Author Topic: Clay Monster's Limitations  (Read 381518 times)

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Offline garagon01

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clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2007, 04:28:09 AM »
About Rafa serving faster his trainer explained some months ago that he served faster in AO but, since returns were faster and Rafa was not ready for them they decided to improve accuracy rather than speed.
I have been reading you people for a while in Tennis.com but for an estrange reason I was not able to log in there.

Offline kuyoungj

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« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2007, 08:50:24 AM »
Quote from: "garagon01"
About Rafa serving faster his trainer explained some months ago that he served faster in AO but, since returns were faster and Rafa was not ready for them they decided to improve accuracy rather than speed.
I have been reading you people for a while in Tennis.com but for an estrange reason I was not able to log in there.


Well welcome anyway garagon!
I also noticed Nadal never had aces, so my guess is he is just willing to hit a decent serve that will not surely be an ace, but will be good enough
that the opponent cannot hit a return ace, you know? So that he can take advantage of the return.
But I wonder why with all that muscle he fails to change his serve.
Federer = monster

Offline gm3106

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« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2007, 09:13:30 AM »
Quote from: "Tennis4you"
Quote from: "huntingyou"
Quote from: "yellowball"
Quote from: "huntingyou"
Hey old friends, it felt like home as soon as saw a "claymosnter" thread.......... anyways his return of serve for the most part was excellent, the point is to get it back deep and he did that, part of the reason why he broke Safin 4 times, anyways when was the last time Safin had a big O on hardcourts?

His slice needs work but for now he uses that shot to get back into the middle of the court when he is running towards the corners. I expect his forehand to be more of a weapon for today's match..Nadal has always been a slow starter, he gets better as he gets deeper in a tournament, 23-5 finals record says so.


So glad you're here, I always enjoyed your posts. You're right about Rafa being slow to start. I really hope he looks better today. I wish there was a bit more off season, except for the fact that I want to see the matches (I'm selfish). There's very little time to really practice and improve what he needs to. I think he tried yesterday coming into the net more (it didn't always work) but I hope during this hc season he improves to get in line for a great 2008.


Thanks! I was a little shock that Nadal kept hitting behind the baseline even though he had many chances to come in after his forehand when hit with that crazy angle......anyways today's victory wil boost his confidence and at least his groundstrokes are getting the practice for the perfect timing that clay courters need (topspin). When looking into Rafa's weakness in every match one can't igonre his opponent....Paul-Henry went for the fences, I was surprise to see him going for homeruns without making UFE.........so credit to him for giving Nadal a run for his money. I still expect to see his forehand to become more of a weapon in his next match........ hitting the lines as he did during IW early this year.


Nadal volleyed well during the Big W and the FO.  I didn't see the match but if he was timid and not coming to the net at opportune times I am a little surprised.  Keep in mind though that Nadal has no problems with stay on that baseline and running his opponent to death.  Plus, if you throw someone out wide, sometimes coming to the net is tough, it opens it up for the opponent to hit back some nice angles as well.  But in the end, it might just show some of Nadal's discomfort with the hard courts still.  But as quick as he learns and adapts, I would say he will be very comfortable before the US Open.

Welcome to the forums!!!


For some reason Nadal was standing further behind the baseline than he did at W and this was allowing PHM to attack him. He needs to correct this tendency to be successful on HC.

Offline gm3106

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clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2007, 09:15:12 AM »
Quote from: "kuyoungj"
Quote from: "garagon01"
About Rafa serving faster his trainer explained some months ago that he served faster in AO but, since returns were faster and Rafa was not ready for them they decided to improve accuracy rather than speed.
I have been reading you people for a while in Tennis.com but for an estrange reason I was not able to log in there.


Well welcome anyway garagon!
I also noticed Nadal never had aces, so my guess is he is just willing to hit a decent serve that will not surely be an ace, but will be good enough
that the opponent cannot hit a return ace, you know? So that he can take advantage of the return.
But I wonder why with all that muscle he fails to change his serve.


I don't really think muscle has that much of an affect on serve speed. It's more determined by a player's height (the taller the better) and their service action. Agassi for example was never going to be able to serve that big because he was relatively short for tennis player standards.

Offline OSU Buckeye

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clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2007, 09:26:12 AM »
Quote from: "gm3106"
Quote from: "kuyoungj"
Quote from: "garagon01"
About Rafa serving faster his trainer explained some months ago that he served faster in AO but, since returns were faster and Rafa was not ready for them they decided to improve accuracy rather than speed.
I have been reading you people for a while in Tennis.com but for an estrange reason I was not able to log in there.


