worn out physically and mentally. roger said this very same thing after the french open.

so roger is just going by how tough nadal has been and how tough he can be. it tuns out that he just be cant be counted out. we will see. i do believe if the knees get worse, all bets are off.

Offline sid

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« Reply #281 on: September 03, 2007, 12:55:17 AM »
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote
once again the assumption: he has a 4-1 record against ferru. ferru has no weapons but can run all day but he has just spent over 4 hours in beating nalby. also nadal well experienced on a big stage and is very mentally tough. if the knees hold up, he will win. it is that simple. you probably feel exactly the same way.


Actually, Ferru's only victory over Rafa was on hard. See, Ferru has more advantage than Rafa here.


Ferrrers win over Nadel was on clay,thay have played 5 times before ;-()
sid :)

Offline sofico

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« Reply #282 on: September 03, 2007, 12:57:33 AM »
Quote from: "sid"
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote
once again the assumption: he has a 4-1 record against ferru. ferru has no weapons but can run all day but he has just spent over 4 hours in beating nalby. also nadal well experienced on a big stage and is very mentally tough. if the knees hold up, he will win. it is that simple. you probably feel exactly the same way.


Actually, Ferru's only victory over Rafa was on hard. See, Ferru has more advantage than Rafa here.


Ferrrers win over Nadel was on clay,thay have played 5 times before ;-()
sid :)


oh my bad!  I just checked, you're right!

Thanks  :))

Offline sofico

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« Reply #283 on: September 03, 2007, 01:03:40 AM »
Quote from: "hercules"
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote
federer was just asked this very question: he was asked who would win the title if he was not to win it. do you know what his answer was? or do you even want to know?

i know you will come back and tell me all this is too confusing. roger federer said that he thought that nadal would win the title if he was, somehow, not to win it. now why do you think he said that? he knows nadal and his game better than anybody on the planet.

federer also added that he thought that nadal is lot better than djokovic on any surface. and i am not making this up. all i did was lay out some assumptions under which he could be in the finals he just might be. all that has to happen is for his knees to hold up and he needs to catch a clightly tired djokovic in the semis.

simpe stuff man. just ask roger federer. me, you just find too confusing.


Well, I gotta say(write) that Fedex's got me confused with this. I don't think he believes it. He knows, and WE KNOW that Rafa is not  one of the greatest harcourt players. I think Rafa may be better thank Djoker even on grass ( and still I'm not so conviced about this because the only match they had, Djoker was injured and retired), but here Djoker is showing better game than Rafa, so I don't Fedex thinks that this is true.


all good points sofico. it could be that federer has played nadal on various surfaces and has learned, first hand, about his abilities and talents. i am likely to listen to the man who knows and the man who knows is roger.

i think roger knows just how tough nadal is and can be and may have even more praise for his abilites and skills and his mental toughness after the last wimby final. i differ a little from what a lot of people say about nadal. i dont think he quite has the skillset and the game to be dominant on all surfaces and hard courts clearly give him the most trouble. he doesnt really have the goods. the serve could be better and the return could be a lot better. he wins because he can ususally run all day and can just outhustle you and outlast you. heavy topspin gives him plenty of margin so he ends up being quite consistent off the ground. vast majority of the time, he just digs in and fights. roger blows you off the court with all his talent and variety. clay monster just hangs in there and breaks your spirit until you are worn out physically and mentally. roger said this very same thing after the french open.

so roger is just going by how tough nadal has been and how tough he can be. it tuns out that he just be cant be counted out. we will see. i do believe if the knees get worse, all bets are off.


Well, I don't think he's all running and fighting.  He does have a great backhand and his shots are really good. His two-handed backhand is not terrible. And yeah, that's true, he can't be counted out.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #284 on: September 03, 2007, 01:13:28 AM »
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote from: "hercules"
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote
federer was just asked this very question: he was asked who would win the title if he was not to win it. do you know what his answer was? or do you even want to know?

i know you will come back and tell me all this is too confusing. roger federer said that he thought that nadal would win the title if he was, somehow, not to win it. now why do you think he said that? he knows nadal and his game better than anybody on the planet.

federer also added that he thought that nadal is lot better than djokovic on any surface. and i am not making this up. all i did was lay out some assumptions under which he could be in the finals he just might be. all that has to happen is for his knees to hold up and he needs to catch a clightly tired djokovic in the semis.

simpe stuff man. just ask roger federer. me, you just find too confusing.


