Author Topic: Clay Monster's Limitations  (Read 382579 times)

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Offline Tennis4you

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clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2007, 11:17:49 AM »
Quote from: "mogdesai"
Quote from: "kuyoungj"
Quote from: "Messagesent"
First day on here, and I find it amusing to see threads on "the clay monster" :)

Well, his return isn't the best in the world, only because he stands so far back that he opens up the angles for big servers.

I have to say though, in his match against Safin, he did a good job of coming in more on 2nd serves, which is a goal of his this year.  That's a big part of having success on hard courts - punishing 2nd serves, and I thought he did that well last night. . .when Safin wasn't doubling.

It was a point of discussion on the tennis.com board, but I think we all knew that Nadal would frustrate Safin.

Now that I've seen the match, I would probably pick Nadal over Safin any day of the week - I think Nadal is a matchup nightmare for someone with such little mental reserve as Safin.  Safin is the type of player who goes out on the court and sees how it goes - if he's hitting winners, he'll hit them all day.  What he doesn't do well, however, is hit a couple of big shots that should result in points, then hit that 5th one well.  On a level much worse than Federer, he tries for a bigger and bigger shot.


Well I wouldn't say he is at a level much worse than federer, cuz he has the talent, but yeah, he can't control himself.
He hits winner on and on when he can but then plays horribly the important points. He should learn when to hit the big shot and
seal the game.


I don't think Safin is at the level of Federer. Everytime he goes on the court, you don't know which Safin is going to show up. Ofcourse he has talents but what good is that if he can not produce it. Against Nadal he played great few times. He just goes out and make tons of unforced errors. He can beat top players just some time but that is it. I don't think he is going to win any GS anymore.


Bummer for Safin consistency does indeed make a huge difference.  If you look at all of the greats, they brought it day in and day out.  It is a shame, Safin should have more slams with the saparatic talent that he does have.

Welcome to the forums mogdesai!!!
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Offline jeffrx

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« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2007, 11:52:16 AM »
I see Nadal having a nice career.  His game is certainly taxing, but the guy has a great physicial frame to sustain all the abuse.  Even with the so-called bad knee, he chases down balls that would ordinarily be winners.

Nadal is very good for tennis.  Kids, especially, seem to like him alot.  I guess it's just the energy he brings.  Plus, his game is based on good point construction and rallying, which is missing from alot of today's players.
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Offline PopecrackzillionairI

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clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2007, 12:04:14 PM »
Yes, Nadal did look well enough for the circumstances last night.  He sometimes loses his second match when acclimating to a new surface, except for clay.  I do worry so much about my beloved Rafa today.  Last year, he had to retire against Hewitt @ Queens early, and this year, it was Mahut @ Queens.  Plus, this is the part of the schedule each year where he traditionally begins to show those chinks in the armor.  When you don't have a big serve on hardcourts, it makes things very, very difficult, besides being otherwise brilliant.  He actually looked rather smashing on hardcourts in January, in his first three matches, against albeit weak competition, but then fell off considerably, pulling up lame against Chris Guccione down under, prior to the AO.  Last summer, it was his third match on hardcourts in which he was thumped by Berdych.  Then the flip side, if he plays well, like in 05 in Montreal, winning one of his few hardcourt titles in recent memory, he generally has little in the tank for upcoming matches.  Many consider that stuff in the past, but even in March, Rafa had a great Indian Wells and then got pummeled by Djokovic the next week, as every match must exponentially weaken those sore feet and knees.  You don't get the sense that Rafa is really gearing up for a slam, like say, Roger, but more of the sense that he is just trying to survive out there.  At any rate, he doesn't seem to have a great deal of hardcourt tennis in him, so perhaps, if he did lose early here, he might be better off at The Open, where, hopefully, he will finally be able to compete with the other big boys.  Vamos Rafa!!!

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Offline yellowball

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clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2007, 01:21:30 PM »
Quote from: "huntingyou"
Hey old friends, it felt like home as soon as saw a "claymosnter" thread.......... anyways his return of serve for the most part was excellent, the point is to get it back deep and he did that, part of the reason why he broke Safin 4 times, anyways when was the last time Safin had a big O on hardcourts?