Well welcome anyway garagon!
I also noticed Nadal never had aces, so my guess is he is just willing to hit a decent serve that will not surely be an ace, but will be good enough
that the opponent cannot hit a return ace, you know? So that he can take advantage of the return.
But I wonder why with all that muscle he fails to change his serve.


I don't really think muscle has that much of an affect on serve speed. It's more determined by a player's height (the taller the better) and their service action. Agassi for example was never going to be able to serve that big because he was relatively short for tennis player standards.


AA had a very solid serve.  I think the serve has much more to do with mechanics than height but height doesn't hurt.

Offline blisteringboom

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clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2007, 09:43:35 AM »
Quote from: "OSU Buckeye"
Quote from: "gm3106"
Quote from: "kuyoungj"
Quote from: "garagon01"
About Rafa serving faster his trainer explained some months ago that he served faster in AO but, since returns were faster and Rafa was not ready for them they decided to improve accuracy rather than speed.
I have been reading you people for a while in Tennis.com but for an estrange reason I was not able to log in there.


Well welcome anyway garagon!
I also noticed Nadal never had aces, so my guess is he is just willing to hit a decent serve that will not surely be an ace, but will be good enough
that the opponent cannot hit a return ace, you know? So that he can take advantage of the return.
But I wonder why with all that muscle he fails to change his serve.


I don't really think muscle has that much of an affect on serve speed. It's more determined by a player's height (the taller the better) and their service action. Agassi for example was never going to be able to serve that big because he was relatively short for tennis player standards.


AA had a very solid serve.  I think the serve has much more to do with mechanics than height but height doesn't hurt.


Karlovic *cough*
"So soon it parted , lifting itself into the air. It bent the world did. High was low , low was high ,and so he soared into the ground that was the sky." Tyler Vergil

Offline OSU Buckeye

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clay monster`s limitations
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2007, 10:00:27 AM »
Quote from: "blisteringboom"
Quote from: "OSU Buckeye"
Quote from: "gm3106"
Quote from: "kuyoungj"
Quote from: "garagon01"
About Rafa serving faster his trainer explained some months ago that he served faster in AO but, since returns were faster and Rafa was not ready for them they decided to improve accuracy rather than speed.
I have been reading you people for a while in Tennis.com but for an estrange reason I was not able to log in there.


Well welcome anyway garagon!
I also noticed Nadal never had aces, so my guess is he is just willing to hit a decent serve that will not surely be an ace, but will be good enough
that the opponent cannot hit a return ace, you know? So that he can take advantage of the return.
But I wonder why with all that muscle he fails to change his serve.


I don't really think muscle has that much of an affect on serve speed. It's more determined by a player's height (the taller the better) and their service action. Agassi for example was never going to be able to serve that big because he was relatively short for tennis player standards.


AA had a very solid serve.  I think the serve has much more to do with mechanics than height but height doesn't hurt.


Karlovic *cough*


Good one!   :lmao:     What about Roddick?  He isn't that tall, and still holds the record for fastest serve.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2007, 10:06:38 AM »
clay monster has hit serves as fast as 134 mph so we know he can put a little mustard on his serve if he wants to.

he just needs a little better serve than what he is bringing to the table. even he said after wimby that serve was the difference so he is aware of it. sooner or later, he is going to beef that serve up a little.

Offline blisteringboom

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« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2007, 10:19:02 AM »
Quote from: "OSU Buckeye"
Quote from: "blisteringboom"
Quote from: "OSU Buckeye"
Quote from: "gm3106"
Quote from: "kuyoungj"
Quote from: "garagon01"
About Rafa serving faster his trainer explained some months ago that he served faster in AO but, since returns were faster and Rafa was not ready for them they decided to improve accuracy rather than speed.
I have been reading you people for a while in Tennis.com but for an estrange reason I was not able to log in there.


Well welcome anyway garagon!
I also noticed Nadal never had aces, so my guess is he is just willing to hit a decent serve that will not surely be an ace, but will be good enough
that the opponent cannot hit a return ace, you know? So that he can take advantage of the return.
But I wonder why with all that muscle he fails to change his serve.


I don't really think muscle has that much of an affect on serve speed. It's more determined by a player's height (the taller the better) and their service action. Agassi for example was never going to be able to serve that big because he was relatively short for tennis player standards.


AA had a very solid serve.  I think the serve has much more to do with mechanics than height but height doesn't hurt.


Karlovic *cough*


Good one!   :lmao:     What about Roddick?  He isn't that tall, and still holds the record for fastest serve.


Oh , I totally agree from the mechanics point of view, but there is one thing you have overlooked *Muahaha*... flexibility.