Well, I gotta say(write) that Fedex's got me confused with this. I don't think he believes it. He knows, and WE KNOW that Rafa is not  one of the greatest harcourt players. I think Rafa may be better thank Djoker even on grass ( and still I'm not so conviced about this because the only match they had, Djoker was injured and retired), but here Djoker is showing better game than Rafa, so I don't Fedex thinks that this is true.


all good points sofico. it could be that federer has played nadal on various surfaces and has learned, first hand, about his abilities and talents. i am likely to listen to the man who knows and the man who knows is roger.

i think roger knows just how tough nadal is and can be and may have even more praise for his abilites and skills and his mental toughness after the last wimby final. i differ a little from what a lot of people say about nadal. i dont think he quite has the skillset and the game to be dominant on all surfaces and hard courts clearly give him the most trouble. he doesnt really have the goods. the serve could be better and the return could be a lot better. he wins because he can ususally run all day and can just outhustle you and outlast you. heavy topspin gives him plenty of margin so he ends up being quite consistent off the ground. vast majority of the time, he just digs in and fights. roger blows you off the court with all his talent and variety. clay monster just hangs in there and breaks your spirit until you are worn out physically and mentally. roger said this very same thing after the french open.

so roger is just going by how tough nadal has been and how tough he can be. it tuns out that he just be cant be counted out. we will see. i do believe if the knees get worse, all bets are off.


Well, I don't think he's all running and fighting.  He does have a great backhand and his shots are really good. His two-handed backhand is not terrible. And yeah, that's true, he can't be counted out.


nobody gave him any chance at all at wimby after they saw him get beat by mahut at queens. not one personn on the planet--probably not even federer back then--gave him even the remotest chance to be in the wimby final and then he had to play 7 straight days without a rest and showed up in the finals anyway. and he very nearly beat federer. all he lacked was a little better serve a little better return game we would be looking at a new wimby champion.

so anything is possible. we will just have to see.

Offline sid

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« Reply #285 on: September 03, 2007, 01:29:17 AM »
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote from: "hercules"
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote
federer was just asked this very question: he was asked who would win the title if he was not to win it. do you know what his answer was? or do you even want to know?

i know you will come back and tell me all this is too confusing. roger federer said that he thought that nadal would win the title if he was, somehow, not to win it. now why do you think he said that? he knows nadal and his game better than anybody on the planet.

federer also added that he thought that nadal is lot better than djokovic on any surface. and i am not making this up. all i did was lay out some assumptions under which he could be in the finals he just might be. all that has to happen is for his knees to hold up and he needs to catch a clightly tired djokovic in the semis.

simpe stuff man. just ask roger federer. me, you just find too confusing.


Well, I gotta say(write) that Fedex's got me confused with this. I don't think he believes it. He knows, and WE KNOW that Rafa is not  one of the greatest harcourt players. I think Rafa may be better thank Djoker even on grass ( and still I'm not so conviced about this because the only match they had, Djoker was injured and retired), but here Djoker is showing better game than Rafa, so I don't Fedex thinks that this is true.


all good points sofico. it could be that federer has played nadal on various surfaces and has learned, first hand, about his abilities and talents. i am likely to listen to the man who knows and the man who knows is roger.

i think roger knows just how tough nadal is and can be and may have even more praise for his abilites and skills and his mental toughness after the last wimby final. i differ a little from what a lot of people say about nadal. i dont think he quite has the skillset and the game to be dominant on all surfaces and hard courts clearly give him the most trouble. he doesnt really have the goods. the serve could be better and the return could be a lot better. he wins because he can ususally run all day and can just outhustle you and outlast you. heavy topspin gives him plenty of margin so he ends up being quite consistent off the ground. vast majority of the time, he just digs in and fights. roger blows you off the court with all his talent and variety. clay monster just hangs in there and breaks your spirit until you are worn out physically and mentally. roger said this very same thing after the french open.

so roger is just going by how tough nadal has been and how tough he can be. it tuns out that he just be cant be counted out. we will see. i do believe if the knees get worse, all bets are off.