His slice needs work but for now he uses that shot to get back into the middle of the court when he is running towards the corners. I expect his forehand to be more of a weapon for today's match..Nadal has always been a slow starter, he gets better as he gets deeper in a tournament, 23-5 finals record says so.


So glad you're here, I always enjoyed your posts. You're right about Rafa being slow to start. I really hope he looks better today. I wish there was a bit more off season, except for the fact that I want to see the matches (I'm selfish). There's very little time to really practice and improve what he needs to. I think he tried yesterday coming into the net more (it didn't always work) but I hope during this hc season he improves to get in line for a great 2008.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2007, 01:26:06 PM »
thanks tennis4you.com for that warm welcome. and welcome mogdesai. the people here are just wonderful. they are polite and care a lot about tennis. :H

Offline OSU Buckeye

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clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2007, 02:15:55 PM »
Welcome mogdesai!  

If you are going to talk about Nadal's strengths I think you have to mention how well he watches the ball and how well he plays the big points.

Offline mogdesai

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« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2007, 03:27:15 PM »
Quote from: "hercules"
thanks tennis4you.com for that warm welcome. and welcome mogdesai. the people here are just wonderful. they are polite and care a lot about tennis. :H


Thanks hercules and tennis4you.com for welcome.
I do get a sense that people here are nice.

Offline FreeBird

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« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2007, 03:27:58 PM »
Quote from: "hercules"
thanks tennis4you.com for that warm welcome. and welcome mogdesai. the people here are just wonderful. they are polite and care a lot about tennis. :H


Yeah, it's a pretty polite place, but every site has its whipping boy, and T4U's is Buckeye.  Feel free to bash him as often as you wish, I could use a break.

 :)~
Good luck on the court is nice to have, but it's usually extraneous when playing against Baker.

Offline mogdesai

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« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2007, 03:34:35 PM »
Quote from: "OSU Buckeye"
Welcome mogdesai!  

If you are going to talk about Nadal's strengths I think you have to mention how well he watches the ball and how well he plays the big points.


thanks buckeye for welcome.
I do like the way Nadal plays every point. He is not going to give a point away, you have to get it.
Only thing I see that his style of plat (lot of grinding) is putting lot of toll on his body. To certain extent he is Muster and Chang.
Mathieu is giving him very good match.Nadal is on his way to winning 2nd set. Let us see what happens in the 3rd.

Offline OSU Buckeye

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clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2007, 03:37:46 PM »
Quote from: "FreeBird"
Quote from: "hercules"
thanks tennis4you.com for that warm welcome. and welcome mogdesai. the people here are just wonderful. they are polite and care a lot about tennis. :H


Yeah, it's a pretty polite place, but every site has its whipping boy, and T4U's is Buckeye.  Feel free to bash him as often as you wish, I could use a break.

 :)~


D!ck move!  Course, I guess I shouldn't expect any better from you!   ..-)

Offline gm3106

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Re: clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2007, 05:18:51 PM »
Quote from: "hercules"
here is a list of clay monster`s (nadal) limitations:

1. serve
2. return of serve
3. slice--it is useless
4. volley/net game--he needs to be more confident at being at the net to close/end points.

of these limitations listed, he can probably do wothout 2 and still dominate. first, he doesnt really need a big serve. if he could return with consistency and be somewhat aggressive with his return game, it will take a lot of pressure off that weak serve of his.

secondly, if you get to go in on your own terms, you dont have to be able to volley like roger or edberg.

he absolutely must develop a more effective slice and he has to find a way to return better. practice makes perfect.


I don't see how you can classify Nadal's ROS as a limitation when he is either first or second in almost all the ATP's ROS stats.

Offline kuyoungj

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clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2007, 05:57:16 PM »
Quote from: "mogdesai"
Quote from: "OSU Buckeye"
Welcome mogdesai!  

If you are going to talk about Nadal's strengths I think you have to mention how well he watches the ball and how well he plays the big points.


thanks buckeye for welcome.
I do like the way Nadal plays every point. He is not going to give a point away, you have to get it.
Only thing I see that his style of plat (lot of grinding) is putting lot of toll on his body. To certain extent he is Muster and Chang.
Mathieu is giving him very good match.Nadal is on his way to winning 2nd set. Let us see what happens in the 3rd.