If I am extremely flexible, like Roddick. Then my mechanics are that much more volatile .
"So soon it parted , lifting itself into the air. It bent the world did. High was low , low was high ,and so he soared into the ground that was the sky." Tyler Vergil

Offline OSU Buckeye

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« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2007, 10:21:19 AM »
Quote from: "blisteringboom"
Quote from: "OSU Buckeye"
Quote from: "blisteringboom"
Quote from: "OSU Buckeye"
Quote from: "gm3106"
Quote from: "kuyoungj"
Quote from: "garagon01"
About Rafa serving faster his trainer explained some months ago that he served faster in AO but, since returns were faster and Rafa was not ready for them they decided to improve accuracy rather than speed.
I have been reading you people for a while in Tennis.com but for an estrange reason I was not able to log in there.


Well welcome anyway garagon!
I also noticed Nadal never had aces, so my guess is he is just willing to hit a decent serve that will not surely be an ace, but will be good enough
that the opponent cannot hit a return ace, you know? So that he can take advantage of the return.
But I wonder why with all that muscle he fails to change his serve.


I don't really think muscle has that much of an affect on serve speed. It's more determined by a player's height (the taller the better) and their service action. Agassi for example was never going to be able to serve that big because he was relatively short for tennis player standards.


AA had a very solid serve.  I think the serve has much more to do with mechanics than height but height doesn't hurt.


Karlovic *cough*


Good one!   :lmao:     What about Roddick?  He isn't that tall, and still holds the record for fastest serve.


Oh , I totally agree from the mechanics point of view, but there is one thing you have overlooked *Muahaha*... flexibility.

If I am extremely flexible, like Roddick. Then my mechanics are that much more volatile .


I would include flexibility in with mechanics as you are supposed to bring flexibility with you on the serve for proper mechanics.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2007, 11:01:07 AM »
dont forget racquet head speed which is a given with him and some of the other top players. and he is a little better than 6 foot 1.

so he has the height, the technique (form and proper weight transfer and the like) and the racquet head speed. all the ingredients are there.

so he really can beef up his serve and use it to make the game a little easier.

Offline gm3106

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« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2007, 12:33:40 PM »
Quote from: "OSU Buckeye"
Quote from: "gm3106"
Quote from: "kuyoungj"
Quote from: "garagon01"
About Rafa serving faster his trainer explained some months ago that he served faster in AO but, since returns were faster and Rafa was not ready for them they decided to improve accuracy rather than speed.
I have been reading you people for a while in Tennis.com but for an estrange reason I was not able to log in there.


Well welcome anyway garagon!
I also noticed Nadal never had aces, so my guess is he is just willing to hit a decent serve that will not surely be an ace, but will be good enough
that the opponent cannot hit a return ace, you know? So that he can take advantage of the return.
But I wonder why with all that muscle he fails to change his serve.


I don't really think muscle has that much of an affect on serve speed. It's more determined by a player's height (the taller the better) and their service action. Agassi for example was never going to be able to serve that big because he was relatively short for tennis player standards.


AA had a very solid serve.  I think the serve has much more to do with mechanics than height but height doesn't hurt.


Yeah, Agassi had a solid serve. But my main point was more that he was never going to be able to consistently serve above 130mph.

Offline blisteringboom

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« Reply #72 on: August 10, 2007, 05:09:31 PM »
Quote from: "OSU Buckeye"
Quote from: "blisteringboom"
Quote from: "OSU Buckeye"
Quote from: "blisteringboom"
Quote from: "OSU Buckeye"
Quote from: "gm3106"
Quote from: "kuyoungj"
Quote from: "garagon01"
About Rafa serving faster his trainer explained some months ago that he served faster in AO but, since returns were faster and Rafa was not ready for them they decided to improve accuracy rather than speed.
I have been reading you people for a while in Tennis.com but for an estrange reason I was not able to log in there.


Well welcome anyway garagon!
I also noticed Nadal never had aces, so my guess is he is just willing to hit a decent serve that will not surely be an ace, but will be good enough
that the opponent cannot hit a return ace, you know? So that he can take advantage of the return.
But I wonder why with all that muscle he fails to change his serve.


I don't really think muscle has that much of an affect on serve speed. It's more determined by a player's height (the taller the better) and their service action. Agassi for example was never going to be able to serve that big because he was relatively short for tennis player standards.


AA had a very solid serve.  I think the serve has much more to do with mechanics than height but height doesn't hurt.


Karlovic *cough*


Good one!   :lmao:     What about Roddick?  He isn't that tall, and still holds the record for fastest serve.


Oh , I totally agree from the mechanics point of view, but there is one thing you have overlooked *Muahaha*... flexibility.

If I am extremely flexible, like Roddick. Then my mechanics are that much more volatile .