Well, I don't think he's all running and fighting.  He does have a great backhand and his shots are really good. His two-handed backhand is not terrible. And yeah, that's true, he can't be counted out.


wimby final i did i picked him to get beat in the final or semis can not remmber witch ;-()
sid :)

Offline sid

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« Reply #286 on: September 03, 2007, 01:34:42 AM »
Iv just looked back on this,i had Nadal to lose in the semis,here is the link.
http://www.tennis4you.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6745&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80
sid :)

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #287 on: September 03, 2007, 01:41:29 AM »
Quote from: "sid"
Iv just looked back on this,i had Nadal to lose in the semis,here is the link.
http://www.tennis4you.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6745&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80
sid :)


well the bottom line is that he just cant be counted out and we count him out all the time. even johhny mac said the other day that nadal just cant be counted out, injured or not.

nobody ever thought he could be in 2 wimby finals but he was.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #288 on: September 03, 2007, 02:54:52 PM »
since we have a thread pretty much dealing with nadal, we may need a thread devoted to roger federer. he is special too.

i may just call it a "The Roger Federer Thread"

any ideas?

by the way, i think the clay monster is going to take down ferru in 4 tommorow.

Offline yellowball

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« Reply #289 on: September 03, 2007, 04:23:49 PM »
Quote from: "hercules"
Quote from: "sid"
Iv just looked back on this,i had Nadal to lose in the semis,here is the link.
http://www.tennis4you.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6745&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80
sid :)


well the bottom line is that he just cant be counted out and we count him out all the time. even johhny mac said the other day that nadal just cant be counted out, injured or not.

nobody ever thought he could be in 2 wimby finals but he was.



There is rarely a round of any tournament that there's not a big discussion about whoever Rafa is going to play next could take him out. "This is going to be a tough on for Nadal."  "He may not get by ______." And, of course, especially on hard court that's true, you never know. But, Rafa does so many things less well than other players, it's phenomenal that he can win as often as he does.. and HE DOES.

Rafa just won't take NO for an answer until it's over. He simply WILLS himself to win. I wish I had only a portion of his drive and determination   :\

Offline sofico

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« Reply #290 on: September 03, 2007, 05:11:16 PM »
Quote from: "hercules"
since we have a thread pretty much dealing with nadal, we may need a thread devoted to roger federer. he is special too.

i may just call it a "The Roger Federer Thread"

any ideas?

by the way, i think the clay monster is going to take down ferru in 4 tommorow.


why you say that? you seem so sure  ..-)

Offline yellowball

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« Reply #291 on: September 03, 2007, 06:30:40 PM »
Federer doesn't need a thread. Practically everything on the forum has a good deal of emphasis on Fed.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #292 on: September 04, 2007, 02:02:44 AM »
Quote from: "yellowball"
Quote from: "hercules"
Quote from: "sid"
Iv just looked back on this,i had Nadal to lose in the semis,here is the link.
http://www.tennis4you.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6745&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80
sid :)


well the bottom line is that he just cant be counted out and we count him out all the time. even johhny mac said the other day that nadal just cant be counted out, injured or not.

nobody ever thought he could be in 2 wimby finals but he was.



There is rarely a round of any tournament that there's not a big discussion about whoever Rafa is going to play next could take him out. "This is going to be a tough on for Nadal."  "He may not get by ______." And, of course, especially on hard court that's true, you never know. But, Rafa does so many things less well than other players, it's phenomenal that he can win as often as he does.. and HE DOES.

Rafa just won't take NO for an answer until it's over. He simply WILLS himself to win. I wish I had only a portion of his drive and determination   :\


agreed. obviously he has complete monopoly of all the significant tournaments on clay--monte carlo, barcelona, rome, and the french open--but does not have required or shall we say a more complete skillset to dominate on hard courts.

i am amazed myself how he is able to win on hard courts. he really is no match for federer on this type of surface but that wont stop him from trying. he has such a great attitude. i would say that his biggest asset is his athletic ability. and his second biggest asset is his mental toughness. the guy just does not know when or how to quit.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #293 on: September 04, 2007, 02:07:46 AM »
Quote from: "sofico"
Quote from: "hercules"
since we have a thread pretty much dealing with nadal, we may need a thread devoted to roger federer. he is special too.

i may just call it a "The Roger Federer Thread"

any ideas?

by the way, i think the clay monster is going to take down ferru in 4 tommorow.


why you say that? you seem so sure  ..-)


i am relatively certain on this one. ferru just does not have any big weapons to hurt the clay monster. ferru does have the following: speed, fitness, and a great return of serve. and he is fairly consistent off both wings.

nadal in 4 but he will have to stay out there for over 3 hours. hope his knees hold up.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #294 on: September 04, 2007, 10:37:37 AM »
its the last match on arthur ashe stadium tonight. any last minute predictions? i still tink nadal can take it in 4.

he may get chela in the next round and should have no problem with him at all if the knees are still doing good.

in looking ahead a lttle, a semifinal appearance is more than just possible.

Offline Alison2006

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« Reply #295 on: September 04, 2007, 04:32:39 PM »
David Ferrer was ask just after he beat Nalby, that he would be playing Rafa and asked about the match and Ferrer said something along the lines of "I am tired now (after 5 sets with Nalby), just hearing Rafa Nadals name makes me feel tired" lol

I just hope it a good match  :)
I never thought he would win 4 French Opens - Roger Federer on Rafa

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #296 on: September 04, 2007, 05:01:50 PM »
Quote from: "Alison2006"
David Ferrer was ask just after he beat Nalby, that he would be playing Rafa and asked about the match and Ferrer said something along the lines of "I am tired now (after 5 sets with Nalby), just hearing Rafa Nadals name makes me feel tired" lol

I just hope it a good match  :)


too funny alison. it is nearly impossible to beat the clay monster in a 5 set foremat. he is 49-0 in slams when he wins the first set. and he is 34-0 on clay in a best of 5 sets foremat. so all these guys know how tough it can be to beat him. you basically need a little help from him.

of course all this is out of the window right now since we know he is having problems with his knees and has not been able to practice much at all. his heavy topspin strokes require a lot of fine tuning. it is still nadal in 4 sets tonight if the knees are holding up.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #297 on: September 04, 2007, 09:13:52 PM »
great news: he says his knees feel a little better.

lets get ready to rumble. the road to semis just opened up today for the clay monster, thanks to monaco who kept the djoker out there for nearly 4 hours. moya will do the same and could even pick him off. if not, nadal will be waiting in the semis to pick him off.

exactly the scenario i laid out a few days ago.

vamos.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #298 on: September 05, 2007, 05:02:07 PM »
its back to mallorca for 2 weeks of rest and leisure and then he is playing in bangkock--the thailand open. i think blake took a title there last year over ljubicic if i am not mistaken.

any thoughts on this one? what business does he have playing in bangkock which is a lightening fast indoor carpet. we all saw that he  was just about floored last night. he started to cramp up everywhere--the legs, the hand, and fingers. and still has that knees issue going. the dude is not fit enough.

you get 175 points if you win and $76,000.00 which is pocket change for him. why risk making the injuries worse and be useless for the rest of the year. and on top of that, he will be lucky if he can make it past 2 rounds there. i dont get it.

it would be better to just recover fully and work on his game and his fitness.

Offline Alison2006

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« Reply #299 on: September 05, 2007, 06:00:16 PM »
Well I didn't get to see the match (or the flipping highlights)  :;:-|  So I cannot coment on the match

How did Rafa play anyone??

Well done to DF
I never thought he would win 4 French Opens - Roger Federer on Rafa