I wonder why Monfils hasn't popped out yet in the discussion? Nadal? psh. he's nothing compared to how Monfils goes for everyball.
I once saw him while playing Baghdatis at the AO this year diving - yes, you heard me - diving for the ball. He lost the point though.
But my point is you cannot keep that up. Funny, though, Federer seems to get to most of the balls but with no sweat. So I guess you have to
read the game better, which comes with experience. I hope both players will learn to do that.
Federer = monster

Offline Tennis4you

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« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2007, 08:35:00 PM »
Quote from: "kuyoungj"
Quote from: "mogdesai"
Quote from: "OSU Buckeye"
Welcome mogdesai!  

If you are going to talk about Nadal's strengths I think you have to mention how well he watches the ball and how well he plays the big points.


thanks buckeye for welcome.
I do like the way Nadal plays every point. He is not going to give a point away, you have to get it.
Only thing I see that his style of plat (lot of grinding) is putting lot of toll on his body. To certain extent he is Muster and Chang.
Mathieu is giving him very good match.Nadal is on his way to winning 2nd set. Let us see what happens in the 3rd.


I wonder why Monfils hasn't popped out yet in the discussion? Nadal? psh. he's nothing compared to how Monfils goes for everyball.
I once saw him while playing Baghdatis at the AO this year diving - yes, you heard me - diving for the ball. He lost the point though.
But my point is you cannot keep that up. Funny, though, Federer seems to get to most of the balls but with no sweat. So I guess you have to
read the game better, which comes with experience. I hope both players will learn to do that.


You will never catch me diving for a ball on hard court, heck, for that matter, any court.  If I cannot get to it running I am not going to dive for it.  I prefer to stay vertical (what little I can) when playing tennis.
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Offline huntingyou

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clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2007, 08:54:34 PM »
Quote from: "yellowball"
Quote from: "huntingyou"
Hey old friends, it felt like home as soon as saw a "claymosnter" thread.......... anyways his return of serve for the most part was excellent, the point is to get it back deep and he did that, part of the reason why he broke Safin 4 times, anyways when was the last time Safin had a big O on hardcourts?

His slice needs work but for now he uses that shot to get back into the middle of the court when he is running towards the corners. I expect his forehand to be more of a weapon for today's match..Nadal has always been a slow starter, he gets better as he gets deeper in a tournament, 23-5 finals record says so.


So glad you're here, I always enjoyed your posts. You're right about Rafa being slow to start. I really hope he looks better today. I wish there was a bit more off season, except for the fact that I want to see the matches (I'm selfish). There's very little time to really practice and improve what he needs to. I think he tried yesterday coming into the net more (it didn't always work) but I hope during this hc season he improves to get in line for a great 2008.


Thanks! I was a little shock that Nadal kept hitting behind the baseline even though he had many chances to come in after his forehand when hit with that crazy angle......anyways today's victory wil boost his confidence and at least his groundstrokes are getting the practice for the perfect timing that clay courters need (topspin). When looking into Rafa's weakness in every match one can't igonre his opponent....Paul-Henry went for the fences, I was surprise to see him going for homeruns without making UFE.........so credit to him for giving Nadal a run for his money. I still expect to see his forehand to become more of a weapon in his next match........ hitting the lines as he did during IW early this year.

Offline Tennis4you

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« Reply #54 on: August 09, 2007, 09:04:51 PM »
Quote from: "huntingyou"
Quote from: "yellowball"
Quote from: "huntingyou"
Hey old friends, it felt like home as soon as saw a "claymosnter" thread.......... anyways his return of serve for the most part was excellent, the point is to get it back deep and he did that, part of the reason why he broke Safin 4 times, anyways when was the last time Safin had a big O on hardcourts?

His slice needs work but for now he uses that shot to get back into the middle of the court when he is running towards the corners. I expect his forehand to be more of a weapon for today's match..Nadal has always been a slow starter, he gets better as he gets deeper in a tournament, 23-5 finals record says so.


So glad you're here, I always enjoyed your posts. You're right about Rafa being slow to start. I really hope he looks better today. I wish there was a bit more off season, except for the fact that I want to see the matches (I'm selfish). There's very little time to really practice and improve what he needs to. I think he tried yesterday coming into the net more (it didn't always work) but I hope during this hc season he improves to get in line for a great 2008.


Thanks! I was a little shock that Nadal kept hitting behind the baseline even though he had many chances to come in after his forehand when hit with that crazy angle......anyways today's victory wil boost his confidence and at least his groundstrokes are getting the practice for the perfect timing that clay courters need (topspin). When looking into Rafa's weakness in every match one can't igonre his opponent....Paul-Henry went for the fences, I was surprise to see him going for homeruns without making UFE.........so credit to him for giving Nadal a run for his money. I still expect to see his forehand to become more of a weapon in his next match........ hitting the lines as he did during IW early this year.


Nadal volleyed well during the Big W and the FO.  I didn't see the match but if he was timid and not coming to the net at opportune times I am a little surprised.  Keep in mind though that Nadal has no problems with stay on that baseline and running his opponent to death.  Plus, if you throw someone out wide, sometimes coming to the net is tough, it opens it up for the opponent to hit back some nice angles as well.  But in the end, it might just show some of Nadal's discomfort with the hard courts still.  But as quick as he learns and adapts, I would say he will be very comfortable before the US Open.

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Offline huntingyou

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« Reply #55 on: August 09, 2007, 09:17:30 PM »
Thanks! This seem to be a great place to talk tennis......... you are totally right about Nadal hitting from the baseline.

Offline Tennis4you

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« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2007, 09:31:10 PM »
Quote from: "huntingyou"
Thanks! This seem to be a great place to talk tennis......... you are totally right about Nadal hitting from the baseline.


Thanks, we love our tennis here!  I am glad to see so many new faces this week, it is exciting.  :)
Good Luck on the Court!!!
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Offline yellowball

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« Reply #57 on: August 09, 2007, 09:37:17 PM »
Quote from: "jeffrx"
I see Nadal having a nice career.  His game is certainly taxing, but the guy has a great physicial frame to sustain all the abuse.  Even with the so-called bad knee, he chases down balls that would ordinarily be winners.

Nadal is very good for tennis.  Kids, especially, seem to like him alot.  I guess it's just the energy he brings.  Plus, his game is based on good point construction and rallying, which is missing from alot of today's players.


As far as I'm concerned, Rafa has already had a nice career! I guess the pros love the competition and love tennis, but if I were him I'd take my millions from my nice career and get the hell outta Dodge, the only thing more grinding than Rafa's style may be the life they lead.  Pete Sampras on TTC Center Court or something was talking about how he felt a lost after retiring, no discipline, no training, etc. Somehow, I think I could just go skipping down the road with my money, smiling from ear to ear.

Oh well, I hope Rafa doesn't retire for a long, long time. I want to see him get better and better.

Vamos   :yup:

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #58 on: August 09, 2007, 09:59:49 PM »
negative. clay monster is going to make a little history of his own at roland garros and wimby.

this is hardly the time to take his millions and run.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #59 on: August 09, 2007, 10:17:15 PM »
tennis4you.com thanks for the warm welcome all of us new posters/participants have received here.

i dont expect the clay monster (nadal) to make any waves on the hard courts. he does not have that many points to defend. the important thing for him is show a little improvement, stay healthy, and knock off roger if possible once or twice in these masters series events and basically set the table for 2008 to take over the #1 spot at the end of 2008. he does not have to win the u.s. open. the surface is the fastest of any slams so it wont be easy for him anyway. hard courts inhibit his movement and that is one of the liabilites he has to deal with. serve and return game could use some improvement as well. he is setting himself up to be #1 before long.

it is a tall task but he can do it. all that is needed for him to do in 2008 is the following:

1. run the tables on clay events--monte carlo, barcelona, and rome, and then bag the french open.

2. bag the wimby title

3. win at least 2 masters series events on hard courts and he will have taken down roger from the #1 spot. tall task but he may be able to pull it off.

he is also playing 2 other clay events next year: one in argentina and one in acapulco.