I would include flexibility in with mechanics as you are supposed to bring flexibility with you on the serve for proper mechanics.


But base flexibility can only bring you so far ?

With great flexibility and that extra bit of time for racket head acceleration, the service speed could vary positively, this is not including the extra push from the legs and torso.
"So soon it parted , lifting itself into the air. It bent the world did. High was low , low was high ,and so he soared into the ground that was the sky." Tyler Vergil

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2007, 09:40:22 AM »
weight training and flexibility training and the like are all given in professional tennis these days.

the serve just boils down to proper and efficient biomechanics and racquet head speed.

Offline Clay Death

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« Reply #74 on: August 13, 2007, 11:20:11 AM »
after watching the clay monster`s serve in montreal against djokovic, there can only be one conclusion:

a little better serve will go a long way for not only the hard courts but also his beloved clay. it will mean a few easy points here and there.

a weak serve is especially a huge liability on hard courts/fast courts. and then you throw in a inconsistent/weak/less than aggressive return game, the importance of a decent serve becomes even more critical. that is the reason why he struggles so much on hard courts.

translation: he has no choice but to work on that serve. and the return game. his 2 biggest liabilites on faster courts.

Offline PopecrackzillionairI

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« Reply #75 on: August 14, 2007, 05:32:14 PM »
Hercules,

Do they pay you per post?  You made like a hundred posts on here in less than a week, partner.  And only God and your Pope know what you have been up to otherwise.  The ripple must be treating you nicely, eh?

As far as Nadal needing to serve and return better...really?  Did it just dawn on you that 82 mile per hour second serves does not get it done on a real court??  

You are a master of the obvious!!  Why not just assume prior to typing that we already know?  What a kindness that would be.  But by all means, keep those meaningful predictions coming.  Still love Ivanovic over Henin at RG.  Classicly stupid in mythic proportion!!!  And from such an expert on clay court tennis such as yourself.  

BTW, Bjorn Borg called Nadal and told him to stop playing so many meaningless clay events.  And he also said that King Roger was the best to pick up a racket, despite the imminent demise you have penciled in for him.

The Pope is a huge Nadal fan, children.  Do not be fooled.  He just likes to give credit when and where it is due.

 ://
One day read the Cellestine Phrophecies-priests in black gowns were making their rounds and binding with briars my joys and desires-Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot-saw satan dancing with delight the day the music died-Gotta keep on dancin

Offline Alison2006

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« Reply #76 on: August 14, 2007, 06:22:26 PM »
Quote from: "PopecrackzillionairI"
Hercules,

Do they pay you per post?  You made like a hundred posts on here in less than a week, partner.  And only God and your Pope know what you have been up to otherwise.  The ripple must be treating you nicely, eh?

As far as Nadal needing to serve and return better...really?  Did it just dawn on you that 82 mile per hour second serves does not get it done on a real court??  

You are a master of the obvious!!  Why not just assume prior to typing that we already know?  What a kindness that would be.  But by all means, keep those meaningful predictions coming.  Still love Ivanovic over Henin at RG.  Classicly stupid in mythic proportion!!!  And from such an expert on clay court tennis such as yourself.  

BTW, Bjorn Borg called Nadal and told him to stop playing so many meaningless clay events.  And he also said that King Roger was the best to pick up a racket, despite the imminent demise you have penciled in for him.

The Pope is a huge Nadal fan, children.  Do not be fooled.  He just likes to give credit when and where it is due.

 ://


Pity the Pope does not agree on Contraception.......... ;-()  Goodnight    :))
I never thought he would win 4 French Opens - Roger Federer on Rafa

Offline PopecrackzillionairI

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« Reply #77 on: August 14, 2007, 06:38:33 PM »
Um, generally no, but this a very progressive pontiffship.  For example, The Pope always uses protection when with ladies of the night...

 ://
One day read the Cellestine Phrophecies-priests in black gowns were making their rounds and binding with briars my joys and desires-Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot-saw satan dancing with delight the day the music died-Gotta keep on dancin

Offline Alison2006

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« Reply #78 on: August 14, 2007, 06:53:25 PM »
Quote from: "PopecrackzillionairI"
Um, generally no, but this a very progressive pontiffship.  For example, The Pope always uses protection when with ladies of the night...

 ://


You are sick,  even using the name "The Pope"  is sick (for those who respect religion) Not sure who does on here....

But I have had enough of the "Pope"
I never thought he would win 4 French Opens - Roger Federer on Rafa

Offline SerenaSlam06

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« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2007, 08:16:37 PM »
I'm not even Catholic anymore, and "the Pope" and his use of third person are getting to me.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible.